| Author | Message | ||
     Tomtower |
Hi I have a 07 uly im getting ready to add a Drummer exhaust so im thanking on reflashing to the race ecm is this possible and what is the difference between the two or is this necessary?I also added a K&N air filter. Does any one have the files for the  ? Thanks | ||
| Blake |
If I recall correctly, the Drummer was designed to work best with the Race ECM. Reflashing your stock ECM to race ECM is possible using various aftermarket and shareware tools such as Direct Link or ECM Spy. In each case, you'll need to find the race ECM mapping in order to implement it. Might be more ethical, less illegal, easier and less costly to try to find a Race ECM. Note that if you install a new ECM, a TPS reset is indicated. Thanks Al.  (Message edited by blake on December 26, 2007) | ||
| Al_lighton |
Blake, you might want to fix your statement: "Besides being more legal and ethical, it might be easier and less costly to try to find a Race ECM. Flashing your ECM with the Race ECM map that you obtain from someone else IS SW piracy. It's not like Buell doesn't still sell that race ECM. Flashing a copy of that map directly takes money from Buell's pocket. We sell lots of different maps that we've spent a lot of time developing. The Buell race ECM map isn't one of them. It isn't ours to sell. Al | ||
| Reepicheep |
If you want to make it ethically "interesting", buy a non functioning race ECM, put it on a shelf somewhere and keep it forever, and flash your stock with a race ECM map you got elsewhere. In theory, you are simply media shifting. You have one "license" and you are using one copy of the map. | ||
| Court |
Take it to the next step . . . someone uses that ECM spy with no more technical saavy than one of us construction workers. . . grenades their Buell . . . and then skips into the dealer demanding warranty work . . . it's all good. | ||
| Ironken |
On the subject of piracy, how in the hell does all of these Chinese knockoffs keep being manufactured (term used loosely) without some patent infringement???? See Dynojet knockoffs. I can't wait to see when Hyosung (Korean) knocks off Buell and Harley. | ||
| Reepicheep |
You are free to build something that looks, acts, and smells like a dynojet, you just can't duplicate any of their software, any of their patents, or infringe on any of their trademarks. Probably not a lot of things in a Dynojet that are patented. The origin of patent law was "for the public good". The idea is that if you are willing to make all information about your product freely available to the public, then you are granted exclusive rights to make the thing described in that patent for a fixed period of time (16 years? Can't remember.). After that period expires, then anyone can make it. In order to be "patentable", something should be new, novel, and non obvious. Obviously, there are tons of problems with this. On the "public good" side, the patent office grants patents willy nilly, and lets it get worked out in the courts. About the worst way I could think of to do it, but on the other hand I can't think of a better way that would not introduce new problems. And on the down side for makers, 16 years (or whatever it is) isn't long for some things given current regulatory quagmires and processes. The example I recall hearing about is Proctor and Gambles non caloric fat substitute (Olestra). They were 12 years into the regulatory battle and it had *still* not been able to hit the market, and the "Center for Science in the Public Interest" (which has nothing to do with science or the public interest) knew they had to just keep up a stall and win on a battle of attrition. You missed a few steps Court, they would have grenaded the engine, then put the ECM back to stock, then gone to the dealer for warranty work, right before spamming every Buell Internet forum on the planet with message after message about how "Buell better stand behind their bikes!". | ||
| Mikej |
TomTower, there are folks who play with maps on a daily basis, and what I know from talking with them is that it involves more than just flashing a chip to get things to work how you want it to work with your configuration on your bike. Beyond that I know nothing. (Message edited by mikej on December 27, 2007) | ||
| Garyz28 |
Alright, I will admit that I had been thinking of just flashing the race ECM fuel maps to my stock ECM too. But you are right, that would be stealing. All I am really planing is an open air box and a Drummer slip on. Should I just buy the Race ECM or can American Sport Bike sell me a fuel map to optimize my setup? | ||
| Jlnance |
Take it to the next step . . . someone uses that ECM spy with no more technical saavy than one of us construction workers. . . grenades their Buell . . . and then skips into the dealer demanding warranty work . . . Court, let me argue with you a minute. I think there is something of a double standard here. People do all sorts of mechanical things to their bikes. It's even encouraged by the factory. Mechanical things intimidate the hell out of me. I remember the first time I broke off a bolt head, I about had a heart attack (I've since learned about Helicols.) I get the impression that most people here are very comfortable mechanically, and that traditionally that has been the case with people who have liked motorcycles. These same people tend NOT to be as comfortable with electrical issues. You can see this come up occasionally when someone wants to convert a