| Author | Message | ||
     Doerman |
Buell has a home run in the 1125R. No doubt about it and they are to be lauded for bringing such a phenomenal bike to the market. I can not begin to describe how enjoyable this bike has been so far. The most enjoyable bike I have the pleasure of owning of the 20 or so bikes I have bought in my lifetime. I do see some weaknesses around the launch of this bike. Although I do not expect Buell to comment on my points, I would hope they would listen and improve. 1) Delivery schedule. Initial delivery of the bike was spotty and dealers were left without answers as to why the bike was delayed. We eventually found out that some components were delayed from the suppliers causing production difficulties. That is unfortunate and often not avoidable. The issue I have with it is clear communication to the dealers so the dealer can set correct expectation for their customers. I do believe some potential buyers walked and went to another brand after getting no clear idea as to when the bike would be delivered. 2) Documentation. I think the ball has been dropped in producing the service manual. It is now going on 3 months since the first bike showed up in the dealerships. There is no manual available yet. It does not hurt us owners near as much as it must be a problem for the techs in dealerships. As far as I can gather, the dealers do not as of this date know when a manual will be available. I hesitate bringing my bike into the dealer when they don’t have the roadmap for working on them. 3) The “oil level check” issue. It took far too long to get the facts out. I do not expect BadWeB to be the primary venue for announcing such information, the dealers would be. Seemed to me they were just as much in the dark as we were for a while. 4) Infant care. In all fairness, that was a concept discussed here on BadweB and there has been no announcement from BMC that such a program was ever in place. That said, if it were in place, it does not seem to have functioned well as evidenced by two instances discussed at length here on BadWeB. When lemon laws are looked at actively as an alternative that might indicate that an infant care program, if it ever were in place, is not functioning. 5) Dealer tech training. The anticipation was set to have techs trained before the arrival of the first units. In some cases I believe that happened in other it did not. Instead of relying on dealers to send their techs to Wisconsin for training perhaps it would have been a better idea to train them regionally. Send a road crew out and hold a training session at a local Marriott or something. Alternatively, use digital media (internet, CDs, streaming video) to get the job done. 6) Service parts availability. The common service parts should have been snapped up by dealers immediately after the delivery of the first unit(s). I have no idea when oil filters were made available through the HD system, but it took a while before it was available at the local dealer. Many of these issues come down to communication. BMC can not solely rely on BadWeB to reach all owners. I suggest that the “owners section” might be such a place for BMC to share common information and owner/shop manual errata correction. Asbjorn (Message edited by doerman on February 21, 2008) | ||
| Nickcaro |
+1 | ||
| Spatten1 |
On the infant care comment: Court mentioned that Badweb represents about 5% of 1125 owners. That would be a multiple of 20X the number of bikes we know about. Even if the electrical and fuel pump issues are at a much smaller rate in the "rest of the world" outside of badweb, it could still easily be 10X the number of bikes to chase after. Buell may have their resources tapped supporting the biggest dealers or biggest concentrations of "teething" issues and we may not have a clue about those efforts. I figure if this is, in fact, 5% of the 1125 population, then they are doing a lot of field work now and we have no idea what it consists of. All speculation, but seems to make sense to me. | ||
| Ccryder |
It's real easy to make comments and guess' about what can be seen through our "keyhole" view. Once the door opens up and we can see the whole "great outdoors" we get a better idea of how complicated, or uncomplicated, the issue really is or, isn't. I'm waiting for the "Pros-That-Know" to reduce the data and arrive at the solution(s). IMHO, Buell does a great job at this type of investigative work. Time2See Neil S. | ||
| Spatten1 |
CC, in principle I agree 100% with you. Problem is, we are never given more than the sliver to view, so people are left to speculate. The more open communication is, the less people speculate. I'm sure they are VERY busy right now. Even when a problem is found, QC must be addressed, as well as suppliers and possibly designs/specs. I don't envy the Buell techs and engineers right now. I've had that job, flying around fixing production issues, and it's very nerve wracking trying to make everyone happy. | ||
| Doerman |
Totally agree Neil. My point could be summed up in one word: Communication And then again, I have only personally experienced point 1) and 6), the rest is hearsay from BadWeB. If they have documented issues, get it out on the owners section instead of relying on dealers and Customer Service reps. Scott, BadWeB represents 5% (According to Court) of the owner base out there. Although I think the representation might be higher when sliced down to only 1125R owners. I don't believe linear (%) math can be used to extrapolate. Statistically, the margin of error as to how many units are having problems is quite high I'd suppose because the sample size is small. Oh well, that's just splitting hairs on my part anyway. | ||
| Spatten1 |
I agree about linear extrapolation, which is why I cut the rate in half and attempted to put in a disclaimer. Statistically we are about 1/2 way to a reliable sample size. | ||
