| Author | Message | ||
     Chas1969 |
In Fuell's "Ask Abe" he goes in good detail about Right Side Scoop could cause vapor-lock becuase their is a disruption in the air flow over the fuel rail at low speeds and fan sucking air through the engine. Also in testing RSS caused "mirror image of the left" so at idle could cause increased temps. And the cylinder head temp on the stock set-up with only LSS gave equal temps for front and back cylinders. Now the 2 questions from BWB's with RSS: 1. Has anyone have vapor-lock with RSS ... anyone???? 2. Does your fan work less with RSS installed? Thanks for your help ... ABE is a good guy but I think he is towing the factory line. Chas | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
If a larger RRS would be an improvement, don't you think Buell would add one? Look at the improvements made to the bike since 2003. | ||
| 07xb12scg |
I'm glad this was addressed in Fuell. I never knew the little scoop was used to cool the fuel rail and, judging from the discussions on various forums, neither did most people. So the myth is debunked, or at least, we have factory input on why the stock one isn't larger. I think if a larger RSS was needed it would have been addressed for 08 with the rest of the updates. | ||
| Concor |
Ill respond now before this thread turns upside down like it usually does. My fan runs a considerable amount less since i put on a RSS, dont know about vapor lock or head locks for that matter. Just because Buell doesnt offer it doesnt mean its not an improvement, im sure some R owners would think non melting headlights would also be an improvement but to date no update either. | ||
| Stewadi |
I had to take off my RSS yesterday and put the stock scoop back on and I can tell you this...no science here.....but the fan runs lot more often now. With the RSS, it only ran when I turned if off after a long ride or in hot weather stop and go traffic. Today, I went for a ride and it was in the 30's and the fan was on pretty much the whole time. Not a big deal (I wear ear plugs) but still.... btw, no vapor locks. | ||
| Torq |
it is LOW speeds in which this occurs-as in just above idle or cruising Main Street Daytona or South Beach in much warmer climates--if you reach 2nd gear your goin' too fast. A RSS might work for some, but yesterdays low for me in Miami, Fla. was a "chilling" ,for us, 69Deg F. and on a "cruise" down Ocean Drive that allows me to travel a "whopping" 2 miles in about 30 minutes keeping the stock scoop set up works best. the benefit to living here is riding weather pretty much all year long- the only thing I envy Northerners for is my Vanson leather are too hot to wear for about 8 months out of the year. | ||
| Aussie_xb12ss |
This RSS thing seems to go round & round & round........ 99% of us that have them swear by them. I've had mine for roughly 5000km's & it's one of the best mods I have done. But the weather where I am is fairly warm to bloody hot all year round. I also have no fear of pulling up somewhere & the fans not working. | ||
| Chas1969 |
It is good to have Abe's comments but after 2-3 months researching the web on the RSS ... not one comment from a RSS owner about fueling issues. If Abe is right then we would see some fuel problems at low speed from someone ... but none or at least from BWB's. Only thing from the board in the past is the RSS saves people from listening to the fan going all the time. So Abe maybe only talking from a Theoretical area but still practical common sense for me is RSS is very benefical to a air-cooled engine IMHO. Abe I thing is towing the Motor Co. line on anything non-HD/Buell. Chas Chas | ||
| Cycleaddict |
may be the RSS could cause problems at "parade" speeds ??? traffic jams etc. | ||
| Anonymous |
What we find frustrating is that none of the people who criticize have to produce a product that works in all situations for everyone the way we do. When we explain it, we are called liars. F*** off, quite frankly. Abe is not toeing the company line, he is speaking from the facts on all the testing we do. Yes, testing, not theory. Nobody out there tests our motorcycles like we do. And testing means meeting all homologation standards in all world conditions. You can like your accessories as much as you want, but when you call us incompetents and/or liars, well as I said before, F*** off. | ||
| Old_man |
I have the stock setup on my XB9S. As I put on the miles, the fan came on less and less. At one point I thought it might be broken, but it is working fine. It is a rare occasion when the fan comes on now. An engine that is broken in and synthetic oil seem to help keep it cool. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
"the fan came on less and less. At one point I thought it might be broken, but it is working fine" Ditto. I actually thought about taking mine out and having it tested. | ||
| Cringblast |
Going slow YES I seem to agree not much air flow. Had RSS for 10k Its great. No probs in high outside temps. But, was conscience of it To me the cooler the better. Over 5 mph that is ! | ||
| Chas1969 |
It is only a forum asking a emperical question to everyone with a RSS; "Have you had Vapor-lock or fueling problems?" and "Does your fan work less?". Real world testing by the customers of Buell with RSS and no need to be defensive. Only I have noticed with my service manual and owners manual the only products like oil, spark plugs ... are highly Proprietary to your stuff (HD/Buell oil, plugs...). If you anonymous get a little ruffled then it confirms bias not that you are or Buell are liars or such. If Buell treats their customers like this if they question something then PM me your name and your boss's name and maybe we should talk. Chas | ||
| Aussie_xb12ss |
Anonymous:-You can like your accessories as much as you want, but when you call us incompetents and/or liars, well as I said before, F*** off. I don't see any posts here that needed that response. Yep, I certainly do like my accessories & that is why I have spent good money on them (Message edited by Aussie_XB12SS on November 23, 2007) | ||
| Anonymous |
Well, Aussie, the guy who started this says "So Abe maybe only talking from a Theoretical area but still practical common sense for me is RSS is very benefical to a air-cooled engine IMHO. Abe I thing is towing the Motor Co. line on anything non-HD/Buell." That is calling him a liar. And if you knew Abe, that is as far from the truth as you could ever be. He is 100% straight, no matter the consequences. Consequences are of course nothing any poster or aftermarket guy has to handle. | ||
| Court |
>>>>>that is as far from the truth as you could ever be Actully . . . it's even further than that. Abe, a skilled writer and arguably a genius in his own right, has standards and integrity above question. It's really a cheap shot to say something like that on the internet. Disagreeing is one thing, but to spew moutharrhea is below low.
