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Grndskpr
| | Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2003 - 02:14 pm: | 
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It takes time, experience, and a significant investment to develop a world class street bike based racing machine and in turn get the street version into mass production and to the showroom floor.
100% correct, BUT you have to be racing to begin with, otherwise all you inovations are avaliable only in street form, if there is no racing program all data comes from test mules with little to no real worl experience, similar to the early blast problems, all test rider know how to ride, once released to riders who dont, there was a problem with the rear or front sproket(can not remeber which), an issue that never came up in testing because test riders didnt or dont do what some inexperience riders subject machines to, the point, racing help in the development game, no racing, less development, a moot point due to the fact that Buells target is street riders, not racers, making the entire original point(AMA against Buell) crazy due to the fact that there is NOT an interested in racing(maybe thats my point after all)
Are you contending that Buell should go out and gather up a bunch of aftermarket performance parts in order to help assemble a world class street bike based racing machine
Think about this, isnt that what they did with the RR1000, and RS1200, name the parts Buell made for that bike, what a frame, handle bars what else?? PM wheels and brakes, March fork, body work designed but made off site, HD controls, HD motor works shock, come on Blake they have done it before, no reason not to do it now, even HD had a Rotax motor in there military Spec bike, its not so far off the wall, especially if you look at it from a realistic perspective
When I see FP1's sitting on the showroom floor in Dallas, Texas for under $20,000 I'll mark the end of that particular superbike's development cycle.
Funny, you would put a price tag LOWER than several HD models allready avaliable, and within 3 and 4 grand of the original buells built over a decade ago, How do you arrive at this price???
The discussion in which I thought we were engaged, was about the duration required to create a world beater superbike that is also mass produced and available to the public on a wide scale for use on public roads outside of exclusively Poland or Malaysia.
If this is the case then bringing up aprilla and there little road going 125's and 250's is pointless, have you ever seen one on the street in the US???? or outside Italy???Now your just manipulating
I thought we were discussing the level of executive support that is required of HDI and HD senior executives to promote the success of BMC and the relative ability of Buell to get a competitive world class street bike racing platform to market.
Ok back to topic(which is way far from the original) What do they need to do????Do they need to start a racing program??Do they need to throw money at the issue, do they need to build a bike thats a little bigger, or leave Buell alone to stand on its own merits???I have no idea, but i personally would like to see an H2O cooled, trelis framed, Dual rim braked, 6 speed, 100hp bike, is that to much to as for???Maybe but i can wish/speculate and dream all i like, but in reality until i start my own motorcycle company i will never know how it works or the pain need to do it, but i think thats why there are so many people who still talk about it, i guess many feel it could be so much more
Later
Roger
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Rocketman
| | Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2003 - 03:13 pm: |
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If this is the case then bringing up aprilla and there little road going 125's and 250's is pointless, have you ever seen one on the street in the US???? or outside Italy???Now your just manipulating
I suspect they're not in the US because they are\were 2 strokes. The UK is littered with 'em Roger as is most of western Europe I suspect.
It takes time, experience, and a significant investment to develop a world class street bike based racing machine and in turn get the street version into mass production and to the showroom floor.
Bollocks guys! Bring me the dollars and I'll show you how it's done and in short time too, ok! Ever play fantasy racing? You think reality is much different, save the hurdles?
Rocket 
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Imonabuss
| | Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2003 - 03:24 pm: |
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BenM2, the Roadracing World endurance class entry XB9R is leading the points in its class after finishing second at VIR this weekend. Doesn't sound like an endurance problem after all.
Buell motorcycles may not have ever won the Pro Thunder series, but it took a full factory backed effort from Ducati and a world superbike rider to stop them. Also, I think they finished second in the points four out of the five years Pro Thunder existed.
So, what is this crap about Buell not being interested in racing? Buell started with racing, are funding significant purse money in FUSA Thunderbike, and have funded Lightning series and the Pro-Thunder series. There is a factory support truck at every FUSA race to help out privateers with parts and information. It's absurd and ignorant to say they are not interested in racing.
