| Author | Message | ||
     Ferris_von_bueller |
I'm beginning to consider the possibility Rocket suffers from multiple personality disorder, although, in his mind, he probably doesn't feel he's suffering. That's ok, some of us are. | ||
| Molly_hatchet |
yes sometimes other boards can be a little harsh..i was kicked off of sport twin dot com my third day....but on others u can find a good debate on bikes look wise performance and everything else..the new honda CBR100RR has generated the same type of buzz on their boards and in the press...thats why i linked that above thingy....i dont like the new handa im warming up a bit but not enough to buy one i dont need another once of power or a pound or two less...u ask 10 different honda owners how they like the new 1000 and i bet u get just as many differing answers as u do about the 1125R ...for me i think the euro's are gettin some pretty cool stuff a lof of naked fighters...the new CBR retro thing is bad ass imo...time will tell if the new buell can do the busa and overcome bad looks with performance... | ||
| Pwnzor |
As for bikes, is there anyone alive that doesn't recognise the superb looks of an MV F4? I, for one, don't find a sheet of plastic very attractive. It's not what I'd call ugly, but it sure ain't pretty.  Now, this is pretty.  Yeah, I'm biased. So what. | ||
| Molly_hatchet |
now see this is a good debating platform right there...i see fine art and mechanics in both of those bikes the MV and the XB..i doubt u will find many MV owners using their bikes as a platform to make a part of themselves as did pwnzor,,that is a damn nice ride u got there...the MV also a darn nice bike...lots of expensive bits...the XB says a lot more about the owner is most prob a part of him...i see some rich guy owning the MV while i see a hard working guy that loves his bike almost as much as his kids in the XB...but thats just me...now if i was a rich guy..id have both and still be an @sshole..but id have nice bikes  . | ||
| Rocketman |
The MV design is testament to my point about the shape of a Coke bottle being instantly recognisable as a shape that everyone finds attractive. Put it another way. If the MV was exhibited in an art gallery visited only by people with no interest in bikes, I would wager it would be hard to find anyone who could not view it and deny its beauty. If we took that stunning XB above and conducted the same experiment, I doubt it would convince everyone of its beauty. That is because the XB lacks one area of design that the MV has, and it's what makes anyone, not just bike fans, see the MV as an instantly recognisable thing of beauty, just like the shape of a Coke bottle does. Rocket | ||
| Ceejay |
But therein lies the problem Rocket-in reference to motos when considering beauty and eye of the beholder, who really cares what those that aren't willing to lay down thier hard earned money think? | ||
| Frankfast |
The Art of the Motorcycle exhibit of a few years ago may support Rockets view that there is truth in what is considered universal beauty in motorcycle design. The bikes in that exhibit were chosen based on "technological innovation, design excellence and aesthetics, and social function. All of the motorcycles in the exhibition are a product of one or more than one of these criteria". Yes, there was a Buell, a RS1200. There also was a V-Max. At the Guggenheim in NYC, I believe the public was welcomed as they entered by a MV F4. | ||
| Court |
. . . . if you only knew. | ||
| Molly_hatchet |
i think the XB is just a purty as the MV...im betting the MV wouldnt take a day to day thrashing nearly as well as the war horse XB..being able to stand next to and touch the MV last year at the IMS it had a do not sit on placard a very big one next to it...the XB on the other hand was all about the please sit on me....so ya the MV is no doubt a work of art ..but i aint ridin no mona lisa home in the rain... | ||
| Mainstreamer |
If you did not see 'The Art of the Motorcycle' you missed our on something very special.Take a look here: http://www.guggenheim.org/exhibitions/past_exhibit ions/motorcycle/index.html | ||
| Ceejay |
Right on hatchet man. I'd also think that for the same reason the MV does well in a museum is also the same reason why the basic design of a scoot hasn't changed in well over 100 yrs. | ||
| Court |
The Guggenheim Exhibit was, and remains to this day, one of the defining events in my motorcycling experience. I spent a month at the Guggenheim before the event and it is unfortunate that one of the planned features was nixed by BMW as a result (and I'm sure I would have done the same thing if the tables were turned) of their $2M of sponsorship money. By the way . . the GAP popped for the $1M in stainless sheeting. Vickie and I had dinner and went to the show with Kirsteen Britten and a friend of mine who owns a Britten. Sometime when you see me . . . remind me to tell you the funny story about David Crosby and Vern Holubeck's kid (you likely recall the name Holbeck from HD t-shirts) from that night. It was an amazing show with some amazing people that changed the way a LOT of people see motorcycles. Remind me to tell you about the "unauthorized" closure (Thank you to the Blue Knights) to take photos at 2:00am of a group of celebs. . . By the way . . since it's germane to this thread. . . I have 3 friends who bought Series Oro MV Agusta F-1 when they first came out and I think it is a stunning design. | ||
