| Author | Message | ||
     Ferrisbuellersdayoff |
and ride LEGALLY and on real roads and not just up to the corner and back. will a blast final drive axle sprocket/cog fit on an XB? from what I've heard our local DMV is so anally retentative and strict that they seemingly hate giving the endorsment out. and figured for the test maybe a lower gear set can be accomplished. | ||
| Murraebueller |
Dude- go take the MSF Basic Riders Course. It's a lot of fun and you get tested at the end. If you pass, you get a card that you show the DMV and they GIVE you an endorsement with NO further testing. Here we use 125-250cc bikes. You might actually learn something as well. If you want the Harley/Buell experience, take the Rider's Edge New Rider Course- same deal, but you train on Blasts. | ||
| Jerzydevil |
Check local regulations, in NJ, you can use a scooter to take the road test on. Cheap to rent, easy to use. (especially on the tight course for the test) | ||
| G234146 |
+1 MSF | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
The Rider's Edge instructors will get you through the course. You're paying more, but the classes are smaller, the course is shorter (in terms of days) and you are all but garunteed to pass. The only way you won't is if you dump a bike in an exam. | ||
| Jonzin |
I agree; Rider's Edge is the way to go. | ||
| Azxb9r |
Add another vote for the MSF course. If you are new it will teach you alot, if you have been riding for a while it will remind you of things you may have forgotten. | ||
| Mikef5000 |
Another MSF vote here. | ||
| Tq_freak |
Another MSF vote here too It taught me a TON of info and was a fun weekend too. I have been thinking of going back and taking level 2 and 3 | ||
| Blackxb9 |
+1 for MSF as well | ||
| Diablobrian |
MSF has benefits beyond just getting through the "ride test" The coaching and tips for staying alive on the road are worth the price of admission. It's something that stays with you. | ||
| Dhalen32 |
John said: "The Rider's Edge instructors will get you through the course. You're paying more, but the classes are smaller, the course is shorter (in terms of days) and you are all but garunteed to pass. The only way you won't is if you dump a bike in an exam." John: I'm not sure where you got this impression but what you have said is untrue. The Rider's Edge New Rider Course takes the MSF BRC and adds some classroom activities, the use of a journal throughout the classroom and range activities and some niceties that are not typically included with the average state or community college program. We use the MSF text book, Harley and Buell bikes re-shot in the same MSF video script as well as issuing the same MSF completion card. Most states have specific requirements for license waiver requirements that Rider's Edge courses must also follow if they are even allowed to participate in the waiver process. Some states do not permit them to do so. A Rider's Edge student must pass the same written and riding skills tests. A student must achieve an 80% or better on the written test and can fail the riding test by accumulating too many penalty points in as few as just two of the 4 test exercises. The only thing correct in your statement above is that you automatically fail if you drop the bike during the riding test. If you are aware of a Rider's Edge program that does "sell" a license waiver as stated above please do all of us Rider Education folks a favor and report them to your state's DMV ASAP. They are doing the profession a disservice. Respectfully, Dave | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Why would you not want to take the MSF course? It isn't enough to know the bike works but why riding works the way it does. I rode dirtbikes when I was younger. I never knew WHY things worked. MSF provides some really good mechanical explanations for why things work the way it does. It also provides some really good common sense ways to increase safety. The other advantage is that insurance is reduced by having taken the MSF course. | ||
| Court |
As an Electrical Lineman, Pilot and Motorcycle Rider . . . I've yet to find an instance where I wish I'd had LESS training. When I was doing a great deal of test riding for money, I made it a point to attend the MSF annually and never let on that I'd been riding several thousand miles a week for the prior year. Pilot are required to engage in lots of currency training and I inevitably find some itsy-bitsy cockpit procedure that I've learned to "shortcut" without even thinking about it. I'd carefully see which program offers the best training in your area and enroll. If I couldn't decide, I'd take both. Then again . . . I'm at Columbia University getting the same Masters Degree I got from NYU.  | ||
| Barker |
You are going to spend more time and $ trying to get a blast sprocket on a XB than you will on and in the class. My class was a fun, I really enjoyed it. | ||
| Xl1200r |
