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Xbimmer
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 02, 2008 - 05:39 pm: | 
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Dr Greg, here you go:
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Dentguy
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 02, 2008 - 08:28 pm: |
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Sorry guys but having that type of water in the primary case is not normal at all. There is nothing in the primary that will manufacture water inside the case. There is no by product of combustion to create water either. You have water getting in either by the clutch cable or the primary vent tube. There is no other place for water to enter. Find it and get it fixed. That type of water will cause damage without a doubt. You will have premature bearing failure if you don't get it addressed
Thunderbox,
I agree with most of what you said and the problem is probably with the clutch cable. It was on mine. It is a problem some have had. But water can get in other ways. Keep in mind that if it has a vent tube then air will get inside. Air that contains moisture and air that can be cold. Introduce that to warm environment and you get water. What about a hydraulic brake system. It doesn't manufacture water, but the fluid absorbs water from the atmosphere. The water then lowers the boiling point and deteriorates components. So we should change the fluid now and then. Take out that cold beer and put it on the counter where it is 70 degrees and we know it makes a puddle. Leave a bike outside where it is cold then bring it in to a warm environment or ride it a short distance enough times and you get some water in the fluid. Not trying to argue but it can happen. Now where is that beer I left out?
Dr_greg, Does it still make the noise?
(Message edited by dentguy on January 02, 2008) |
Thunderbox
| | Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 08:45 am: |
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Dentguy I am not trying to make an argument but if I remember correctly the Uly has silicon brake fluid. Silicon brake fluid is not hydroscopic and it will not absorb water. Other brake fluids not made from silicon are hydroscopic and over time will absorb enough water to rust up the brake internals. On the other hand the fluid in the primary on the Uly is not hydroscopic either and from the pictures posted here, there is a lot more water in that oil than can be explained by some condensate getting in through the vent tube. On my M2 the vent was under the fender and in the rain water would get in and make it's way to the primary chain case. I used to get this type of sludge in my primary. Rerouting the vent tube and ensuring the end was facing downwards eliminated the problem completely. As I said in my previous, if this is not corrected it will lead to premature transmission failure, no ifs buts or ands. |
Treadmarks
| | Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 11:58 am: |
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Good pic Xbimmer.
JP cycles makes a rubber Azz valve that fits on the end of the vent hose, and lets the pressure escape, but wont let water get back in. It is like the rubber water drain on the bottom of the air box on enduros and dirt bikes. I think I will invest in another one for the Uly, the are only like 14 bucks. |
Arcticktm
| | Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 12:26 pm: |
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Not sure how we got onto brake fluid, but I thought H-D quit using that lousy silicone (DOT 5.0) brake fluid years ago?
That stuff is thick as syrup (and purple, if I recall), and not at all good for a performance bike, IMHO. It could also be a nightmare to bleed, since it was so thick. Seems to outweigh the positive of it not being hydroscopic.
Dentguy - I think your condensation model is backwards (but point is still valid and taken). Warm air can hold more moisture than cold air (hence high humidity in the summer, drier air in the winter), so when warm air is trapped inside a sealed container (gas tank, etc), and then cooled down, moisture can drop out.
The beer bottle gets moisture on the outside because the warm air in the room gets cooled immediately around the bottle, and that boundary air drops out some moisture. |
Dr_greg
| | Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 03:00 pm: |
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Dr_greg, Does it still make the noise?
No, it doesn't. I did drain the tranny, put in some synth ATF, went for a good ride in 35F weather (couldn't get it that hot), drain (boy that ATF is watery), refill with Formula+ (may not be the best stuff but it's worked OK), then ride.
This morning on my commute I thought that I hadn't heard the "whining" sound so I paid special attention. Nope, it's gone. Quiet as normal now. Life is good again. Temp sposed to break 50F tomorrow so a good long ride is in order! |
Etennuly
| | Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 04:02 pm: |
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I'm sorry, but I cannot help myself.
Everytime I see the title of this thread, given the gutters most of us reside in, I keep reading it as "Creamy paste on inside of crotch cover". 
Now I know that ain't right, but I have a feeling that I am not the only demented person to have read it that way. Are there any other semi-mental pervs here that see things in your head that are just wrong, or was I being baited? |
Treadmarks
| | Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 04:59 pm: |
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heh heh heh
u said creamy crotch.... |
Etennuly
| | Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 06:28 pm: |
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Wasn't me ya perv! |
Dentguy
| | Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 09:12 pm: |
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Thunderbox,
I wasn't talking about the brake fluid in the Uly specifically, but it is Dot 4. It was just an example to point out that water can get in other ways. But I understand your point.