| Frankfast |
Maybe beauty is 'not' in the eye of the beholder. Maybe charm is. | ||
| Court |
>>>Maybe beauty is 'not' in the eye of the beholder. Maybe charm is. You've never seen Kirsteen (former Super Model) Britten have you?  | ||
| Rocketman |
The MV F4 was designed by Massimo Tamburini. Recognised by many as the worlds greatest motorcycle designer. Look at any MV. There is a style that is carried through all of the visible components. The mirror shape is mimicked in the instrument cluster. The mirror housing carries the same curvature as the fairing. The accents on the top fairing are mimicked on the tank and the seat unit. The tail end again mimics the shape of the mirrors and the instrumentation. That same shape is also mimicked in the handlebar space cut into the fairing side. The headlamp is the shape of the seat. The front of the lower fairing carries the angular design to the rear of the lower fairing, and again to the front hugger. The XBR is good at what it portrays as a motorcycle. I believe 'Sportsfighter' was an on the money piece of great marketing. The MV is also good at portraying its craft, but it goes a step further. It transcends beyond a motorcycle to an artwork. A mechanical sculpture even. No one can deny its presence as either. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but that doesn't exclude something from being recognisably beautiful to everyone - which is what the MV is. Rocket (Message edited by rocketman on December 28, 2007) | ||
| Rocketman |
Might I add, I've ridden a few models, all of them 'super'. I've also thrashed the tits off an MV F41000. All did not disappoint  Rocket | ||
| Molly_hatchet |
so how do u think the MV compares to the XB and the oooh say 1098 . like any piece of machinery it must have faults . would u feel comfortable riding an F4 every day . | ||
| Blake |
Absolutist statements are silly. If mere mimicry of form is art, then I could be the new Rembrandt. The MV is interesting. The cyclops headlight is a no go for me, as are the panel-like large utilitarian side portions of the fairing. The ssswingarm in combination with the star inspired rear wheel is magnificent. That is the one and only thing I recall staring at when viewing the MV's at the last show I attended a couple years ago. The front forks' axle clamping portions are nice. Rounded beats squared every time in the looks department. When function dictates form, artfullness usually follows. When form deviates from function, things can get unartful in a hurry. (Message edited by blake on December 28, 2007) | ||
| Rocketman |
Absolutely I would ride an MV as my number one bike. Many do over here, just like R1 or Blade owners might or do. The 1098 is Ducatis attempt to claw back customers who bought into the 916 theme, found them to extreme, and went back to Japanese brands. The similarity to an R1 at the front end is not typical of Italian design. Yes it's a nice looking motorcycle, and the power is stratospheric, but I'd still take a 998 over one. As for faults. No other motorcycle could throw as much crap at me as my Buells have, so I'm seasoned in dealing with faults these days  Rocket | ||
| Rocketman |
Absolutist statements are silly. See Blake, this is me seeing you as trying to make me look stupid. Why do that? Is it in the interest of the BadWeB? Please, don't give me the absolutist thing. Otherwise all moto journalism is flawed. You know as well as anyone else the point I was making. Is it so hard to accept that the MV was designed by a, let's see now, a motorcycle designer? Wow. The XB was designed by who? An engineer first? An engineer last? An engineer in there somewhere? I understand John Keogh (a Brit by the way) styled the XB. I wonder exactly what design constraints he had to overcome working around an engineering marvel, such is the XB. Rocket | ||
| Molly_hatchet |
if u ever find urself in the godforsaken northwest rocket let me know id be happy to buy u a drink...i saw something i think it was on superbikes where a few new stunters were given F4's to thrash at a stunt park in france they seemed to enjoy them right fine....now here in the good ole us of a if u were seen on the F4 u would instantly be labeled a poser riding an elitist bike...that thing just costs waaay to much...i wouldnt buy one for the same reason i wouldnt buy a ferrari i just cant afford it...i wouldnt pay 30 grand for a new harley either...just dosent seem right to make a nice bike like that then alienate the people that want it most .im torn between the 848 and a couple of others myself...im not sure i wanna take the ducati plunge yet though...the only faults my XB threw at me was dealing with the dealerships until i found a good one. | ||
