| Author | Message | ||
     Ironken |
Californians get what they deserve. My only hope is that there is a right proper big one that provides some nice beach front property in Nevada. Damn, dude..... A little harsh, don't 'ya think? Great point, Dora! I am not an eco freak by any means, but, as I drop down the Cajon pass on my run to San Berdoo, you can see the smog, some days it's thick!!! Something had to be done. Hell, the company I work for has been purchasing hybrid locomotives for use in the harbor. Believe it or not, sometimes the smog will blow inland all the way to the Colorado river valley and it is said that on occasion the smog from the inland empire makes its way into the Grand Canyon. Some of these controls are necessary....my .02} | ||
| Slowride |
Ok, I was going to stay out of this but sometimes it is better to provide the truth than let those that don't keep assuming. Smog and the air in China are two different forms of pollution. The air in China is that way due to the 2 coal fire plants they bring online every week in an effort to supply power to the growing country. Not to mention the stripped mined mountains that now are nothing more than wind tunnels that channels their top soil into the cities. China has been screwing with Cloud Seeding to try and bring the pollution and winds down long enough to let the Olympics happen. Yet they don't address the massive coal fire plants they now have online. If I remember correctly China's total car population is less than CA, TX and DC's put together. Smog, well hell yeah it gets bad, but based on winds and atmospheric conditions will rapidly disperse and as we have seen many times present us with a clean slate, only allowing us to refill the air again with the pollution. The interesting thing is, the bulk of air pollution within the city's come from Diesel engines, generators, etc. The second form of air pollution actually comes from the tires of all the vehicles. As the tires wear, those particles become air borne. Lastly, it falls to the exhaust emissions. So although I find some of the DOT regs good, many others are nothing more than revenue generations. Anyone heard of the inbound Carbon Tax Credit systems based on Global Warming. | ||
| Buellgirlie |
yes and no, slowride. i've lived in beijing for a year. i don't operate totally on assumptions. i was there, breathing the sulfur, ammonia, etc. its factories. its coal mines. its construction. AND its cars. 1000 additional cars getting registered A DAY in beijing. all with more lax smog/emissions standards than USA/Europe. cloud seeding is spooky. they definitely don't have it figured out just yet. some craaaaazy storms this summer! i'm far from perfect, and definitely a performance enthusiast -- but definitely more aware these days. D (Message edited by buellgirlie on January 08, 2008) | ||
| Blake |
Micah, "The second form of air pollution actually comes from the tires of all the vehicles. As the tires wear, those particles become air borne." What is your source for that wild sounding claim? I know that you didn't make it up, but I've never ever heard such a thing before, and on teh surface it doesn't make much sense to me. Geez Jeremy! That was harsh. I like lots of folks in California, including the Governator and FMJ, and my buddy Jon, Al Lighton and family, Vik (Eeeeek), Alan (Choptop), Jerry Johnson, Jim (a4media) Armstrong, THE WOZ, and lots of other folks. Geesh. The communists will have their day soon enough.  (Message edited by Blake on January 08, 2008) | ||
| Sarodude |
I understand that we're all motorheads of some sort and we like to eff with our vehicles. But, at the end of the day, clean air matters. Last I checked, most people need to be able to breathe. It is irrational to be pissed off at at people trying to do something with fairly obvious large scale benefit just because it makes it less likely for us to endulge in our hobbies. Are these organizations perfect? F%^& no. Now, I hear about all manner of people have all manner of problems with CARB and its associated regulations. WTF, people. What about the bazillions of people who don't? Chrome valve cover trouble? Ya know what? I had a car with a hole in the muffler. The smog dude said the sniffer was detecting a leak in the exhaust. I mentioned that it was the muffler. "Are you sure?" So, he plugged the muffler hole, re-ran the test, and no bad sniffage. There are stories to support either side of the argument. Stop it with this Kalifornia Krap already - and essentially implying that all us commie liberals deserve whatever infernal Hell is deliverd unto us by Satan - or Cthulhul - or whatever. California is a beautiful and diverse place with beautiful (and I don't mean the Dr 90210 type) and diverse people. Rednecks. Beach Bums. Ski Bums. Desert Rats. Rodeo nuts. Motorsportists. Geeks. Actors. Musicians (and drummers - hah!). Forrests. Deserts. Beaches. Lakes. Mountains. Plains. Rivers. Small towns. Big Cities. Agriculture. Technology. Entertainment. Big business. Small business. Ethnic diversity. A state so diverse would likely have something for you to complain about. Don't like Big cities? Fire away. Couped up in a small town all your life and want to avoid 'em like the plague? Stay out of Cali. It's full of 'em. Hate cows? Bummer. Religion forbids the slughter of cows? Bummer as well. Hate the desert? Holy crap, dude. Stay out. Can't handle driving on icy mountain roads? Whoops. Be careful, Cali has those too. Do you hate racists? Do you hate other races? Either way, we can find something for you to hate. I choose to enjoy where I live. It happens to be California. I commute from our home in a small town (where it was snowing yesterday) to Downtown LA. It ain't a myth. And it's wonderful. Nothing beats the kindness and friendliness of my town - and the bustle and energy of downtown. It ain't perfect. Show me a state or country that is. It ain't just what you see on tv. -Saro (Message edited by sarodude on January 08, 2008) | ||