FI bike to carbs, the great love of BMW's CANBUS, or comments on some of the fly-by-wire throttle systems. I'm on the other side of the fence. While I'm mechanically inept, I've got a masters degree in Electrical Engineering with controls course work, and 14 years experience as a computer programmer. If I had the source code for the ECM, my Uly would not surge at low speeds, I could fix that. This isn't because I'm smarter than the Buell guys, but because I could mess with it for a year or two, a luxury they don't have. The problem is I don't have the ECM source code. Why isn't it in the service manual next to the wiring diagrams? (I realize one of the reasons is legal issues.) There isn't really any fundamental difference between rejetting a carb, which is a common and uncontroversial activity, and reprogramming a fuel map. There does seem to be a huge difference in attitude about doing it though. As computers get cheaper and cheaper, more functionality will move from a mechanical realization into a software implementation. In theory this will make bikes MORE customizable than they are today, as modifying software is easier than modifying hardware. But that is not going to happen if people accept the idea that the computer is a black box that should be hidden from the owner. | ||
| Mikej |
I thought someone had already reverse engineered the earlier XB software, I suspect some are already at work deciphering the current software. I suspect it is more from a desire to help their bikes run better than it is from a desire to save a few dollars. Correct me if I'm wrong. (Message edited by mikej on December 27, 2007) | ||
| Garyz28 |
I don't think the issue here is whether on not it's OK to reprogram your ECM, but rather is it OK to make a copy of someone else's fuel maps/software and use them without paying for them. You can't just photocopy hard parts and put them on your bike, but you can just copy software. | ||
| Bad_karma |
This is the KNOWLEDGE VAULT isn't it?Winter draws a vacuum. Joe (Message edited by bad_karma on December 26, 2007) | ||
| Jlnance |
I don't think the issue here is whether on not it's OK to reprogram your ECM, but rather is it OK to make a copy of someone else's fuel maps/software and use them without paying for them. Oops, I wasn't clear. You're right, there are two issues here. The one I was addressing was the idea that it's bad to mess with the ECM. | ||
| Id073897 |
If Buell's maps become Al's maps by improving them, then Buell's maps consequentially become your maps by ... Regards, Gunter | ||
| Court |
No argument from me. . .
BOTH remapping and re-jetting void the warranty. The key here is understanding what "void" means. The typical internet mindset is some sort of a mano y mono stand off between customer and factory. Nothing of the sorts should be inferred. In the big world of actions and consequences it's is not so much that the factory is "voiding" your warranty. . . in fact, you, fully aware of the constraints and terms of the warranty have voluntary chosen to forfeit any claim you have under the warranty. Again . . that's not bad. The last Buel I bought never got started. It was uncrated torn into every component part, flywheels sent to Truett and Osborne, cylinders to Hemi-Design, stuff to zippers etc and $14,900 (plus the cost of the bike) later went back together. I knew, I'd read the warrant since it is a two party contract to which I am one of the parties and as such there is no parole evidence. . . it is what it says it is . . it can be no more or less than it says in writing. I knew damn well when I modified the bike from it's "federally certified" configuration that a risk transfer (that's kinda an insurance concept, but beyond the scope of the instant discussion) took place and the risk of a failure transfer from the factory to Court. I'm cool with that. My gripe (and I don't loose a lot of sleep over it, I admit) is the folks who remap, rewire, rework and THEN have a problem and piss and moan when Buell balks at paying for it. To me that's less a warranty issue and one of basic honesty. Bottom line is that if you want to retain the warranty coverage (I could care less but recognize it's a personal choice) don't modify the bike. Court | ||
| Jlnance |
Bottom line is that if you want to retain the warranty coverage (I could care less but recognize it's a personal choice) don't modify the bike. I agree completely | ||
| Bombardier |
Warranty differs from emissions in the above. If the manufacturer can prove that the modifications performed caused the fault then they will not be liable to rectify the fault at their cost conversely the owner also may be required to prove that the modifications did not cause the fault depending on the legislation. If you change the jetting and this results in different emmisions then you are liable to answer to the regulating authority. It does not become a warranty issue until their is a claim of damage. With regards to copying software and selling it as your own, whether it be on an ECM or a CD, it is piracy. If you wish to modify your existing ECM for your own private use then it is of no consequence to Buell or anyone else. | ||
| Mesafirebolt |
I agree with Bomba, if you read carefully the copyright rules about software, CD's, DVD etc, you can even charge a fee for time and materials but you CANNOT charge for the information, as long as you give the information away FREE, you are not stepping on anyones toes or copyrights, patents etc. |