Frankly, no you didn't. | ||
| Aussie_xb12ss |
Well, Anonymous, thats fine. I still don't see anyone calling anyone a liar or incompetent but I'm not about to start a he said she said thing. I don't know what goes on behind the scenes & perhaps I just read it a different way. I suppose I'm just a bit over the whole RSS thing. (Message edited by Aussie_XB12SS on November 24, 2007) | ||
| Fresnobuell |
You guys and the fan. I just don't see the big deal about it...AT ALL. Maybe get some earplugs or MP3 player--voila, problem solved. | ||
| Cataract2 |
Ok, well, here's some long term testing in many time of environments. Long term as in over 30,000 miles with the RSS on I can tell you that I have not experienced vapor lock or increased temps. I found the fan runs less with it and turns off sooner if I am moving. I've ridden down main street at Daytona during bike week with it on and had no issues. I've done parades with it barely about 10mph. The fan has come on and shut off much sooner with it on. I'm not going to call Abe a lier or that Buell didn't get good testing. I'm just saying my experiences. Maybe there are situations where it could happen. I dunno. I just like my scoop. Balanced the looks of the bike too. | ||
| Chas1969 |
Thanks Cringblast and Cataract2 Good posts ! Chas | ||
| Bombardier |
I have been employed in an underground coalmine where ventilation is the difference between life and death. I can, therefore, believe what Abe has stated about the mirroring effect being an issue at low speeds given a certain temperature and airspeed. I too will be fitting an RSS as nearly all of my riding is at 110kmh(60mph)in 40 degree C heat. You would be well advised to measure the profiles of the inside of each scoop to see that they are in fact a little more or less in area from one side to the other. This will negate what Abe stated about the mirroring effect from occurring. The different velocities will allow air to pass across the throttle body area and thus reduce the chance of vapour lock from excessive heat. | ||
| Corporatemonkey |
Does anyone have any extra popcorn? This thread is getting entertaining.  | ||
| Treadmarks |
No disrespect intended for Anon and Abe, and do I appreciate the info they have shared with the Buell community. I have had dozens of bikes and this is the first time ever, that I know for a fact, that the mother ship is working to build a better product by communicating with the customers personally.  It is impossible to build a bike that works for everyone, everywhere, and still make a profit. Compromises have to be made, EPA and DOT rules have to be followed, deadlines have to be met. Modifications and feedback by customers has to be assessed. Sometimes the feedback leads to new models with mods like yours on it. And things continue to get better. Most of us purchased an 06 Uly, the first model year. There will be some kinks to work out. Air cooled bikes get hot, even hotter sitting still while running. Eventually this heat will get to the fuel rail. If the fuel gets too hot, it can lead to vapor lock. Anyone who raced a holley equipped performance motor with headers back in the 70s knows how much fun vapor lock was at the drag strip. A lot of open hoods and cool cans with ice was used to prevent it. With the factory rss, my right thigh got pretty darn hot, and the fan ran almost all the time. The fan intake is not directed to the rear engine head, as well as it could be. The exhaust from the fan should not be allowed to dump it's heat on the bas, ecm, or the bottom of the seat. It should have been redirected out of the bottom of the bike over the rear fender instead of dead heading under the seat. If the exhaust dead heads like it did on my bike, the total flow of the fan is reduced. The Spal VA22-AP11-C fan in the Uly can be improved on. Spal makes better fans, at a higher cost. Come on, only 330 cfm at 6.3 amps? I'm not complaining, just stating observations, from lessons learned, in my world. I purchased and installed an aftermarket large rss, and my fan run time was reduced considerably. I removed it and went back to the factory unit and my fan run time increased. I ride my Uly everyday. I observed a definite difference in fan run times. My oversized modified rss will be staying, because it works-for me..  But the right thigh still got hot in stopped traffic. I did what I could to reduce the amount of heat on the right side, by installing a ceramic coated pipe. While the engine was out for the pipe install, heat barrier was applied to the right side fuel rail.  No more hot thigh. Right side fuel rail temps were now down 30 degrees to a more pleasant 110-118 after the same every day ride home in hell hot miami traffic. But still, when the fan would come on, it would stay on. I do not mind the fan running, if it is actually cooling the engine. The fact that it would come on and stay on indicates that it does not cool the engine as well as it should. It needed some extra help. These are connected to the engine cooling fan, and cycle when it does.  Now, when the fan comes on while stopped in traffic, I know it will shut off in just a few minutes. This is just what works for me, where I ride, the way I ride. I know the new Ulys will continue to get better, but it would be nice if a hot weather package was offered as an option at extra cost even, just like the "towing package" option on a new truck. Like I said, it is impossible to build a bike that works for everyone, everywhere, and still make a profit. For me, this is the perfect bike, and does all that I ask of it. Hats off to Buell for coming so close!  | ||