| Ironken |
I'm just taking a shot in the dark here, but, most performance accessories that would alter emissions compliance that I've seen state, "for closed course competition only," I don't see how DJ should be held liable if that were stated on their product. They have no control how the end user applies their product....... for Saro...I agree with you on Ca. some neat places. My bellyache with the state is how it caters to the minority......handouts, medical, etc, etc. Also their protection of these off the wall species, such as the very endangered Desert Tortoise... These animals are so endangered that more than a handful of my neighbors have them living in their back yards. I think that human rights should come before animal rights. | ||
| Slowride |
Buellgirlie, I certainly meant no disrespect to you, matter of fact I am envious of you and your travels. I would brave the air pollution just to visit China. I just get tweaked by all the fear factors going on with Global warming and the scare tactics they push on the public. This whole going green crap! It is all a way to increase taxes on made up bs. Blake, Long time no talk brother! Yeah I made it all up, I just wanted to see what my thoughts looked like on the web…… . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . You know, I came by that information in an article written about a study on road grime a couple of years ago. I did a search on Google at work one day and found several articles on it. I wanted to find a chemical to protect the truck from all the crap that gets flung up on it while traveling those GREAT TEXAS highways. It threw in some other reading material from a study of increasing asthma in children and adults as well as ties into the highway sweeper trucks and how they stir up the particles into the air. With the growing expanse of highways in the country it said that the concrete was actually causing temperature raises in the urban areas which in turned caused storms to increase in the summer months. These storms would then pick up the road grime and pump it into the atmosphere, etc etc etc Basically, it stated that it was about a 60 /40 split of tire disintegration. The tires are constructed in a way that as the layers break down due to heat and friction, some material will go airborne and other heavier material drop off the surface. They also sited brake dust from cars and trucks as contributing to the over all air pollution. | ||
| Court |
>>>>i'm far from perfect, Perfect . . . stellar qualifications amongst this group! It's nice to have you home. I lived in CA (Manhattan Beach, Marina del Rey and Coronado) for a total of 3 years. My youngest works in Beverly Hills and just bought his first house . . . It's a wonderful place and, just like any other from Beijing to Budapest, has it's unique problems. My bet is you'll be part of some solution. . . at the very least . . . you'll make the state look nicer! Welcome back! | ||
| Diablobrian |
California certainly has it's good points, or I wouldn't have stayed as long as I did. I was just trying to show that this kind of abuse of power by the smog/CARB agencies is nothing new. I was also stopped on Palomar mountain on more than one occasion to check my motorcycle muffler(s) for the "not for use on pollution controlled/highway vehicles" stamps. By chance (the Yoshimura pipe on my GSXR was made before they mandated the stamp) I avoided the large fines I saw levied on other riders at the time. The fact I still had mirrors, and turn signals (that even though they were stock they measured to be sure they were far enough apart and had dot imprints in the lenses) on my bike probably didn't hurt either. I also saw, at those same stops, riders getting tickets for translucent blue or red wind screens based on the idea that in traffic light from a vehicle behind the rider could shine through the screen leading oncoming traffic or a vehicle in front of the rider to believe that it was an emergency vehicle either trying to pull them over or trying to get by. Of course none of that was harassment, these were public servants protecting us from..... something.... and the generation of revenue had nothing to do with it. If you believe that I have this great bridge for sale that I'll give you a great deal on..... Dynojet knows what the average Californian knows, that fighting the CARB costs obscene amounts of money and during the interim the ruling they made is treated as law and unlike criminal law in environmental law you are guilty until you prove your innocence. So you will rack up huge legal expenses and a lot of time fighting an uphill battle, or you can take the option they always offer of paying a fine (that does nothing to clean up the environment) and knuckling under so that you can maintain the privledge of driving, or in Dynojet's case doing business. Remember when they extorted Jesse James not that long ago? He offered to make the bikes they listed in the paperwork compliant, but they didn't want that....they wanted $$$$$$ http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=entertai nment&id=4977150 But....it's for the children....yeah, right, who do I make the check out to again? FWIW I think I remember reading a report that cited the La Brea tar pits as the number 1 generator of smog in the Los Angeles basin a few years ago, but I could be mistaken. | ||
| Slaughter |