What Buell is not interested in is building Japanese replicas. So, where the class structures are set up around Japanese IL4's, they decided not to compete. Very simple, I do not think that is going to change, and I don't see why it should. The organizations should have classes that attract all brands. |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2003 - 07:33 pm: |
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The problem I have with that Bussman, with Moto GP any configuration went when they went to 4 stroke racing. Honda brought us a V5, Suzuki a V4, Yamaha an IL-4, Kawasaki an IL-4, Ducati a V4, Aprilia an IL-3, Proton a V5, etc etc. World Superbike, Ducati ripped the shit outta the series with a V Twin, what did Honda do? Ask Colin Edwards he'll tell ya.
End of the day, Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, Kawasaki, Aprilia, Ducati, Proton, Benelli, Foggy, Gilera, KTM, Malaguti and Derbi all circuit race at world level. Harley, Buell and Triumph are the ONLY noticeable absentees at world level .
I think the point is, and has been for years, is when are Buell gonna jump in and have a go given they seem so interested or is all they can afford possibly a support truck at a race meet or two on home soil? Shame for the Buell fans then.
The pace of change is very fast in anything these days, motorcycles are no exception. Maybe now is the time to change the way Buells are powered and maybe then Buell could enter the racing fray proper.
Rocket
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S320002
| | Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2003 - 07:54 pm: |
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Don't forget Polaris, big bucks company with nothing but cruisers. |
Smadd
| | Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2003 - 11:23 pm: |
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Lot's of Aprilia 250's in Florida. Saw some every week. There's even one that I know of in little Athens, Ohio. |
Blake
| | Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2003 - 11:26 pm: |
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Rocket,
"End of the day, Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, Kawasaki, Aprilia, Ducati, Proton, Benelli, Foggy, Gilera, KTM, Malaguti and Derbi all circuit race at world level. Harley, Buell and Triumph are the ONLY noticeable absentees at world level."
I disagree...
BMW, Moto Guzzi? |
Blake
| | Posted on Monday, June 30, 2003 - 02:37 am: |
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Roger,
I don't understand at all your comments wrt needing a racing program first and relating it to the Blast rear sprocket???
Buell is not interested in racing??? That's about as ludicrous as saying that Ducati is not interested in selling street bikes.
The RR1000, though an awesome achievement, was not mass produced. Did it used an existing engine from another manufacturer, or a bunch of aftermarket hot rod parts? 
I don't know of "several HD models" with list prices over $20K. But okay, make it $25,000. Anything more than that is not a mass produced machine; it won't be selling sufficiently to make it one.
See Rocket's comment wrt Aprilia. They are all over the place in Europe. They sell okay over here as well.
Why specify liquid cooling? I REALLY like the idea of further improving/enhancing the ducted and forced air cooling of the XB9. I hate radiators and dripping spewing coolant! A 2nd rim brake would be terrible overkill and completely defeats its core purpose, to reduce the unsprung mass and bike mass in general. Unless you are going for 150+ mph, there's no need for six gears is there? I guess some people might like an overdrive for highway cruising. I can see that. Maybe an XB12R will come into being that will meet that requirement? I guess we might know in another month or so.
It's just too bad there's no place in AMA Pro Racing for such a bike to race. |
José_quiñones
| | Posted on Monday, June 30, 2003 - 08:05 am: |
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quote:...but it took a full factory backed effort from Ducati and a world superbike rider to stop them
If the AMS Ducati 748 was a factory effort, Buell's was even more so. You can't have it both ways.
By any measurable standard (unobtanium parts, factory employees in the team and supporting in the pits, etc) Buell had more factory involvement in the Hal's bikes than Ducati did on the AMS bike, that bike was Jeff's handywork.
Please stop spreading that myth. RRW shot that myth down when Mihael Hannas rode the Pro Thunder spec AMS 748 a few issues ago.
Their rider/bike combination was better than what Buell had that year, it's as simple as that.
_____________________________________________________________________
I had a great time at VIR this weekend, got to meet and greet with everybody again, work in the Tilley pits for a few minutes, confirm some rumours, and learn some new ones......
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Grndskpr
| | Posted on Monday, June 30, 2003 - 08:09 am: |
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There is a factory support truck at every FUSA race to help out privateers with parts and information. It's absurd and ignorant to say they are not interested in racing.
Than show me a FACTORY backed team, like yosh suzuki, honda america or Erion, Kawasaki, if there isnt a factory abcked team, i dont feel there interested in racing in the AMA, support for the racers is great, however along with the Buell truck you will see Dunlop, Parts unlimited, and numerous other suppliers, however no factory supported team(dealer suported dosnt count due to the fact that Buell/HD dealers are independantly owned and operated)
I suspect they're not in the US because they are\were 2 strokes.
