| Author | Message | ||
     Misato |
 | ||
| Arbalest |
Is the media embargo off as of today? If so, where is the information? If the ebargo is still in effect, when is it lifted? | ||
| Arbalest |
OK, How was the MCN article fundamentally wrong? The picure with the black frame sure looks like they nailed it to me. | ||
| Misato |
it looks it pretty close to me.. except its more than 6hp gain | ||
| Jim_m |
don't see the Cyclone replacement  the black XB12R does look the business though | ||
| Dynarider |
OK, How was the MCN article fundamentally wrong? The picure with the black frame sure looks like they nailed it to me. Pretty much dead nutz on the money. The 6hp was off but that was it. Hmmm looks like anon was full of shit. | ||
| Tripper |
Wel at least he wasn't full of himself. | ||
| Anonymous |
'Pretty much dead nutz on the money. The 6hp was off but that was it. Hmmm looks like anon was full of shit.' Only if you think six equals sixteen to eighteen. MCN may have had had the model name right, and may have talked to someone who had seen a press kit photo, but they knew little else about it. It's not a Sportster engine, and the 103 horse number is conservative. The xb12 is seriously quick, and makes more power than any previous Buell. It's almost six up on a White Lightning, with a powerband that looks like that of a race-kitted tube framer. | ||
| Cro13 |
Hey, I’m not one to argue but Anon. was right. Are you serious? “The 6hp was off but that was it” That was it! That was the whole argument. Am I missing something? Carter Smith | ||
| Cro13 |
In the time that it took me to write that Anon. stepped up for himself. Thank you again for your information I appreciate the time you take to help us out. Carter Smith | ||
| Blake |
Dyna, You need to reread the MCN article. Let's review... The new XB12S will go on sale later this year. A semi faired version will follow called XB12R. Wrong. The XB12R is being released concurrently with the XB12S. The new bike ups capacity from 900cc to 1200cc... Wrong. The XB9's are not 900cc; they are 984cc. ...with a motor from Harley-Davidson's 1200 Sportster. Wrong. The XB12 motor is not from the H-D Sportster. ...expect power to be up around 6bhp from 90bhp Wrong. Power is 103bhp, up over 10 hp from the XB9s. ...and torque to rise from 63ftlb to around 70ftlb. Wrong. Torque is 84ft*lb. No, I am not anony. I do not post anonymously. | ||
| Jim_m |
I dunno, the 103 is off the crank, isn't it? The Thunderstorm engines were rated at 101. The XB9 is rated at 92. So we're looking at an 11 bhp difference. That'll equate to low 90's (if history has any say in rated numbers v. real world/rear tire numbers). Of course, that'll be a kick in the pants with a 395 lb bike (or is that 445  ) The nature of the power is going to be the interesting part, but we'll have to wait for the reports to start coming in (I don't care who the company is, I don't take their number's without a grain of salt). Of course, that black Firebolt is already my new wallpaper. It's friggin' evil looking. (Edited because I just read Blake's post...isn't the 84 ft/lbs off the crank? rear wheel readings should bring it around the low 70's right? Maybe MCN was going off of tested numbers v. claimed numbers?) edited by jim_m on July 14, 2003 | ||
| Dynarider |
It may well be a sportster motor. Harley announced a completely revamped XL lineup today. Hmm, cant wait to see what motor those bikes have. And anon, you or some other anon..hell you all look alike  ...said that "much" was wrong with the MCN article. The model, the motor size, the color, etc were all correct. | ||
| Budo |
I had a 1998 S1W, advertised at 101 hp at the crank. After I had carefully broken it in I had the shop dyno it I remember the hp being 76 or 78 the torque was 74 or so. I was dissapointed of course. So I did the usual mods, carb, V&H, K&N, plug wires, craine Ignition module. The next dyno run showed it at 86hp and 84 foot lbs of torque. I think you will be lucky to see something in the 90's on the new XB12, just my opinion. With these motors it really seems to depend on who assembled the motor. | ||
| Budo |
The other observation I will make is this. I guess the XB12 is supposed to compete with the likes of the Suzuki SV1000, naked version. A local dealer has those for $6,999.00. Is the XB12, $10,999.00? That is a huge difference and what do you get for the extra four grand? | ||
| Dynarider |
Budo, Im betting these motors get into the 90's rwhp with ease. I have seen the tube framers do it on occasion with nothing more than the race kit. | ||
| Jim_m |
just cause fair's fair... "It's almost six up on a White Lightning, with a powerband that looks like that of a race-kitted tube framer." That would give it 107 (if you're going off of the WL's factory rating. If you're going off the rear wheel, that number would be around the 93 hp mark (IIRC the WL was dyno's by MO at 87 hp). That number can then be applied to the XB's mid 70 pulls to read +16-18 hp. But don't mix crank readings with rear wheel readings. Looks fishy. Any way you cut it, these 12s should still rock... | ||