| Blake |
"ABE is a good guy but I think he is towing the factory line." ... Abe I thing is towing the Motor Co. line on anything non-HD/Buell. That is calling the man a liar, nothing more, nothing less. You should apologize. | ||
| Torq |
Treadmarks, you should go to the old Fuddrucker's where the palmetto ends and joins US1 in South Miami Thursday nights-haven't seen you around and would be interested in taking a look see @ your Uly. I agree with most of what you have done and said, but still feel the RSS is not completely the right answer. Just as you stated about the Holley, lemme refer to all those "backyard mechanics" who threw out their thermostats in their "muscle cars" because it ran too hot! now they have carbon build up and sludging because the engine ran too cool--even performance boaters use restriction plates to maintain a certain temperature. the "company" whether it be GM, Ford, BMW, or Buell does not spend millions of dollars and countless hours of research on a component or the reverse engineering to omit a said component (RSS) just so some "snake oil" part can be installed and make everything "better". notice I stated the manufacturer designs and builds "components" and the aftermarket builds "parts". the "company" builds components for a well designed system, such as a cooling system, which must work under all conditions and all situations. what is good for me may not be as good for you but the manufacturer must build their product to be at least acceptable for everyone-Alaska and Florida are 2 completely different environments--and a "part" may make something perform better for someone, somewhere, doing something else with said product. using an RSS does allow the fan to run less frequently and in shorter intervals because the temperature sensor, the component that reads the temperature, is preset at a specified temperature to run the fan and may now be remaining cooler longer, but the preset value was probably determined by the average temperature across the entire cylinder and its components and in adding the RSS you may have created a new average temp not to mention a new airflow pattern over the cylinders which, although you can't feel it on your leg, may allow another location of said cylinder to heat up differently "possibly" causing a whole new set of conditions. engine temperatures are too important for proper emissions and fuel atomization--which by the way tend to go hand in hand--not to mention burning off condensation and acids in oil to promote proper lubrication and life for me to chance it on something that looks more symmetrical and makes my leg cooler and my ear less annoyed---I'll solve those tolerable annoyances in different ways. but then again I may just not have a clue? | ||
| Birdy |
Treadmarks Like the idea of fans on the oil cooler. But wouldn't they be better mounted on the other side pulling the air through and not blocking the scoop? I do know these computer fans work better in a traction mode than as pushers. I'm just to lazy to walk out to my bike and see if there's clearance to mount them there! HEY But what ever works for ya works. Birdy | ||
| Teeps |
For what it's worth, here's the link: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142 838/224426.html?1157060224 to a thread of Semi-scientific Observations of Right Side Scoop, that I made over a year ago. Note: I had nothing to gain from placebo, as I did not own the RSS I was using. | ||
| Bonjoxb12s |
I'm not sure who Anon is in this case, but it's very disappointing to see someone from the company take that stance. I really don't care what someone says, or does, Buell has a higher standard to adhere to then this. There are always going to be people who think they can build a bigger and/or better product.... instead of saying F*&* off, let them do as they please and later realize that BUELL was actually correct. Very disappointing....... VERY....... | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
I'm a national Pro Staff member for Gander Mountain, if I told somebody from the pubic to F-off, my time is done. I understand the frustration, but you can't say things like that. I'd love to be a Buell employee to see the memo that floats around next week. |