Exactly but Blake said:
You saw pictures of some bikes? LOL!
One contention is that i doubt Blake has seen many regestered Aprilla 2 strokes, hence this comment makes him look foolish to some extent, yes there are race bikes over here, most were sold out of Blackmans, however they were brought over for the AMA's Aprilla Cup races, another race that has been brought to a screching halt, however they were not ment for the street, so we bring up 2 points, Blake may have not seen a raod going Aprilla 2 stroke, so making the Foggy reference is hipocritical, and 2, Buell is NOT the only company messed with by the AMA
Did it used an existing engine from another manufacturer, or a bunch of aftermarket hot rod parts?
Actually i would say it used an existing engine, that has a bunch of aftermarket hod rod parts, have you ever seen those heads, or the dual carbs, kinda cool, but at the time HD and Buell were totaly seperate for all intents and purposes
I hate radiators and dripping spewing coolant!
How many bikes have you owned that spew coolant, i never have seen it, on any of the bikes i have owned, plus on the track its just H2O, you know that, my reason for H2O is reliability, and longevity, i see it every day in my industry, water cooling prolongs life due in part to the constant temp of the motor, it can be 100 or 50, and the engine runs at a relative constant, improving longevity, i now have a picture of Blake driving to work in a VW beetle, nice and air cooled, no coolant to worry about, but a little tuff in those hot texas months, but again, no coolant pouring out you engine
I disagree...
BMW, Moto Guzzi?
Boxer cup for BMW and Guzzi is in serious recovery mode, but if you see aprilla racing you see Guzzi, they are after all the same company, funny you didnt mention HD??? |
José_quiñones
| | Posted on Monday, June 30, 2003 - 08:12 am: |
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quote:It's just too bad there's no place in AMA Pro Racing for such a bike to race.
Or in any other National sanctioning body in the world. The AMA is no different than the FIM and everybody else.
Next year AMA Formula Extreme will look very similar to the current FUSA Sportbike rules, and it didn't take "some guy walking around the paddock with a camera" to figure out that the unlimited twins belong in AMA FX and not in Superstock or Supersport.
But I guess that my "racing credentials" are not as good as Mike Ciccotto's so the AMA and some people here did not consider a worthy suggestion until he suggested it in RRW. |
Smadd
| | Posted on Monday, June 30, 2003 - 08:55 am: |
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As I write this, I'm looking out my office window at an Aprilia 250 parked under a balcony. And this is SE Ohio in "the sticks". When I was in Florida, I saw numerous 250s. You do know what they look/sound like, right? I don't profess to know the legality of their sales or operation... "gray market" or whatever... but they're here. |
Smadd
| | Posted on Monday, June 30, 2003 - 10:09 am: |
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Why did I write the above? What was the question?? Monday confusion reigns. |
Court
| | Posted on Monday, June 30, 2003 - 12:55 pm: |
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Buell's presence in the pits is much more a marketing than racing effort. The bulkm of the funds, I'd hazard, come from marketing.
I will say it one more time...if Erik Buell decides to race, you'll know. He'll have about as many second place finishes as Aaron Wilson has at Bonneville.
Some folks just don't get it. . .
Court
(who loaned all the radio equipment to Henry and Gary at Daytona one year because the was NO budget) |
Grndskpr
| | Posted on Monday, June 30, 2003 - 01:23 pm: |
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if Erik Buell decides to race, you'll know. He'll have about as many second place finishes as Aaron Wilson has at Bonneville.
That is an acurate statement, however if true, no need to allow Buell in as far as rules are concerned(original topic) when he wants in, he will be required to petition like Ducati, and show the AMA he is serious about racing, i am very sure he will be allowed in, as i am sure Ducati will be allowed in, now that they have shown interest(something they have not done before, at least at the level i belive they will be in it next year)
Roger |
S320002
| | Posted on Monday, June 30, 2003 - 01:56 pm: |
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Court,
"Some folks just don't get it. . ."
So much truth in so few words.