| Dynarider |
Jim, it may also be because it seems like all the UK bikes are reduced in HP compared to what is offered here. I recall quite a few posts from the boys in England about clipping the mysterious "white" wire. Dont know if actually did anything tho. | ||
| Blake |
Jim, MCN said to "...expect power to be up around 6bhp from 90bhp" The 90hp is at the crank for the XB9s is it not? They are comparing crank ratings. They are WAY wrong, just as anony said. Five incorrect facts in a short little report. Pretty much exonerates anony don't you think? The photo was accurate for the and the cc'c were accurate. Everything else... wrong. Budo, From my perspective, the SV1000 is to the XB12R as a Shelby Cobra is to a Mazda Miata. You want cheap? Buy the SV, a fine Japanese motorcyle. Me? I'll take the Cobra please. There simply is no comparison. The new Buells are in a class far above any SV. Rolling art versus mass produced cheapy bike. Dyna, Spoken like a true Harley man (that's twice I've teased you about that today)  . The engine debuts in a Buell, then gets stroked for Buell, but to if the new Sportster gets the new engine, it isn't a Buell engine anymore, it's a Sportster engine? I think a more accurate statement would have been that "the Sportster will share the new Buell 1203cc engine." But I have doubts even about that. Wouldn't really make sense to produce two different 1203cc engines though. When does HDMC announce details about their new models? I'm betting Buell may have reworked the tailpipe to allow export of full power versions. Remember it was the Aussie and Euro noise tests that supposedly necessitated the dreaded white wire. Something about the acoustic sensor/probe being pointed right at the tail pipe as the bike was emitting max noise levels. Hmmm, maybe they'll have two different mufflers, one with tailpipe on the left for domestic bikes, and one with tailpipe on the right for Euro and Aussie exports. That would be silly would't it. Just goes to show how poor some of the acoustic emissions standards and regulatory compliance testing really are. | ||
| Glitch |
That is a huge difference and what do you get for the extra four grand? Suspension for one. On Suzuki's "budget" bikes the suspension is total crap. To get it up to par with Buell would cost quite a bit. I know both suspensions... AND it's a Buell | ||
| Rocketman |
BUELL is launching faster, more powerful and torquier versions of its XB9S and XB9R - as our world first picture, above, reveals. Correct The new XB12S will go on sale later this year. Correct A semi faired version will follow called XB12R. Correct MCN reported the S first. The new bike ups capacity from 900cc to 1200cc with a motor from Harley-Davidson's 1200 Sportster. Incorrect but we knew that anyway. No power or torque figures are available but expect power to be up around 6bhp from 90bhp and torque to rise from 63ftlb to around 70ftlb. Correct they said expect and up The new 1200's share Buell's radical frame and swingarm which stores the fuel in the frame and oil in the swing arm. Correct Our picture shows the new bike will have a black frame and swingarm and gold wheels in place of the XB9's silver items. Correct and a damn fine picture too. No one at Buell is commenting on the new bike yet, despite the fact that we'll be publishing our first test on it next week. Incorrect Anonymous commented"They got much, but not all, of this one wrong, and everyone who knows what they got wrong can't talk. You'll see on the 14th, and suffice to say, any new Buell product introduced then will be more exciting than the machine described in MCN" Thank you for your valued input Anon. You just tossed your credibility down the toilet. May I suggest in future you just stick to bringing the Buell community those technical snippets we so need to keep our Buell's from falling apart. After all any other participation here on your part has been to mislead us wrt the new model and further, to discredit MCN. Did someone from above put you up to it because MCN broke the alleged embargo? I guess your job's safe and thanks for using the Badweb for your little game, the purpose of which I'm not entirely clear. And I'm sorry if this offends anyone but when I'm asked by the boss not to argue with a valued anonymous poster whos comments "we can take to the bank" I expect NOT to be lied to or my posts or comments belittled by this anonymous person simply because I had faith in something they clearly knew to be for the most CORRECT but against their personal selfish reason. Blake and Aaron, you both vouched for Anon. I say you can't trust anyone these days more's the pity and it seems Donn was right about that elitist thing you guys got going on. Rocket  | ||
| Anonymous |