Random thoughts (end of day at work) The "race use only" stickers do not make you (as a manufacturer) exempt. They still show up on the street in motorcycles (rumor has it there are one or two Buell race modules on the street - think about that). There WERE Powercommanders with "Race Use Only" stamps - and damned near ALL ended up on the street. As I understand it, Penalty is $10K PER installation: an ECU - $10K and pipes is $10K - add air intake: $30K remove the charcoal canister - $40K. My S3 mods could have cost a dealer $40K if I hadn't done them in the garage. If you are riding NON DOT/NON EPA pipes, ECU, intake, etc - you may be facing impounding... there's a reason I've kept all my stock stuff. Those are penalties for dealers as I understand things. The penalty for individuals is just impounding. Saro (and others) are right - I also agree that we need clean air. I remember being unable to stomach visiting my childhood buddy when his family moved to Pasadena and we could rarely play outside in the late 1960's - there's no denying that it HAS made a difference. Meanwhile, it'll be even more interesting to see how it will affect racing. There's a huge move afoot to REQUIRE green stickers for ALL racebikes - as are required for off-road. 2 stroke racers would have limited season. It's gonna get interesting. I'd rather see emissions based on pounds per seat-mile. More seats, more allowed. Busses and rail transportation would be most "favored" - eventually we'll have a very hard time arguing in favor of private transportation. Ultimately banning all private transportation WILL within one generation mean an INCREDIBLE increase in overall efficiencies, reduction in "greenhouse gases" and HUGE conservation of energy. I say that until we have the courage to end/ban private transportation, we're not serious about energy, pollution or global warming (as defined to be "caused" by carbon emissions) | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Geez Jeremy! That was harsh. Mostly tongue in cheek. There isn't a fault line that runs along the Nevada border strong enough to drop CA into the ocean. Pity. A majority there are leftist lunatics. The rest simply hold their noses and take it. Eventually, they can no longer stand it and they get out. | ||
| Reindog |
Geez Jeremy! That was harsh. I like lots of folks in California, including the Governator and FMJ, and my buddy Jon, Al Lighton and family, Vik (Eeeeek), Alan (Choptop), Jerry Johnson, Jim (a4media) Armstrong, THE WOZ, and lots of other folks. Geesh. The communists will have their day soon enough. Hey you forgot to include me: reindog/forger/NastierHomer! Not everyone here is a commie pinko. Some of us are quite conservative, thank you very much, but we are inundated by wacko representatives in the State legislature. But no worries... what happens in Kalfornia usually infects the rest of the nation eventually. Dora: welcome to San Francisco. We were there for three days before New Years. It is an incredibly beautiful city to explore and even better on a motorcycle. If you haven't done so already, take a walk along the shore at Crissy Field to the Golden Gate Bridge. I am always mesmerized by the people and the beauty whenever I go down there. I lived in SF for seven years before heading down to San Diego. See if you can find the second "Crookedest Street in the World" which virtually has zero cars and certainly NO tourists. (Hint: think Portrero Hill). | ||
| Pwnzor |
It will be interesting to see how they eventually implement smog checks on bikes in the next few years here. I've got the race kit on my XBR, and I sold my stock pipe to Odie so I'm starting to think I should pick up another one on Ebay before they become more "valuable". Californians deserve what they get, huh? So I guess Katrina victims deserved what they got. And the tsunami victims. And anybody else in the path of circumstances they can't control. You're right, I do deserve whatever I get, because I believe in personal accountability. | ||
| Etennuly |
HTFU! It seems fitting for where the subject of this thread has gone. | ||
| Danny_h__jesternut |
When the dionasurs roamed the earth it was all nice and steamy hot. The earth was a tropical rain forest. Adam & Eve were nakid in the garden. No need for frickin winter coats & hatz. What major disaster turn this rock into a half frigeded waste land? Was it a natrual accurance or an accident? Jest maby the earth is naturaly returning back into what it was long long ago. (hot, sweet and sticky) BRING ON GLOBAL WARMING. | ||
| Doerman |
So, I lived in Salt Lake and that's where I experienced the worst pollution. During the month of January and part of February nature puts a lid over the valley and keeps all the gunk in. When I lived in Cincinnati, the shit in the air could be pretty bad as well. Both were worse (at times) that the worst around here (except when the forest fires rage), so CA regs must be doing something right. But, I wonder where I can get a stock S1 pipe in case regs would require me to have one. I'm wondering what the Europeans will do after a while. They seem to have fallen in love with diesel cars and it shows. Soot and gunk everywhere in their bigger cities. There is so much soot generated that it accumulates on the glaciers in the Alps and causes melting. We all worry too much tho.. as this cartoon illustrates: http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/end | ||
| Ironken |
A majority there are leftist lunatics And that would differ from your right wing lunatic bullshit in what way? | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