Greg
edited by S320002 on June 30, 2003 |
Blake
| | Posted on Monday, June 30, 2003 - 04:04 pm: |
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Roger,
The RR1000 used stock Harley-Davidson XR1000 engines, did it not? Please keep the personal comments out of the discussion. I am not being hypocritical! Aprilia sells thousands upon thousands of their race replica two stroke street bikes. Whether you know it or not, they sell a lot of them here too. I've seen and sat on street legal 50cc and 125cc Aprilias more than once. The FP1 is not a mass produced product by any sense of the term. Maybe it will some day become a mass produced street bike. I hope it does, but right now it is not.
"Buell is NOT the only company messed with by the AMA"
That is certainly true. They've buggered Triumph, Guzzi, and others too. You need to reread the title of this topic. I've never implied that Buell racers were the sole victims of AMAPR's pro Japan Inc. bias.
My experiences with liquid cooled motorcycles are quite a bit different from yours. Every single liquid cooled vehicle I've ever owned has at one time or another overheated and blew nasty coolant spewage all over the place. Every . . single . . . one.
I've seen Hondas at the track do it on a number of occasions. I've seen Hondas on the street do it. I've seen Yamahas belch steam and spew coolant. Toyota, Ford, Nissan, Oldsmobile, Chevy, Chrysler, Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, Kawasaki, Triumph... I've seen them all give up their guts and blow coolant all over the place making a complete mess of the engine and everything around it.
It's tough to believe you've never experienced an overheated liquid cooled engine. Maybe it's the 100o Texas heat, but even in PA, overheating engines were not a strange or unknown occurrence. I worked at a service station during High School. You ever see all the fan belts and radiator hoses a service station keeps in stock? It's for a reason. I've seen at least five failed water pumps on family vehicles and those of friends. I've seen multiple failed thermostats that led to overheating. I've personally had to repair or replace radiators three times due to fatigue cracks.
Thermostats, radiators, radiator caps, hoses, water pumps/bearings, electric fan motors, fan motor relays... if any one of those components fail, you are done for the day on a liquid cooled bike. Gotta put water in for the track day, I hope you remember to add antifreeze before the temperature drops below freezing. Those are just a bunch more things I don't want to have to worry about or maintain. FYI, there are plenty of old VW's in Texas. A good friend of mine drives a nice 1968 model. They do just fine. My Buell may get hot; but it just keeps on going. I run a good synthetic oil. No worries.
Ducati has not shown interest in AMA racing?  "> Maybe not in the last few years. Before that?
Do you really want to argue that the friggin' BMW Boxer Cup is "circuit racing at the world level"? It ain't. Please, let's get back on topic.
JQ,
Glad to see you back here. Was wondering if you made it to VIR. Did you see Eric Wood crash the Kosko XB9R? Sounded like one for the highlight film. Glad he was okay.
As to your comment that FIM is no different from AMAPR... I have to disagree. FIM is not like AMAPR. FIM allows the Ducati 749 to race in Supersport. They require restrictor plates on 1,000cc inline four superbikes to create parity among fours and twins. They give significant weight advantages to bikes with fewer cylinders in MotoGP. AMAPR does none of that. I would certainly call FUSA a "national sanctioning body."
Did you write to AMAPR? While I applaude that proactive deed, did you really expect your letter to generate any action/response from the lying jerks running AMAPR? Did you see the recent revelations on RRW concerning their (AMAPR executives) complete lack of integrity? It is interesting that there has been no rebuttal. Some VERY strong statements were made. It seems Mr. Buell is not alone in his assessment of the AMAPR executive management. What do you think now? Are they liars?
http://venus.13x.com/roadracingworld/scripts/NewsInsert.asp?insert=6456
http://venus.13x.com/roadracingworld/scripts/NewsInsert.asp?insert=6379
http://venus.13x.com/roadracingworld/scripts/NewsInsert.asp?insert=6373
http://venus.13x.com/roadracingworld/scripts/NewsInsert.asp?insert=6374
(read the editorial comments) |
Dynarider
| | Posted on Monday, June 30, 2003 - 04:14 pm: |
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Whether you know it or not, they sell a lot of them here too. I've seen and sat on street legal 50cc and 125cc Aprilias more than once
Very true. I have checked out the 50cc ones at Corse superbikes a number of times. They also have either a 125 or a 250 sitting up there...dont recall which it was..anyways I sat on it & was suprised how light it was. Looks like a full sized GP machine & I thought it might be a tad bit heavier...I almost tossed it on its side it was so light
If I had the extra $$$ one of those would make a great little track bike. |
Grndskpr
| | Posted on Monday, June 30, 2003 - 05:29 pm: |
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The RR1000 used stock Harley-Davidson XR1000 engines, did it not?