Rocket -- if you don't think 95 horsepower at the rear wheel is much more exiting than 84, that's your problem, not mine. If you knew how hard people worked to make it that way, you'd understand why the MCN article was offensive. And XB12R's as well as XB12S's have been coming off the line for more than a month; they'll be widely available before the summer is over. | ||
| Jim_witt |
Sorry guys ... guess I was incorrectly informed about the electric Buell. Maybe next year. -JW:>( | ||
| Rocketman |
So MCN offended you. I never mentioned HP and as for MCN they said UP and EXPECT and in any case they started their report by saying BUELL is launching faster, more powerful and torquier versions of its XB9S and XB9R. Given that just about every freekin person reading MCN is a motorcyclist, and probably they knowing Buells reputation for building innovative streetfighter motorcycles, does it not go without saying that a hike to 1200cc's will be EXCITING, or are we to assume because we must be stupid that the capacity hike was for some other more mundane reason and therefore not for excitement? You plain mislead the board, slagged MCN and belittled my post and all because MCN didn't include that word. Am I rattled? Only by the fact that you can't admit what you did was misleading and that Blake will undoubtedly support you. I on the other hand will not kiss your arse. You lied my friend, plain and simple, and a little at my expense too. And by the way, I don't doubt how hard anyone at Buell has worked to bring the 1200's to market but I might now that you have told me. See how it works? Rocket edited by rocketman on July 14, 2003 | ||
| Aaron |
Rocket, that's bullshit, he didn't lie a bit. MCN lied when they reported a 6hp increase. A whole bunch of people here on this board were throwing rocks at it for such a tiny improvement. That piece of information was flat out wrong. Now, pay attention, he just gave you another tidbit. Despite being rated at 103 crank hp, he said 95 rear wheel horsepower. I don't know about you, but I've ridden a 96rwhp XB with over 80 ft/lbs of torque, and I'm here to tell you, you will not climb off that bike and complain that it's underpowered. In fact, I'm a little surprised that Buell would put that much power into such a short bike with light wheels. I can imagine some people hurting themselves on test rides. If it's like the one I rode, it'll flip you over backward for the crime of whacking the throttle open while cruising along in 3rd gear. You've gotta be downright careful with your right hand whenever the bike is in first or second. Fercrissakes, quit being such a pain in the ass and celebrate what they've done. This bike is going to be an absolute hoot to ride, you watch. edited by aaron on July 14, 2003 | ||
| Mzoomora |
Rocket, What is the prob? You act like anon attacked you personally. If you have such a low opinion of buell, why are you spending soo much time writing this stuff? You said anon had no credibility, but you gave him credit for tech info to keep "our Buells from falling apart". Anyway, I think this new bike is what the XB's should have been all along. I'm looking forward to a demo ride. MZ | ||
| Anonymous |
Rocket, MCN is the most honorable magazine on the planet. They are always right, and should be bought by all motorcycle riders the world over. All the others who were actually at the press launch and honored the embargo should close their doors as of 8:00 local time tomorrow morning in their respective time zones. Now, are you happy? Anonymous posters, I suggest we all stop. As much time as we all have spent with the new, and future motorcycles, I'm sure you will agree they are more than capable of speaking for themselves. Some things are better seen through the rear view mirror. | ||
| Blake |
Rocket, Speaking as a friend, I think you are WAY out of line. You are fighting about an astute yet opinionated review of a friggin magazine article! Think about that for a minute please. Then get the bike running and go for a ride. | ||
| Dynarider |
The engine debuts in a Buell, then gets stroked for Buell, but to if the new Sportster gets the new engine, it isn't a Buell engine anymore, it's a Sportster engine? I think a more accurate statement would have been that "the Sportster will share the new Buell 1203cc engine." But I have doubts even about that. Wouldn't really make sense to produce two different 1203cc engines though. When does HDMC announce details about their new models? No details yet, just says the model lineup has been revamped completely. My guess is the XB motor & rubber mounted. BTW, remember what I said quite a while back about Buell being used as a test bed for harley? If the XB motor does end up in the sporty lineup that would make it 2 for 2 | ||
| Koz5150 |
If the new Buell motor ends up in the Harley Sportster will it have less compression and lower HP? edited by koz5150 on July 15, 2003 |
