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Cuelbuell
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2007 - 09:10 pm: | 
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First off I strongly agree with P_squared, there are always other options. I duno if I would carry while riding but if I did
My trusty Five Seven. Not to concealable being a full frame, but VERY effective. |
Cityxslicker
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2007 - 09:14 pm: |
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Pistol packin no money fool. Running the mouth and grindin the gears hard. Love a stubby 357 5 shot. gets it done, and there isnt a can of cream corn that is safe. No point in having it if you cant reliably, point click and unload with precision. It is not the answer to domestic issues, but if I need to draw it, best bet that is going to be used. In some states "brandishing" is worse than discharging. |
Aesquire
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2007 - 10:13 pm: |
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Cool swissmini gun!
How's the FiveSeven to shoot? ( I want a PS90, just because it was on Stargate SG-1 )
In the Imperial state ( New York ) "brandishing" is very BAD. Having a gun peek out from under a jacket is enough to get some types freaked out. Conceal, conceal, really it is the priority.
If you can't do cartwheels without dropping the gun, it's not secure enough for riding.
Fanny pack, ( yep, look like a cop ) Pocket Holster, Boot, Secure waistband holster, like a Sherpa, etc. is the best deal.
DON'T carry loose in a pocket. A pocket holster will stabilize the weapon & help keep junk out. Small revolvers ( I favor the S&W Bodyguard & it's Taurus clone in Ti ) will do stupid stuff like pick up a coin in the action & not work when you need it. Pocket holsters are tacky on the outside to stay put, smooth inside for easy draw, and they break up the outline.
Don't carry in a tank bag, unless you are RELIGIOUS in your dedication to keeping it with you, always. We really don't need more stolen guns on the street.
If you use a waistband holster, seriously consider one with modern retention systems. You don't need to go plastic to get retention.
Under the jacket slows down your presentation,but if you're like me, you unzip right after you dismount, most of the year. Shooting from a moving ( or parked ) bike is more advanced than I'm trained for. I wonder if Gunsite or Thunder Ranch could do a class for that?? Let me know, so I can be way out of range.
I have a hard time concealing a 1911 without a tac jacket/vest ( like 5.11's ).
For carry I have to go with a small auto or snub revolver. Everyones different. Be safe.
(Message edited by aesquire on November 07, 2007) |
Diablobrian
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2007 - 11:37 pm: |
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Most people seem to have it right insofar as employment of a weapon.
It is a last ditch option. You have exhausted ALL peaceful means of getting out of the situation
if you are even considering pulling a gun.
You do not pull it unless you intend to use it.
If you have need to use it someone is going to die.
Threats, brandishing, warning shots, and shooting to "wound" are all pure Bullspit.
I also am trained with firearms. I was a member of the boarding party during LEO ops
when I was in the Navy, and shot IPSC for years as well as silouette shooting with my
old Dan Wesson .41mag (I LOVED that gun)
I've been out of the scene for a few years now though and I'm going to have to peak at
the 5.7 and see what thats about. For carry I currently prefer 40 s&w or 357sig. |
Swampy
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2007 - 11:44 pm: |
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Pocket lint and pocket pistols go together, even if it is in a pocket holster!
I one time went to use my pocket pistol that was kept in a pocket holster. I carried it all the time, it only came out when it changed pockets. Well wouldn't you know that pocket lint will prevent a pistol from firing.
So what ever you use, have a cleaning schedule for it.
If you clean it regularly it will help prevent you from aquiring nicknames such as "Click" And ward off instructors asking "Hey Click, is your gun clean?" |
Hexangler
| | Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2007 - 01:38 am: |
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I usually just carry weed (flowers). Gets me out of most difficult situations.
Hex
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Jayvee
| | Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2007 - 01:51 am: |
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Hey, another IPSC, IDPA, NRA Conventional ("Bullseye") and IHMSA ("Silhouette") competitor here. (Next year I'm going to try Cowboy Action Shooting Society I hope.)
Not much carrying around here in CA, unless I'm on the range competing. But if I was to do it... (to paraphrase OJ) it would be my Remington Model 51 .380 in a pocket holster, in my pocket. It's so slim it will just disappear into a pocket, pants jacket or vest. Very easy to conceal. |
P_squared
| | Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2007 - 02:09 am: |
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Me thinks some folks may have missed my "finer" point(s).
1) As Diablo & others have said, if u pull it, you'd BETTER be ready for @ least 2 things: Your intent to kill or be killed & someone being DEAD. That includes yourself. A lot of folks seem to have a misguided conception that just because they have a gun, the bad guy doesn't and/or won't shoot them. Or the bad guy is too close for you to clear your piece before he introduces you to his tire iron/shiv/knife/etc. Ask an LEO sometime about what they think about knives inside 7 yards vs. their service pistol.
2) Not all situations favor a handgun. I'll take a knife anyday over a pistol when it's up close & personal with a 2 legged "predator."
3) Regardless of how many John Wayne/Rambo movies you've watched, it doesn't do you a hill of beans worth if you can't react appropriately, expeditiously & have your equipment work 100% of the time. For the pistol afficianado's, that means PRACTICE, muscle memory & NEVER changing between what you practice with vs. what you carry.
Again, it's very similar to what we do on our bikes. It's 24/7 risk assessment. The above & many more are some of the reasons I prefer a knife as my "primary" weapon. I can practice with it nearly anytime/anywhere & can carry it 100% of the time. It's lethal if needed, etc., etc.
But most important of all, if there is ANYWAY to avoid the issue to begin with, do so. It's not just your life or the bad guy's in all instances. For those of us who are married/have kids, there are others we should be concerned about as well. Remember, you don't have anything to "prove" to Billy Joe BadA$$. His personal opinion of you doesn't count. Your life DOES.