| Doerman |
 I tell you Scott... We both revealed ourselves. I fully admit to being an engineer and I think you might be one as well.. | ||
| Ccryder |
Scott: Ain't it fun to have that "Kick Me" sign on your back LOL! Part of our inability to see the whole picture is our venue, BWB. Being in the manufacturing/ engineering profession for 30+ years it has amazed me the tools we have come up with in order to keeps things from biting us in production. Being too experienced at DFMEA and PFMEA, things still get past us and rear their ugly head once out the door ;+{ Such is life in the adult world. Where and organization can shine is how it reacts to these issues. That is what I am sitting back waiting to see. Let the show begin, where's my popcorn????? Doerman: You can extrapolate steam tables but, this type of data cannot be extrapolated. Hmm, 1/2 way to a reliable sample size? I don't remember how many BWB have chimmed in that they have 1125r's but, with the number of anomalies that have been noted I would guess that our sample size would be somewhere between 60 and 90. Later Neil S. p.s. me too plus a greenbelt w/o his minitabs to play with! | ||
| Spatten1 |
The last time I looked at the reporting thread there were 15 owners, either 7 or 8 or which had some sort of electrical issue. I just remember it was almost exactly half. My degrees are actually in economics and finance, but I have had an engineer title and been lucky enough to design and refine production products in the automotive world. I've also been unlucky enough to run around the country solving problems (to be truthful, trouble shooting was my favorite job if my ass was not on the line at the time). Buells attract engineers and engineering minded folks from what I've seen on this site! | ||
| Spatten1 |
The popcorn comment is nuts-on right now for me too. As was the XB, the 1125 is a huge leap for Buell. I'm very curious to see how any production quirks are addressed. | ||
| Court |
I agree 100%. The communication has SUCKED. There existed an opportunity to do things better than ever. It slipped away. It would be preposterous to **assume** that posting something, particularly under some clandestine cloak, on badweb (or any website) could be construed and having been communicated. Last year how many folks were on the spreadsheet to attend Homecoming? I think it was a fraction of the 387 in attendance. A rough, but telling, metric. Buell has the ability and the know how to cure this. We dabbled in some new things in 1998 and were slapped down for fear that Buell using some innovative techniques would "make HD look like they were not modern" (or words to that effect). Buell can do better. The 1125R is a marvelous motorcycle that is going to bear the consequences of some of this poor communication. You know me . . . . always the "company line". Court | ||
| Bobup |
"I agree 100%. The communication has SUCKED. 'snipped' You know me . . . . always the "company line". Court company line....doesn't sound like it in this post.....LOL bob | ||
| Jlnance |
3) The “oil level check” issue. It took far too long to get the facts out. ... 4) Infant care. ... there has been no announcement from BMC that such a program was ever in place. I've made this observation before, but it bears repeating, and will hopefully make it back to BMC. Buell has a great and well deserved reputation for listening. If only they were as good at talking. How much difference would it make in peoples attitudes if there was a section on Buell's website where you could read messages like "We have seen some 1125r charging system issues. We have two engineers investigating this and expect a solution by April." Would this not make everyone happy? Would it not make you a loyal customer for life? Would this not truly be different in every sense? I've raised this issue before, and the response was along the lines of "they can't do that, the lawyers won't let them." I don't find that answer inspiring. Part of a lawyers job is to point out liability exposure issues. They are always going to want people to keep their mouth shut about everything. Someone else's job is to weigh the risks and benefits of different courses of action, and decide which risks are worth taking and how to mitigate them. If the type of communication I've alluded to was desired by everyone up the chin of command to the HD CEO, a way would be found to make it happen. I hope the communication opens up. Buell is a company with enthusiastic and loyal customers. That is priceless, other companies would kill for that. And from my perspective as an owner, I love it. I feel like I'm part of the Buell team. But when I'm kept in the dark, it makes that feeling go away. | ||
| Doerman |
Very well said Jim. And I think the door has not closed on Buell's opportunity to start communicating. I think back on the picture that was taken in the factory with everybody present when the first 1125R rolled off the line. Those faces all told me full dedication to the best job possible. All of them caring enough to make the very best product. I think the communication issues (breakdown) lies somewhere between these fine folks and the owners. There's where the breakdown is. To me, it is sad that such a barrier exists and perceived necessary to uphold. Asbjorn | ||
| Bonjoxb12s |
"I think the communication issues (breakdown) lies somewhere between these fine folks and the owners. There's where the breakdown is." My personal opinion is that the missing link would be the individual dealers. If they lack the passion to go after the parts, info etc. then the consumer will always be lacking. Just my two cents. | ||
| Doerman |