| Ebear |
Oh , come on Blake.....you cant say that Gatling gun exhaust system isn't a work of art also!!!!!! I kinda like the wings on the tank and how the mirrors blend with it too. P.S. Merry Christmas and a GREATER than EVER New Years to ya all also!!!!! I'm hoping Warrs gets an 1125R so Rocket can see and feel what we have in this new bike!! Leaving tonight to spend the last weekend of the year in Yosemite....hoping the snow stops for a day or two....so,see ya next year!  | ||
| Xl1200r |
Rocket, I have to disagree regarding the styling of the MV. I won't even begin to deny that it's a beautiful machine, but I don't see it breaking any barriers anywhere. It's surely nicer to look at than the latest Suzuki GSX-R's which seem to mimic more than one of it's design points, but I don't see a groundbreaking motorcycle in terms of design and aesthetics. As I said, still a gorgeous bike, but if one went zipping by you on the road, no one who didn't know much about bikes would even notice it as it being anything special. They would just see another crotch rocket, which kind of negates the "anyone will see its beauty" argument. Even myself, as one who tends to keep up on the bike industry, appreciates an MV only as a well-performing, rare and expensive bike. Nothing more. In comparison, the same is not likely to happen when you pass a Ferrari or something similar on the road. They carry a visual presence with them that the MV just doesn't have in my opinion. Now, is the XB-R any prettier than the MV? Yes and no. The MV surely does have a much more refined quality to it, both in build and style. But, that said, refinement does not always equal beauty. The XB-R is surely crude in comparison on nearly every level, but is also much more likely to get a "What the hell was that!?" response from a witness. In short, both are beautiful machines in my eye, with the XB getting points for uniqueness and the MV getting points for refinement. The bottom line is both bikes will stir up a different set of emotions, so you're going to like the bike which you identify more with. Besides, any design points the MV gets are negated by the fact that my 8-year-old sister could probably come up with a less childish logo than the MV Agusta uses (Message edited by xl1200r on December 28, 2007) | ||
| Rex |
if you are looking for a piece of artwork, then the ducati hailwood model produced and sold on the internet is a piece of artwork. the swingarm, the tank, the fork triple clamps. you can sit and stare at that one all day. the mv may be designed as a whole, but looks too much like the other japanese bikes. nothing interesting that makes it stand out from the rest. with the heritage of mv, and their triples and fours of the past, the new mv is just another indian, excelsior, etc. except they are still in business. REX | ||
| Molly_hatchet |
my perfect bike would of been the XB with the rotax motor i loved the way my 9 looked...im waitin on the aftermarketeers to do something great...sometime soon here il get to ride this beast and see what i think...should be interesting. | ||
| 2kx1 |
Although I don't remember where,I recently read an interview with Tamburini in which he stated that someone engineering a motorcycle should be assisted by designers and not the other way around. I also read a good interview about EB in hooters magazine also. | ||
| Pwnzor |
because the XB lacks one area of design that the MV has True. That big sheet of plastic is missing. Let's see, where else can we find something hiding under a big ugly sheet?  | ||
| Ducxl |
That big sheet of plastic is there for the same reason our swingarms and wheels are made in China.They're cost effective.MV does offer that same sheet in CF,but as it is soooo expensive to manufacture it's offered only on the "F4 Tamburini" model. Funny...when Buell cheapifies it's written off as cost effective.But when everyone else does it it's called "bland/soul-less,blah,blah. I think my plastic Buell bodywork is "cheap". And would wish for CF,but won't spend the money.........on my Buell | ||
| Pwnzor |
personally, I'd like to rid myself of the cheesey-looking chin fairing on my bike, but the pipe is so ugly underneath that the plastic is the lesser of two evils. BUT, that chin fairing is the size of a postage stamp compared to that giant ace bandage on the MV. Don't get me wrong, I love the MV as much as anybody, but this argument of "I think this looks better, so therefore it IS better" has gone on ad nauseum. Isn't there anything better to do? I'm going riding in about 15 minutes. Right after I scan the Xboard. | ||
| Spike |
Count me in as one more who doesn't find the MV F4 to be superb. Sure, it's attractive, but in a generic sorta way. Outside of the pentagram wheels and quadruple exhaust, it doesn't break new ground anywhere. It carries a lot of elements over from the 916, but with more conventional lines. It looks like a Japanese 916, which is kinda funny when you consider that Tamburini freely admits to copying design cues for the 916 from a Japanese bike: Mitsuyoshi Hohama's NR750. |