Are you going to sit there an say the XR1000 was a mass produced engine???If so i will look up the numbers, and will then have an acurate basis for what you consider production
It's tough to believe you've never experienced an overheated liquid cooled engine
I maintain my engines with extreme care, and drive over 25 miles each way to work, never has happened, close once on an FZX 700 in rush hour traffic, but didnt actually over heat, maybe i am lucky
I've seen and sat on street legal 50cc and 125cc Aprilias more than once.
Street legal mass produced 2 stroke bikes in the US have been illegal since 1986(RZ350) the 50cc you refer to is actually a 49.9, putting it under the limit and making it a scooter, all other bikes are grey market, or regestered in a round about fashion, the average individual would find very difficult(usually requiring a broker, and brought in from Canada) so i would bet you have seen a few, but doubt you could go buy on from a dealer, meaning you could not buy a new one, and ride down the street, so whats the definition of mass produced, how many?? and where???
Do you really want to argue that the friggin' BMW Boxer Cup is "circuit racing at the world level"? It ain't. Please, let's get back on topic.
Lets see, they race all over the world, require you to use a basically stock bike, BMW puts up tons of cash, what more do you want, you never are happy, wish Buell would have considered something like this, great advertising, great racing, and some of the best racing i saw at Daytons, spec classes leave something out, but fun to watch none the less, sounds like you have a grudge against BMW since the whole letter thing, oh well, Court's right, some people dont get it
Ducati has not shown interest in AMA racing? "> Maybe not in the last few years. Before that?
Again, we are talking current events here, are we not, name the LAST factory backed team in the US with a current model Race Ducati, HMC had last years, as does Austin, so when was it???
Roger
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Rocketman
| | Posted on Monday, June 30, 2003 - 08:27 pm: |
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Blake BMW can't afford a serious racing effort, all their funds are tied up winning in Formula 1! Sorry I just couldn't resist that one LOL.
It's amazing where this topic has been really but are we not arguing the point that Buell are more than capable of building a world beating race bike if they so wanted to? That's my argument. If Buell feel so vehement about racing why don't they just get on with it?
Can I just say with regard to the Foggy stuff, the only reason I use Foggy as a reference point is because they are racing at world level, a level at which they have arrived at with money. If money can get them from zero to where they are today in such a short period of time what's stopping Buell? It has nothing to do with how many bikes they produce does it?
No I don't get it and I wish someone would explain it pure and simple like say Mr Buell himself or one of his trusty disciples, please.
Rocket
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Blake
| | Posted on Monday, June 30, 2003 - 09:45 pm: |
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Yes, I believe that the XR1000 was a mass produced motorcycle.
If you want to put the BMW Cup on par with MotoGP or World Superbike, have at it. I refuse argue with such logic.
FYI, I am pretty much always happy. I don't "have a grudge" against any person or any company, especially BMW. Life is good. Very good.
That said... What the hell is your point in all this? Are you going somewhere with it or do you just want to argue? I don't.
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Davegess
| | Posted on Monday, June 30, 2003 - 11:11 pm: |
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Rocket, Buell has to pay for racing out of the budget. Thei budget includes income from the saleof Buell bikes and stuff as well as any monies that may come from HD over and above the income and profits from sales. Buell has to battle for everyone of these second dollars. They get to keep all the profits from the first.
HD has deep pockets and while they like racing they see little financial gain to racing Harleys in road races. Drag racing and flat track are more important to them but even that is not a real big sales booster.
They are also interested in controlling the investment they have in Buell. They do not want to lose tons of money before buell become profitable. I believe Buell has comitted to taking all the money they can dig out of Juneau and appling it to cool street bikes.
I also believe that when Buell reaches the point of being self supporting adn has a litlle extra cash and engineering time on hand they will go racing and they will win. Just don't hold your breath waiting for this day.
Dave |
Blake
| | Posted on Monday, June 30, 2003 - 11:26 pm: |
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Rocket,
Do you know what it takes to get a bike certified for safety and emissions (noise and toxins) in N. America, W. Europe, Australia, and Japan?
There is a huge difference between putting together a viable race bike and making a couple hundred copies, versus designing a machine for mass production and entry into all the popular sport bike markets.