And that would differ from your right wing lunatic bullshit in what way? WE at least have the common courtesy to set up our militia camps and religious indoctrination centers in states with low electoral college counts.  | ||
| Ironken |
Now this is where we agree....guns are a good thing to have. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Keep 'em close, but keep 'em hidden.  We just build bunkers full of MREs and 75lb bags of rice awaiting the last installment of the Left Behind series. | ||
| Pwnzor |
at last count I had 680 MRE's between my house, my brother's and my mom's. No expiration date on those babies, just keep 'em in a cool dark place and they pretty much last forever. I eat one every 6 months or so, just to check the freshness, and it never seems to change. I carry one in the bottom of each saddlebag on road trips, just so I'm never stuck without food. BNC masks, ammo, all manner of various supplies stocked to the hilt at all times. What, me worry? I figure Jesus makes his comeback around 2035, give or take a few years in either direction. I'll be on hand to watch the godless cretins scrambling around repenting and recanting... wait a minute, that's a sin, isn't it? I'm supposed to try and save people when I see them going down the crooked path... I'll think it over while I'm eating some delicious beef stroganoff, seasoned with the tiny bottle of Tobasco sauce and a brownie for dessert. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I don't keep MREs on hand, but I do stop by the army surplus store and pick one up from time to time and eat it. Does that make me a sick person? | ||
| Hexangler |
A little color for all you haters out there (seeing how this thread has been hijacked), I'll share a photo that I took in our fine State just two weeks ago. Bird of Paradise, outdoors, Anaheim stadium, California. Hex  | ||
| Blake |
Great, I now owe Tom/Reidog/Forger/NastierHomer/Treiner/"TheOtherBl ake" and Steve an apology for forgetting them in my list of not too distasteful people in California. Sorry guys, my bad, you too are atop my list of swell folks in California. Probably a bunch more too. Dora even lives there now. And I've grown partial to the Pwnzor fellow too, not even having met him in person. Great photo Hex! | ||
| Blake |
Oops, and of course Saro, and Ed (EZBlast) Zick our own infamous Thumpaholic. Then there is JVV, and Rex, but Rex now lives in Arizona, so I guess I may be okay with Rex. I have a dear aunt and cousin who live near San Diego. Remind me to never again start listing the folks I like. There are too many and it's too tough for my brain to accurately recall. Ask me who I despise anytime though, that's a very short list or at least one that's easy to generalize.  | ||
| Metalstorm |
It truly is a beautiful state. It's just run by folks who believe they know what's best for everyone so they have taken it upon themselves to save us from ourselves. The funny thing is that they are always surprised & confused by us self thinking folk who challenge their regime..er..politics. The cost of living sucks. The price of gas sucks. The congested traffic sucks. The "needing a permit just to take a dump" sucks. (slight stretch of the truth but only the slightest of slight) But: This is where my friends are. This is where my family is. This is where my best and worse memories lie. This is where I learned to be me. This is where I live. | ||
| Court |
Dora: Ya wanna reconsider? You could go back to China for a couple years, I'll straighten out California and drop ya a text message when I've got it ready. Alternatively, you could take up temporary residence in Texas. You'll find it far more forgiving, no one has to explain how the food you eat was grown by people earning a fair wage and living on non-meat diets and it has a gorgeous landscape. Sorry about the whole California thing if i'd known you were coming I'd have had it ready. I'll clean it up an soon as possible. Court | ||
| Metalstorm |
I'll clean it up an soon as possible Let me know if you need help | ||
| Lovematt |
I have to say I was a little pissed off reading this from our brothers and sisters in the USA but then again they are entitled to their opinions. In the case of cost of living, fuel, and emission requirements...I do agree with what they say...but that does not correlate with every aspect of California. In traveling through just about every state and province of this country, I have found things I did and didn't like about each one. I could see for a number of states that they would be preferable to live in depending upon one's situation and desired lifestyle. I don't know for sure where I will be into the future but it is nice to know what my options are. All I can say is that in some respects, having lived in California has taught me to live within some fairly restrictive rules when it comes to motorcycling. I look forward to the easing of those rules should I decide to live in another state...and that situation along might even be enough to drive me to move somewhere else...who's to say. Now...I do have a car that is older than I which allows me to pump up the performance aspects but I still get nearly 20 MPG on the freeway on a fairly built Chevy SB 350. But then again I ride my motorcycles most of the year and am lucky to put 3000 miles a year on the car. Both of my bikes are guaranteed to get 40 MPG or more so I feel I am doing my part. To each their own... | ||
| Ryker77 |
"Show me a state or country that is. " I like Kentucky. Very few illegals. Proud and honest Americans. Even the cashiers at Wal-Mart are nice. Very little traffic. And housing prices are great. I'd be damned to Live in a state that would cast me tripple for the cost of the same house, unless I got paid tripple. |
