| Author | Message | ||
     Interex2050 |
Pardon my ignorance; I know that CATIA has CAM capabilities... My question is how extensive are they? Is it only capable of writing g-code or can it actually execute the g-code? I am assuming that since I would not be using a "standard" cnc I would need to model the machine/tooling, and define the axes etc... yes? While I am at it might as well inquire about machinery as well... I am seriously considering investing in a Proxxon PD400 lathe and FF400 mill and converting them to cnc... http://www.proxxon.com/ (go to the European site) Has anyone had experience with either of those machines? They are fairly small, but I do not have the space for anything more substantial, at least they are both cast iron and appear to be proper tools. My Unimat 3 is nice, but it only has an 80% duty cycle and parts/accessories are getting harder and harder to find. And with my furnace nearing completion, I will have the capability to cast parts. So it would be nice to also be able to machine the cast components to actually make them usable... (Message edited by interex2050 on November 01, 2007) | ||
| Stevasaurus |
I think the answer is "Yes, it can create the g-code," but I am not sure how much more than that. It has been almost a year since I left my last job. We had CATIA V5 there, but our corporation was a dedicated Edge-Cam house. As a result, we were never allowed to purchase the machining modules. I can tell you that you'll most likely need a Platform 2 seat, as shown by the link below which describes the machining modules in more detail. http://www.3ds.com/products-solutions/plm-solution s/catia/portfolio/all-products/domain/Machining/?n o_cache=1&cHash=3ab52ab85a I wish I knew more so I could help you better. My new job and project engineer title are great, but sometimes I really miss my CATIA driving days. | ||
| Interex2050 |
Stevasaurus, Thanks for the help, I am going to have to dig up my old machine which still has Catia on it... And play around with that, I am almost certain that I do not have a Platform 2 seat... nor does it appear as though I would be able to afford it. I remember seeing an affordable CAM package a while back (something in the range of $200-500?), and I think that will be my best bet... I do remember really enjoying Catia's modeling/drawing capabilities/styles, and their nifty "sub-programs"... On the other hand I do not miss the non-dynamic assembly methods; which is curious because Solidworks is owned by the same company yet they have a fabulous dynamic assembly method... Thanks, Peter | ||
| Tq_freak |
Peter, I'll give me buddy a call and ask him. He just got a job with freightliner and all they use is Catia. Im not sure how many machined parts they make/have made but it never hurts to ask. On the same note, I have had some good luck with mastercam. Pretty easy to use, generates the g-code and gives you a visual with your tool paths so you can machine it on screen. I only worked with it for a semester at school so I dont really know how well it works real world. Hope this all helps. | ||
| Interex2050 |
Tq_freak, That is very kind of you, thank you. I will look into Mastercam, I still cannot seem to figure out what software that I saw a couple of years back... perhaps it was MACH? But if that is the case their site used to much more impressive... Best, Peter | ||
| Ducxl |
Do you really need the complexity of CAM to run your machines? Are you machining cavities for molds? And are you ready to invest in the post processors necessary to allow your CAM program to write the individual programs (machine specific)? | ||
| Steve_mackay |
Interex, tell your needs, and I can most likely suggest something far cheaper than Mastercam. Catia has some quite capable CAM options, but it ain't cheap. I remember seeing an affordable CAM package a while back (something in the range of $200-500?), and I think that will be my best bet... Look at Mecsoft visualmill for around $875 http://www.novedge.com/products/1573 | ||
| Mikej |
I figured Steve would be along soon enough. I'm just functionally getting my feet wet with Catia so I'll just keep the bench warm on this one. | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Interex, what kind of furnace you setting up? How big? | ||
| Interex2050 |
I still have a lot of research to do when it comes to the process of setting up and operating a cnc set-up (there are a few books I have my eye on)... So far I think I have the basic layout figured out (please correct me if I am wrong)... -CAM: will allow me to take my CAD files and will enable me to more or less "automatically" generate tool paths (after telling the CAM software the capabilities of my machine/tooling; be it modeling the machine within the software etc...) -Controller software/interface (Is this called the post-processor?) (i.e. MACH, TurboCNC, etc...) to talk to the Stepper controller and execute the g-code written by CAM/myself. -Controller/amplifier: to take the commands given by the software and powering the stepper motors, which in turn operate the machine. The reasons I want to be able to use CAM is that I do not want to be limited/hindered by the complexity of having to figure out how to program beyond simple geometric patterns (Yet I am sure that it is still going to be a very involved process) I would like to have the capability to not only machine parts, but also the molds for casting (be it cold cast