It takes a LOT of cash to enter a world class venue of motorcycle road racing. You want Buell to move to somewhere like Malaysia so they can obtain the cash?
It sure would be nice if BMW would step up and throw in for a Superbike effort. I guess maybe they've learned their lesson in F1... they just cannot beat the poor little Italians. LOL!
One more thing concerning the Foggy effort... You really cannot say that they are racing at the world level. Sure they are out their contesting the Ducati cup and it is their first year... But are they really competitive? Will they be competitive when the Japanese re-enter the fray? If not, what is the conclusion? |
S320002
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2003 - 01:03 am: |
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I think Dave laid it out as plain as it can be said. If you can't understand that you aren't trying or you just don't want to hear the truth.
Blake,
Don't tell anybody but BMW won the F1 race this week end.
Greg
edited by S320002 on July 01, 2003 |
Blake
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2003 - 01:38 am: |
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Greg,
Now whisper back to me how many F1 championships does BMW have? Ferrari has three in the last three years and is on their way to a fourth this year. BMW has nothing for Ferrari. Little ole Ferrari taking BMW, Mercedes, Renault, Ford, and Honda to school in F1. I love it! More than anyone else, the Italians know "fast". |
S320002
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2003 - 02:51 am: |
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Blake,
Your "How could I possibly be wrong?" attitude is getting tiresome. BMW BEAT Ferrari in a Formula 1 race this week end. Just like Buell has beat Ducati in Pro Thunder. Winning the championship doesn't erase everyone else's wins. If you were talking about championships you should have said so.
Greg |
Court
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2003 - 05:00 am: |
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>>>Yes, I believe that the XR1000 was a mass produced motorcycle
Yes, it was. I bought mine off a dealers showroom floor. In fact, the XR-1000 was *SO* mass produced as to seal it's own fate.
The price announced at the dealer show, in response to outrageous demand, was increased about $1,000. There was yet another increase before the bikes began to ship.
But when shipments began performanace was not up to representations made by the factory and required the next $1,000+ be spent for the "Speed Kit" from Jerry Branch.
Jerry was doing the stock heads that were going to HD for the project and couldn't keep up. In essence the pipeline jammed itself. Jerry couldn't get heads to HD to sell so folks could send him the heads he built to be converted to the heads he should have built.
XR's were produced in 1983 and 1984. And, like the 1977 and 1978 XLCR's there are abundant rumors about a "couple" bikes built with remaining parts that were actually VIN'd a 1985. Ain't so with the XR's...might be with 6 XLCR's.
It was a certified, and by every test imaginable, mass produced street bike. Perhaps not such a good one. But, to this day, there are few sounds in motorcycling that stir memories like Bruce Zimmerman and I, two XR's WFO between the jersey barrier in Downtown Topeka, KS at 6AM.
BMW motorcycles has long been and continues (I'd GUESS) to be underwritten by the auto side of things. That equation simply doesn't balance, that's fine. Neat bikes.
Buell's current "race" efforts are largely presence and PR. I'll say this again, "if Erik Buell decides to race, it will be quite evident". No one I've ever met has a keener sense of how many irons to keep in the fire at once as Mr. Buell. He knows racing, he knows his passion and he knows the time/mental/money committment.
Court |
Grndskpr
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2003 - 08:15 am: |
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OFF TOPIC ALERT
If you are near Chicago, please join us for the 4th, email in profile for directions:
Party on the 4th of July(NOT THE 3rd), come one come all, but, i have a dog, so you have now been fore warned, food,drink and fireworks, please email if you can make it
later
Roger
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José_quiñones
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2003 - 08:39 am: |
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quote:Glad to see you back here. Was wondering if you made it to VIR. Did you see Eric Wood crash the Kosko XB9R? Sounded like one for the highlight film. Glad he was okay.
I saw him loose the front end then I lost the view behind a hill but I saw Bike parts flying straight up in the air as the bike apparently spun itself apart. His bike hit Andrew Nelson and his bike before it tore itself apart, amazingly Andrew was ok, but it was a nasty crash all around. Jim Daniel and friends were at that turn and saw the whole thing. I don't know if anybody got pictures of it.