There is that Sean. But in my case, the dealer is on top of things. I got a letter in the mail today from my dealer with a copy of the service bulletin for the oil check procedure. They sent me that information without delay. So where has it been in the meantime. | ||
| Spectrum |
Not sure if this is representative of all dealers, but my dealer is as much frustrated if not more than the customers. Last time I was in there, there was a group rant about the lack of communication and documentation around the 1125R. (Message edited by spectrum on February 22, 2008) | ||
| Dynasport |
I am VERY hopeful that Buell can come up with solutions to whatever problems the 1125r is having. I have never owned a sportbike, but I am greatly tempted by the 1125r. It will be next model year before I am truly in the market for a new bike, but I am closely watching this situation to determine if I want to give the 1125r a try. I was in a Yamakawazuki dealership this past week talking to hardcore sportbike riding salesman. He currently rides a GSXR1000. He was very curious about the 1125r. This bike has the opportunity to bring a whole new demographic into the Buell family. But these problems have to be resolved or the bike will be written off. Just going into a HD dealership is a hurdle for many of these guys. I am really pulling for Buell to work all this out. | ||
| Tpoppa |
As a Project Manager, I wonder who was the PM that was in charge of the 1125r release. There are some pretty basic misses here. In my industry (Custom Commercial Software) we frequently release software to 10,000+ users. We can have the best software application in the world, but without Communication, Documentation, Training, AND Support the rollout will be a Train Wreck! | ||
| Vincent |
Irregardless of the fact that yes there is indeed electrical problems with this bike, you should look at the severity of this problem. My bike is one with a gremlin but truthfully, I don't find it serious enough to classify this as a catastrophic failure on the part of the Buell crew or feel the need to leave it at the dealer till resolved. I still ride every day to school and It hasn't left me stranded yet. If I was to rate the severity on a scale of 1 to 10, I would have to rate it at 1. But please do acknowledge that I am in a warmer climate and do not need the assistance of heated gear. The only serious problem recorded here on BWB that I know of was with Baggermike and He uses Heated Gear. I have read a few posts on here and they said that the stator was to blame which was my speculation to begin with. Now where was the stator installed? Were the engines shipped statorless? Either way, I'm sure everyone at BMC is gainfully employed on resolving the issue and that it will be resolved very soon. So -1 on the electrical standpoint. +1 with documentation due to the much anticipated releasing of the manuals. These should have already been assembled and shipped the same day of the bikes. We may have to wait just as long for the manuals as we did for the bike. Delivery gets a -1. If they rushed it more, what other problems would there be? Both +1 for tech training and service parts. Had to wait two weeks for filters and still waiting on a mirror. Bottom line, I love this bike, It is everything I thought it would be and more and will wait patiently for BMC to resolve these issues. My girlfriend says I spend more time with "Baby" than I do with her. I sense jealousy, but she will never tear us apart. By the way, Texas A&M Engineering student looking for internship over here for all of you engineers out there. Just a shameless plug. But seriously.  | ||
| Zac4mac |
Vincent - I work at what used to be Valleylab, in Boulder. We're called Covidien now, but we make electrosurgical equipment. I'm in R&D and I saw yesterday that there are several openings for summer interns in R&D, ME and also EE I think. Gig 'em. TAMU 73-74, Hotard Hall. Zack I sure wish the Anonys would come back and say WTF is going on. Silence sucks. | ||
| Jpfive |
I agree with Vincent that the electrical problem is not a deal breaker. I can appreciate that in sport bike design, the generator size is a bit of a balancing act. Higher output equals more drag and flywheel effect - and dyno figures are important to marketing and perception. The Aprilia forum used to be full of these threads, with aftermarket stators and regulators common upgrades. My bike is fine now, after the stator replacement. It still produces less than 14 volts when hot, but is sufficient to charge the battery, and carry heated grips. Since the replacement, I can tell that the high setting on the grips is actually hotter than the low. The Buell factory people are monitoring the condition of my bike - I stay in contact by phone and email. They have been great. There may be a redesign of the stator, but I don't want them to over design the electrical system beyond the stated purpose of the bike. The aftermarket is for that. Jack | ||
| Nicozzzz |
I agree too on the failure of communication,and outside US also at the failure of marketing.. "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched 1125R bike live alone in small corner of a big HD stand, in the most important european show in Milan I watched stupid visitors engaged in attach stupid advertising sticker everywhere on that bike for joke. cause in buell corner the stuff forget to leave someone to check and show the bike to potential customer. I saw horrible bike of other brand showed better than a space ship with a lot of special effect and a lot of wonderful little bit naked girl around and over(so people doesen't really understand that the bike was horrible ) All those moments will be a lost of time, and I fell me like tears in rain. is Time to change something in this way can't work." till now in italy we have no Idea about the bike arrival , all the dealers said "bike is coming" , but really