Arcticktm,
Not sure how it was backwards.Don't read too much in to the comments I made. I wasn't trying to get all scientific. It wasn't about hot or cold air holding more moisture. It was just a point that air can get in that holds moisture. Warm and cold air. Maybe my cold air in wasn't understood. Cold air in the tube, cold tube inside, cold fluid, cold gears (bike sitting out in the cold). Introduce to warm environment, warm air in the tube, warm air around the fluid, warm air around the gears = boundary air dropping moisture. Just like you said warm air + cold parts = moisture.You are making my point. It was just an example. Maybe a little extreme and not understood. By the way, it was 40 degrees and raining here the other day. Plenty of humidity in the cold air.
(Message edited by dentguy on January 03, 2008) |
Bugnut
| | Posted on Friday, January 04, 2008 - 12:28 pm: |
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Speaking of riding in the cold and shutting the bike down before it's truly warmed up, has anyone thought of blocking the scoop for the oil cooler? Kind of like truckers will do on the front to reduce the amount of cold air. I know my past couple of days riding haven't pushed the oil temps to 190 in the swing arm. Even a 30 minute, 80 mph ride just ain't warming her up. Fan does come on post shut down, but oil temp seems low after the ride. Just wondering if some of our issue is water condensation from a "warm" engine, then running less and less warm to the point of not boiling off that condensation. Here in chilly Florida we get moisture, with the added cold snap this could have been where my moisture came from. Just trying to think outside the box.
Also, after my primary oil change, shifting seems so much smoother. No strange noises, or missing neutral. Even with my chilly weather (I know, it ain't really that bad, but we're used to much warmer temps - not 30 degrees!).
Mike |
Ftd
| | Posted on Saturday, January 05, 2008 - 02:04 pm: |
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Excuse me as I am a chemist and can not help myself. This has always been a pet peeve of mine. I know hydro makes sense but
it is hygroscopic not hydroscopic. |
Jlnance
| | Posted on Saturday, January 05, 2008 - 02:59 pm: |
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It's OK, Ftd, just don't get damping confused with dampening or Blake will come down on you.  |
Xbimmer
| | Posted on Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 12:38 am: |
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The non-hygroscopic nature of silicone brake fluids doesn't mean that water doesn't enter the system. It just means that the water doesn't become absorbed into the fluid itself.
This is as bad or worse than water in DOT 3/4 fluids, since the water has to go somewhere. With DOT 5 silicone the water collects at the lowest recesses in the system in globules that will corrode components even quicker.
Worse than that, continuous hard braking and/or repeated braking at altitude with silicone fluid containing water causes the water to boil off, creating gas in the system and guess what? A brake lever that suddenly will pull to the grip with no braking power whatsoever.
I ran that crap in my airhead for a couple of years, never again.
Just change brake fluids and trans oils and engine oils with the best you can afford and often, your machine will thank you! |
Dr_greg
| | Posted on Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 02:00 pm: |
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has anyone thought of blocking the scoop for the oil cooler?
Yes, the thought has occurred to me. My 1992 Ducati 900SS (also air/oil cooled) would not warm up enough during my commute to burn off the condensate in the oil, and I've heard of folks blocking off the oil cooler.
So, just stuff a rag into the Uly oil cooler scoop? I guess I should make myself an oil temp dipstick so I can check things...
P.S. To all of you obsessed with "creamy paste" in various places...shame on you! |
Bugnut
| | Posted on Monday, January 07, 2008 - 03:19 pm: |
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Dr Greg,
Talked with an old schooler this weekend and he said the same thing. Block it or the engine will never generate enough heat on cold rides. Figure if there is no thermostat between the cooler and engine, cold oil just keeps going 'round. I'm a little hesitant, but I have been keeping an eye on my modified dip stick / thermometer to feel my "short" rides just don't cut it for heat generation when it's "cold" out. Yea, it feels warmed up and the frame gets warm, but the temp gauge just doesn't confirm it. I may try on the next cold snap we get here in Florida. May be a year or so!
Mike |
Bearly
| | Posted on Monday, January 07, 2008 - 07:17 pm: |
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That's right rub it in. |
Florida_lime
| | Posted on Monday, January 07, 2008 - 07:44 pm: |
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OK, since you asked nicely...
Today I was able to switch back to my usual RSTaichi perforated leather jacket for my ride to work, instead of the Fieldsheer Gore-Tex job I had to wear during our cold snap last week.
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Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Monday, January 07, 2008 - 07:57 pm: |
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P.S. To all of you obsessed with "creamy paste" in various places...shame on you!
Yeah, I'd be more concerned about creamy paste on the outside of my clutch cover. |
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