The worst part was that there were bike parts all over the track, and Jim and the other spectators and the racers were yelling and waving their arms at the turn marshalls to red flag the race but they would not. Then Scott Greenwood ran over some debris on the next lap and crashed, he was understandably irate and yelled at the turn marshalls some more and the race was finally red flagged. He was able to get back on the bike and get it fixed for the restart.
Rich Conrath (Innovative Motorcycle Research/Kosco) obviously was concerned about Eric's health, but he was also very concerned about the bike, because it was in a bunch of parts, and he said something to the effect that he didn't want anybody to see some of the parts. That bike, or what's left of it, is probably at the "lab" in East Troy already.
quote:As to your comment that FIM is no different from AMAPR... I have to disagree. FIM is not like AMAPR. FIM allows the Ducati 749 to
race in Supersport.
None are entered this year, because they are not competitive. Go read the FIM rulebook and tell everyone here what the minimum weights are for 600 fours and 750 twins.
The AMA is allowing 750 twins in FX, so Ducati can spend as much as they want and sponsor a factory 749 team next year if they wish. If they want to go Supersport racing, they can try to lobby the AMA, but the results would probably be the same as they are in World Supersport, they would not be competitive, ie top 10. It would be smarter for them to concentrate on FX where there are no restrictions.
Again, the FIM and the AMA and everybody National sanctioning body using production based race bikes have to write rules which reflect the type or bikes that are actually being built and sold by the manufacturers in large numbers, which today are 600 and 1000 cc inline fours. To give the less popular (sales wise) race replica twins displacement or other advantages which the manufacturers of the inline fours find unfair is the quickest way to end up with a spec class, like WSBK found out this year.
quote:They require restrictor plates on 1,000cc inline four superbikes to create parity among fours and twins.
Not next year, the WSBK rules will probably be closer to AMA Superbike rules than any other rulebook next year. No restrictors.
quote:I would certainly call FUSA a "national sanctioning body.
They are certainly trying to be a true National series, but they are not there yet.
By any measurable standard (fan attendance, media coverage/advertising for events, "big name" riders, factory team involvement, tracks/regions of the country that they race in) FUSA is closer to WERA than it is to AMA. I don't say that as an insult, it's just the facts.
FUSA rules are much more relaxed than the AMA rules, because they want as many bikes as possible to be eligible and particpate. So far they are getting pretty decent sized grids in all the classes, especially in Thunderbike, they had close to 50 bikes at Loudon this year.
They need to use all their Clear Channel resources to improve the radio/tv advertising prior to the events, and tape the races for broadcast in all the local TV stations owned by Clear Channel. Expensive, yes, but that's what it will to get the fans to the track.
quote:Did you write to AMAPR? While I applaude that proactive deed, did you really expect your letter to generate any action/response from the lying jerks running AMAPR?
No to the AMA, yes to RRW, but that was not my point. I'll quote what I wrote earlier:
quote:But I guess that my "racing credentials" are not as good as Mike Ciccotto's so the AMA and some people here did not consider it a worthy suggestion until he suggested it in RRW.
Who here was scoffing at my suggestions because the only racing I have done is "Battletrax" and I'm just some "guy walking around the paddock with a camera"?
Turns out what I proposed at the beginning of this topic (ie, Buells should moved over to FX) seems to be an idea that has gained "grassroots" support from a bunch of people with the proper "credentials", and the AMA is now considering it, and they will probably do it.
Once they do that, I expect you to keep your word and SHUT UP about this topic.
Lying and politics in racing? Wow what a revelation, Blake! Here are some other shocking truths you might not know about: Elvis is really dead, and Bush really won Florida!
There are plenty of politics going on in FUSA (if you went to any of the events you would see it firsthand), the AMA, FIM, WSBK and everybody else. RRW just loves to stick it to the AMA brass every chance they get, deservedly so in many cases.
If I had not posted the links to the shenanigans going on in Pro Thunder class and the "Take Back the AMA" campaign RRW ran a couple of years ago, none of you would have know what was going on or would have voted for Mr. Shwantz, Ulrich and Nash when you had your chance.
But what do I know, I'm just "some guy walking around the paddock with a camera"
Finally, Foggy has built 150 street legal FP1's which is about 145 more than there are 1336cc Fully Faired Firebolt race bikes with engines built in East Troy and shipped to the teams to race with. |
Elvis
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2003 - 08:49 am: |
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Elvis is really dead
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AMA Pro Racing Seeks to Please Japanese Benefactors 
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