Not ditching the MSF class idea as I think it's a good one, but my motorcycle road test was a joke. I was paranoid about how tightly I could make my circles and figure 8's, and I had been practicing them basically with the bars full over and doing pretty good at it. During my test, I was making some really tight circles and and hand to put a foot down quick. My tester yelled at me - not because I put my foot down, but because I had a whole parking lot to use and I was making small circles. So then I made BIG circles, using all the space I had. I passed - no points off. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
It's not about doing the minimum required. It's about building a skillset. If it is just about doing the minimum, skip the class and ride a regular motorcycle around in a parking lot until you feel you can pass the minimum test standards. | ||
| Xb9er |
make it easy on yourself and just do the msf course. I had a blast on my 250 suzuki dual sport. never drug peg so much in my life hahahahaahaha | ||
| Fresnobuell |
MSF course was the best couple hundred bucks I spent. Even the guys who had been riding for years said it was beneficial. EVERYONE should have to take this course. It would save lives and make everyone a better rider. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
"John: I'm not sure where you got this impression but what you have said is untrue. The Rider's Edge New Rider Course takes the MSF BRC and adds some classroom activities, the use of a journal throughout the classroom and range activities and some niceties that are not typically included with the average state or community college program." 1) I took Edge at Milwaukee HD this past april. 2) My instructors were very very clear in that they'd do everything possible to get you through the course and that meant if they needed to give more personalized instruction to get you through, they would (BOTH ROAD AND WRITTEN TESTS). The only way you wouldn't pass is if you'd dump the bike. PERIOD. You failed to mention that you can take the written exam more than once!!!! 3) I never said you were "buying" your endorsement. I stated that the course was shorter than the MSF offered through a local tech school, the classes were smaller and its more expensive than MSF. A) I paid more for more personal instruction B) The course was 5 days long (2 on the range) C) I aced my road course D) My instructors and instruction were excellent. Where's the untruth in anything I posted originally? Quit reading things into what's posted instead of what was. (Message edited by buellinachinashop on November 02, 2007) | ||
| Doughnut |
MSF! Done it 3 times and passed all. Learned more every time. | ||
| Dbird29 |
Best time at an MSF class was on their little 250 dual sport. I try to take a class every few years. | ||
| Lions |
Not me.... I just ride cautiously all the time and that alone is a learning experience unto itself... | ||
| Dhalen32 |
John: Sorry if I overreacted in my response to your post. I felt that you had implied that by taking a Rider's Edge class that you would automatically get your license. My mistake if that was not what you meant. However you did say this: "you are all but garunteed to pass. The only way you won't is if you dump a bike in an exam" and that is what is not true. You can fail either the written test or the riding test and not pass the class as a result. Dumping the bike is not the only way to fail the class. I also said that different states have different procedures they follow for license waiver purposes. We allow a retest for failing either test here in Nebraska and most people who return to retest end up passing the course and securing their endorsement. Not everyone does however, nor are they able to simply retest repeatedly until they pass. At some point the student must retake the entire class. As an internet forum our words reach a lot of people throughout the country and the world. I wanted to make sure, for clarity, that a Rider's Edge class was not perceived by others reading this thread as somehow easier to pass than an MSF BRC class. that is simply not true since they are essentially the same class. Harley-Davidson and Rider's Edge take a lot of criticism in the rider education community since a lot of people assume that if you take a class at a dealer that you will get your license ... guaranteed. Again, sorry if I over-reacted and I'm glad you had a good experience at Milwaukee H-D. Dave | ||
| Dynasport |
If you take the class, and I definitely think you should, just be sure you go in with a teachable attitude. I took the course after a looonngg break from riding and had to remind myself I was there to learn and not think I knew it all already. We had a wide range of people in my class, from older men just getting into the sport to young women who decided they wanted to know what it felt like to ride instead of being a passenger. We actually had two people fail the course. Both were young guys who had been riding without an endorsement. One had wrecked pretty bad and had been ordered to take the class by a judge, the other just decided it was the easy way to get the endorsement so he could ride legal. Neither thought they needed to actually LEARN anything. So they didn't pay attention, they didn't respect the instructors, and when it came time to actually do the riding test they couldn't do the silly maneuvers they had been making fun of. Everyone else passed. Not everyone did great, and a few I was a bit concerned about seeing on the road, but they could do the low speed maneuvers required by the course and I think they understood they needed more practice before undertaking more challenging riding. So please, be teachable. It's a waste otherwise. | ||