is not possible to fix a date , I suppose that probably Buell are fixing the bugs before to start to ship , warranty and tech trouble solution from US to europe are much more slowly and expensive . I suppose that at this point is better for the imagine of the company that will solve before to release the bike in europe. but meanwhile potential customer are going on other brand available and working like 848 or ktm sbk( minimum 2 years before they will change again bike). so now we are in march , i suppose in 3 months at the 25th homecoming ( i hope to be there) or at last till the end of july new 2009 models will be showed. I don't think I would like to buy again a 2008 models . people like me are truly making himself a lot of questions about it and ask to a dealer is like to to try to speak with my tv. the main question is "wait 1125R is the right choice" usually I put 16.000 km each years on my bike buell I can live without bike and I can live without buell .. Is funny cause in 1125R I saw al my wishes about a Buell till I become a buell biker but coming back to the time in july, when company allow me to believe that touch my biker dreams is possible. I remember that there was a lot of movement around the bike name.... finally I found it the appropriate bike name: is "Godot" I' little be afraid cause I don't see many solution my uly is in selling and she got to much mile to keep it another year after 2 s model and an uly i'm little bit bored about xb line ( is not my only feeling, after 7 years of the same model is normal.. I think for a old customer to feel the needing to change look ). sorry if my post seems a infant crying but today I went to the bank for work there was 14C° a nice sun , and a lot of bike around .. and my feeling was to come to the car in the first bike shop and bought one .. a biker without a bike is like a bird without wings I really love this brand , the way of thought, the buell concept and I can only be grateful for the fun that i get from buell's bike . and for the wonderful people and world that I m been introduced choosing this brand. but i'm little bit worried seems that buell stuff is so busy to work on the bike that forget that they have to sold it . | ||
| Doerman |
It breaks my heart to hear about what happened to the 1125R at the Milan show. Unattended, mocked and neglected.  Sigh... I hope you get your hands on an 1125R Angelo. You are a passionate Buell fan and deserve one sooner rather than later. Once you get one, it will not disappoint you. This piggybacking on HD for distribution, marketing and customer support is simply not working. I suspect, from my high and mighty armchair, that were it up to the BMC employees information would go out freely and in a timely fashion. HD is not an ogre, but it is too "big and corporate" in its approach to business to understand the needs of a mid size and rapidly growing subsidiary like BMC. Probably a good thing that I don't work for BMC at this point in time. If I did, I'd probably stage an internal revolt. Rage against the machine.  | ||
| Dalton_gang |
Nicozzzz & Doerman, Had the same feelings a couple of weeks ago at nice dealer party. Don`t get me wrong here, I am very happy with the dealership that I bought my bike from and would recommend anyone near enough go visit all the people at Mid America H D & Buell. But, They had 2 or 3 1125r`s hidden in the service bays during the party where no one could see, touch, or even sit on one. At first I thought that maybe I didn`t see one on the floor because they had like 350 to 450 people there, a band, fully catered, etc.. and I just didn`t see it the first time through with every thing going on. After talking to a couple of people I realized that the 1125r isn`t considered quite as important as the rockster and the nightster. Personally I think they would have sold one or two that night if they had displayed one over by the nightster. Oh well?  | ||
| Bonjoxb12s |
Dalton, your probably correct but around this area money talks and all else....... well you get the picture. It's a catch 22.... they will promote them if they sell, but they can't sell if they aren't shown. | ||
| Towjam |
I sure wish the Anonys would come back and say WTF is going on. A little birdie told me that future Anony posts will be few and far between (if at all).  | ||
| Court |
Angelo: It tears me up to see what the Buell Distribution folks are doing in Europe and outside the United States. Your tale is a sad one made worse by our friendship and my knowledge of your passion for Buell. Trubu' 6800 is on of the most enthusiastic Buell groups in the world. The Milan show and the EIMCA show are the biggest of the big. The folks marketing the Buell should be ashamed and I fear they are trying to do to the 1125R what they did to the TT. I could not sum it up better than Asbjorn did. The system is broke. There are easy solutions within reach. The folks at Buell are capable, I'm less confident of the folks at HD/Buell distribution who appear to struggle with small details. Just imagine if you were a Euorpean trying to come to the United States for Buell Homecoming and wanted to know the schedule . . . hey . . . wait . . . YOU ARE! I may be wandering through Italy for a Buell gig, then to London and back to NYC with the wild Australians and a romp road trip acrross part of the USA to East Troy . . if you want, I'd be pleased to show you how to "Do Buell Right". I know.  If there are further Anon posts it's a safe bet they will not be from current HD or Buell employees. | ||
| No_rice |
"If there are further Anon posts it's a safe bet they will not be from current HD or Buell employees." and why is that? did i miss something some where along the line? | ||
| Nicozzzz |
thanks guys and special thanks to court , I really hope to get the bike soonest ;) |