plastic, or metals) I guess what my end goal really is: To learn as much as I can, and become familiar enough with the "nitty-gritty" of the whole process not to be tied down by the lack understanding. And to create my own miniature "shop", capable of producing complex components/assemblies. The freedom/ability to bring my ideas to life independent of anyone else. Then also the time aspect of it (despite the initial investment), if I automate the process as much as possible I can have the machine create the parts for me giving the ability to multi-task. The thing is that the CNC aspect is not something that I will be able to organize for a while; my first step is to purchase the machines and familiarize myself with their/my manual capabilities. My furnace is rather simple... It is an artificially aspirated natural gas burner, coupled with a "firebrick" column. The enclosure probably has the capacity to handle a 2 liter crucible, while the burner is probably capable of much more. I realize that I am young and ambitious, but I figure if I can pull it off then great if not at least I will learn a lot. Again I would like to thank everyone for their support and interest. | ||
| Djkaplan |
Solidworks is owned by the same company yet they have a fabulous dynamic assembly method... I worked with Catia years ago. I remember they were own by Dassault Industries back then and the manuals were literally translated from the the French... "Is easy... no?". Uh, yes.... er, I mean no? | ||
| Ducxl |
ROCK-ON Interex!!!! I'm only Vocational schooled in machine shop.When i began getting stuck when complex angles met radii an older educated engineer told me HE could simply draw the part then measure the coordinates.That was AutoCad release 10 that I first learned on.I later attended the local Community college to learn AutoCad.That was as far as MY college education went.CAD is my best tool EVER.I like CAM but hate "canned cycles".I prefer more control over my tool path.That said,i'd be lost trying to mill a mold cavity.ROCK-ON dude,i'm eager to hear your progress! | ||
| Ducxl |
Stepper motors SUCK.Servos are where it's at. | ||
| Steve_mackay |
When i began getting stuck when complex angles met radii an older educated engineer told me HE could simply draw the part then measure the coordinates. Lucky you. On the shop floor, you didn't always have that luxury of Autocad, or any cad system on the floor. I like CAM but hate "canned cycles".I prefer more control over my tool path.That said,i'd be lost trying to mill a mold cavity Sometimes canned cycles are way faster, and more efficient than CAM. Especially for common and repetitive tasks. I've written a number of macro programs on the controls to do some pretty advanced stuff. Back in the day, before cam was cheap and plentiful, I've done entire mold cavities at the control, using macros. The problem with that, each MFG has a different macro language, and cycles. The two best have been Fidia and Sharnoa. Both had very powerful macro languages. These days, I don't do much machining, unless it's some hairy 3D stuff. I spend my days drawing 3D pictures of molds all day  Interex, if you need any help, feel free to ask. I've been doing this for more years than I care to remember | ||
| Interex2050 |
The thing is that I never had any formal training on any CAD platform... Almost everything I know about CAD systems I have figured out with the aid of the almighty internet and tutorials... -My first introduction was not actually a cad program at all it was 3dstudio max, this was back in 1998? (I never got much further then being able to take parts from different sample models and putting them together and making simple animations with them) -A year or so later (back when Intellicad was free) I got ahold of that and began to fiddle with that, I did not get much further then being to make simple parts. -In 2001, I got a copy of AutoCAD R14... This time I had much greater success with CAD. I learned the command prompt commands and was actually able to make usable parts. Although assemblies proved to be a nightmare in AutoCAD. I was aware of the existence of Solidworks and Inventor, but refused to try them because they did not use a command prompt. -Finally in early 2005 I decided to try Solidworks, after completing several of the tutorials; I was blown away, especially when it came to assemblies. -In the spring of this year I wanted to try something new and exciting... At first I tried Unigraphics NX, and was pleased overall but some elementary operations were unnecessarily painful to do so I stopped learning NX. Soon after I tried Catia and was thrilled by its capabilities and its similarity to Solidworks but with the added features. Today I primarily use Solidworks because that is what I use at work and am most familiar with... And now I will start a new chapter, CNC/CAM... So the difference between servo/stepper is; the controller assumes the stepper will not miss a step as it does not have a feedback, while a servo is just a motor with a feedback sensor so the controller gets dynamic feedback as to how much the motor actually turned? So much to learn... I cant imagine that anything too exciting will be happening for a while, as I will be primarily familiarizing myself with vocabulary and basic principals. Again thank you so much for all the support and motivation. P.S. Steve I may have to take you up on that offer if I get stuck on something. | ||