| Diablobrian |
I am still a little disturbed that our government bases their opinion of the ability of a rider to handle interstate highways, night riding, and riding with a passenger on how well you can navigate a parking lot obstacle course in day light at nearly a walking pace. It's like basing your opinion of how good a driver is based on how well they can control a remote control car through an obstacle course. The skill sets are different. I understand that they expect a person to spend enough time in the saddle to become familiar with how to operate in widely varied conditions, but that is, in many cases, a faulty assumption. People rent or borrow a different (smaller) bike than the one they will be riding day to day and otherwise subvert the rules as written. I'm not saying I have the answer, but an escorted test ride through varied road conditions would be a much better indicator of how well a rider can handle traffic and stressful riding situations than donuts and a slalom in a parking lot. But I could be wrong.... I do wholeheartedly endorse MSF/rider's edge programs and wish that they were required not only to get your license, but also periodically as refreshers in order to keep the endorsement. (Message edited by diablobrian on November 05, 2007) | ||
| Bumblebee |
I would HATE to try and go through that tight little circle on the XB, I think I could do it- but a smaller bike would be a better idea. Also: +1 for the MSF | ||
| Diablobrian |
Imagine if you could not physically move your weight on the seat while riding (like me). The current system is biased against those with disabilities. I know several people that use outriggers on linear actuators at low speed to keep themselves from tipping. Some officers allow them to use them on the course, others fail them before they move an inch because they cannot follow the letter of the law. Technically they are correct in that stance, but COME ON! | ||
| Jstfrfun |
I dont know about you guys but I've found that we all do alot of low speed manuvering in the day to day ride, If you cant do it then get a three wheeler, I loaned my 125 scooter to a older guy that had problems with his driving test on his 1300 v-star, shure he passed the test and got his m/c license, two weeks later he's in a cast with a broken tibia from a low speed dump. He should have taken a class and got the one on one that he needed. I'll think again before I loan somebody my scooter for there test again. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
"I am still a little disturbed that our government bases their opinion of the ability of a rider to handle interstate highways, night riding, and riding with a passenger on how well you can navigate a parking lot obstacle course in day light at nearly a walking pace." I agree 100%. There's alot more than being able to do "The Box" and stopping quick. A night exam and a real ride should be mandatory. Dave, After reading my original post, you're right, I shouldn't have simplified the Edge course. I will say this, by taking the Harley course, if you experience problems, you're more apt to get the help you need to pass the course than with the state program. You have the availability of more personal instruction. | ||
| Prowler |
After 20 years of riding I took the MSF course in WI as required to become an instructor. Had much fun and was a nice "tune-up" for riding. I went thru the local tech school and found the instruction was great. Two people failed (and should have) even after much personal instruction after class.... Some people just were never meant to be on a 2 wheeled vehicle. I still find it amazing how fast the instructors can get people with no experience riding a bike by the end of the first day. Definitely take the course if you have it available. (Message edited by prowler on November 19, 2007) | ||
| Dhalen32 |
John: I teach both and there is certainly more opportunity to help struggling individuals at a Rider's Edge site. We do not rush people through and have more time and resources available to help. That is due to the philosophy that H-D/Buell has taken with the program. The funding is there and the desire to create a "customer for life" are strong motivators to take a kinder and gentler approach. The riding test problem you raise is true. The big issue with a bike, of course, is that no examiner in his right mind would climb on a bike with a new rider for a test. It's bad enough in a car!  Unfortunately, in the United States most citizens would not put up with the rigorous training and testing required in places like Japan and Europe. I view MSF and Rider's Edge training as a step in the right direction and hope that it starts individuals down a path where they take follow on classes such as MSF ERC, Lee Parks' ARC, Streetmasters, CA Superbike School, CLASS, etc. Dave |