Now, back to the original question: "If" I were to carry concealed on my bike, how would I do it?
Tank bag, shoulder holster, or concealed waste holster. I'm not gonna shoot while the bike is moving, so adjust the carry to how I envision employing the weapon.
Observations:
Tankbag: Remember 100% accountability, so it has to be easy to get on/off the bike, carry, and allow quick access to the firearm. Not the best overall option IMHO.
Shoulder holster: Likely most "comfortable" on a bike and always with you, provided you aren't carrying a messenger bag/back pack. Speed to employ is an issue here.
Waste holster: Most familiar carry method for me. I'd hate to go down with a 1911 on my hip though. But it's always on me, I know how to engage 100% from this carry, and it meets my "mission goal."
Again, just my $0.03 (adjusted for inflation) and YMMV
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P_squared
| | Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2007 - 02:59 am: |
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One last log 2 throw on the fire:
My experience tells me to NOT put 100% of my "faith" in 1 tool/weapon. We always (and I still do) carry a primary & secondary. When your primary fails, you IMMEDIATELY go to your secondary. This is muscle memory & practice, practice, practice.
If you're at a point where you are "considering" on HOW you should carry concealed, you should consider the entire picture, IMHO, and make sure you don't put yourself in a mental box you can't get out of when/if you need it. ALWAYS have a "plan B" and PRACTICE it. |
P_squared
| | Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2007 - 03:31 am: |
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Some "observations" based on my experience:
"Murphy" is 1 mean SOB. It's not a question of "if" he'll get you, but when (If you know what "Tap/Rack/Bang" means, you know what I'm talking about). In that vein, keep your powder dry & your hatchet sharp. (Anyone who's been/worked with Rangers will understand this 1. In the most basic terms, review my last post above about primary & secondary weapons.)
If you want to live, you have to be ready, willing & able to do so. That means you have to convince yourself you will do WHATEVER it takes to live. I watched a man duct taped to a 12 ga. in Hawaii wrench the gun out of the perp's hands, because he wanted to LIVE. Conversely, I've seen many a man die because they gave up.
If you find yourself in a situation that is threatening your life, disregard your own. This is a Japanese philosophy of Budo. What it means in practical terms is you HAVE to be as VICIOUS to your attackers as RAPIDLY as you possibly can be, without regard to your own personal risk/pain/discomfort. Your goal is to stop them at ALL costs as RAPIDLY as possible. If you can't put yourself into that kind of mindset, then steer well clear of any situation that may require it.
Last, but should be #1, LISTEN to that "little voice" in the back of your head. DO NOT put yourself in a situation you can avoid to begin with. Barring that, be cognizant of your surroundings. If you'll listen, your body will tell you when someone close to you means you harm. It's that, "I feel someone watching me" feeling. Listen & ACT on it. Worst case is you're wrong but still alive if you listen to it.
Now on that note, let's all go RIDE!!!! |
Diablobrian
| | Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2007 - 05:18 am: |
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+1 on all counts |
P_squared
| | Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2007 - 06:20 am: |
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Thanks Brian. It's a pretty impressive resume you have overall (career & life).
To think I used to get paid for teaching these things (in the military of course)???
I have a "Courtism" of remind me to tell you sometime about "Bathroom 101"
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Cuelbuell
| | Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2007 - 12:24 pm: |
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Aesquire..The FiveSeven is a blast. Almost no recoil and dead on target. It's a all poly gun so its very light. Think its only 29 oz. loaded!! The only downfall is its costly to shoot at $25 a box and only 50 rounds in a box. Also with it being full frame and having sharp edges that will snag on clothing, its not the ideal conceal weapon. It IS the ultimate home defence handgun. It holds 20 in the mag and one in the chamber. If you feel like thats not enought you can get the mag extenders and make it 30 in the mag and 1 in the chamber.   I love this thing and wouldn't trade it for any other handgun. Well unless you offer me an MP5! WOOT!! I keep this as a bedside weapon and also have my 12ga mossberg 500 with 18" barrel and buckshot loaded ready to go  }. This is normal right, lol. |
Gentleman_jon
| | Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2007 - 02:57 pm: |
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If you mean double oh buck, why yes, I'd say that's about normal.
Some guys like to mix it up with a slug or a little bird shot, in spite of the fact that close work is very often a one shot game, if played properly, isn't it?
Personally, if I had an uninvited guest who seemed disinclined to leave in a timely matter, I think I would just talk things over with Mr. Smith.
Small chap, size 38. Can be very convincing when it counts, don't you know.
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Djkaplan
| | Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2007 - 03:21 pm: |
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Ms. Smith is quite convincing also.
Yes Ma'am...
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Blublak
| | Posted on Friday, November 09, 2007 - 03:47 pm: |
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A comment on what Philip said -
"Any fight that lasts 60 seconds.. has lasted 30 seconds too long."
Between all of us here.. We could put on a hell of a class on 'staying alive' vs. 'trying to look pretty'.
Don't you folks discount Mr. Ruger and his cousins (Mr's Colt, Heckler, Koch, Beretta, Springfield, Kimber, etc.) or my old friend Mr. Remmington (short fellow [compared to Kens buddy Mossberg] , very loud when need be.. has been known to clear hallways simply by 'clearing' his throat..)
The best advice however is always..
Just be safe.. remember, as stated above.. The best way to avoid a confrontation is to be aware of your surroundings and see that one's brewing.. and be willing to leave, there is no honor/glory/money in standing your ground to potentially get hurt or worse, when it's easier to vacate the area prior to hostilities beginning. |
Danger_dave
| | Posted on Friday, November 09, 2007 - 04:16 pm: |
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'Get out of Denver.' Seger, B. Is an integral part of my lexicon. |
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