| Interex2050 |
Perhaps for starters I should set up a "cnc" router table...? I would be able to build it myself, thus the cost would be lower. And it would still teach me the basics and give me the confidence to continue... | ||
| Steve_mackay |
Interex, I've not taken much more training than you have. I can count the number of days I've spent in training on over half a dozen Cad/Cam systems in the past 20 years on 1 hand. The latest cad/cam system I use I've not had 1 minute of training. I surprised our VAR with the jobs he's seen(from submitting bug reports)out of me without any training. I don't think the software will be a problem learning. It's going to be feeds, speeds, chipload, tooling selection, and what type of toolpath would be most efficient for the task at hand. This is something that's difficult to teach. Trial and error. And get ready to crash the machine a few times | ||
| Interex2050 |
Steve, Experience over training, I like it... Is there a book/document you could point me to as guidelines for feeds/speeds/chiploads/tooling? I was thinking of purchasing some of the Audel books on machining... | ||
| Ducxl |
Is there a book/document you could point me to as guidelines for feeds/speeds/chiploads/tooling? Easy one..."Machinerys Handbook" is the universal reference for machinists.Gives ALL of the dimensions you'd ever need for machining threads too. Strengths&properties of all materials,Machinability of metal,heat treatment specs. That's the book you want.Sandvik also publishes another one relative to machining metals with their tooling inserts | ||
| Steve_mackay |
Ducxl speaks the truth on that one for sure. Any machinist worth anything has a "Bible"<aka> in his tool box. Mine sits at my desk as well as my trusty HP RPN calculator | ||
| Interex2050 |
You are right... It does have it in there, I must have missed it the first time around... I have the 17th edition and within the speed/feed section its all clumped together on one little table... it cant run away anymore I have a post-it in there now! Bwahahaha! My HP 33s rarely leaves my side... I also gave in to temptation and bought a compound table for my drill press... I have an older proxxon drill press (TBM 115 I think) and just bought the KT70 table for it... not quite what I initially planned to get, but hey a mill for $100 not bad... Not to mention it will provide a good test subject...   except mine is all black... (doesn't have the John Deere theme to it) | ||
| Interex2050 |
A waste of time... Probably Satisfying? Very    The main reason I am modeling my drill press is that I need to figure out how add a fine z-axis control... I think I got it, more on that later... Not to mention I have realized how much that little drill press has changed over the years... Also, could not resist and I purchased 4 stepper motors a controller with a g-code processor... This should be very interesting... | ||
| Djkaplan |
SolidWorks is my weapon of choice right now...  The carts in the trailer are loaded with OkraCola, btw. | ||
| Steve_mackay |
Right now, I'm using a product very little have heard of... VX. Used to be called Varimetrix. It was the 1st PC based hybrid modeler. It's based on it's own architecture(VS Parasolid or Acis). It's a joy to use for what I do. It treats solids(shapes) and surfaces EXACTLY the same. It doesn't care if it's a non-watertight solid. We bought it because of the deal we got at IMTS 3 years ago. $2K for their end-to-end suite. That includes mold design, sheet metal design, reverse engineering, photo-realistic rendering, and full 3D cam built in. This is normally a $10K package. Which is a deal in itself VS their competition. But $2K? SOLD! It's worked out exceptionally well for what we use it for. I've even modeled up the ultimate job.... BEER(well, beer foam) Here's a simple rendering of the beer foam.  Here's the final molded part.  I wish they didn't gate right in the center of the part, but they were being cheap. You wouldn't believe how easy and fast that part was to model up in VX, using "point morphing" functions. | ||
| Interex2050 |
Very nice trailer... Would make a great portable shop... MMMM OkraCola I remember you telling me about VX, I actually got around to contacting them... Only to realize that I do not have the justification nor available funds to get the package; but for 2K, very nice. Oh goodness, Beer foam... That is some incredible stuff, Solidworks would have tried to kill me if I did something like that. Although Catia, does have their freeform modeling function (sadly I have not yet learned how to successfully use it...). | ||
| Djkaplan |
"That is some incredible stuff, Solidworks would have tried to kill me if I did something like that." During my only conversation with Erik Buell (at MBII), CAD software was one of the topics we chatted about (as well as guitars). He mentioned that the difficulty utilizing free form shapes with SolidWorks was what lead them to Think 3 software. That was an interesting conversation. | ||
| Interex2050 |
I can certainly understand the frustration... After my multiple failed attempts to model the XB frame, it became clear why Solidworks was not used. It was going to be a fun project, heck maybe someday I will make it a reality. I have a Rotax V990 sitting waiting to be put in something, and after some rough measurements it should fit in the XB frame... Although Buell did beat me by releasing the 1125R. |
