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Blake
| | Posted on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 06:43 pm: | 
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More on the cheating in AMAPR SS...
http://venus.13x.com/roadracingworld/scripts/NewsInsert.asp?insert=6289 |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 08:18 pm: |
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What's hysterical about this is that it is just the tip of the iceberg. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if this one was a give away so AMAPR could crow about how thorough their inspections are. "Stock" factory 600s were seconds faster and many mph faster at Daytona in AMA than was the factory backed Matt Wait modified 600 with 115RWHP in FUSA. Show me a stock 600 with anything like 115RWHP, then tell me about how much the rider affects top speed.
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Blake
| | Posted on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 12:56 am: |
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I've always wondered how much power could be freed up via a loose engine with decked heads, race chip, exhaust, and running lower viscosity oil. I don't see 30% worth coming out of that. Maybe 15%. |
Blake
| | Posted on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 08:27 pm: |
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And yet more cheating exposed...
http://venus.13x.com/roadracingworld/scripts/NewsInsert.asp?insert=6335 |
Blake
| | Posted on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 03:28 am: |
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Loyal followers of the IL4 repliracer gathered to pay hommage to Japanese technology and their icons of peak speed and HP/cc.
Later, the mere mention of the "mighty GSXR1000" instigated mass arrousal with the inevitable orgy following soon after. Many riders were heard to command their mounts to "scream like a GSXR."
edited by blake on June 09, 2003 |
Jim_m
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 12:54 pm: |
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From a press release issued by Bob Holcomb for LRRS, regarding the NHIS weekend coming up (http://venus.13x.com/roadracingworld/index.html):
Pro Honda Oils Sportbike Feature: The Buell Attack
The Buell American Motorcycle Company will be big at the Loudon Classic. No track on the National tour is better suited for the radical new Buell XB9. Buell will field Massachusetts ace, Eric Wood, and Florida's Mike Ciccotto, to bring it home first.
Wood will be a favorite. Not only does he own the fastest race lap ever turned on a Superstock machine at Loudon, but he won the 2002 Loudon Classic on a Buell XB9. Look for Eric Wood's #4 Buell to qualify on the front row and challenge for the win late. Wood will be on Dunlop tires.
Mike Ciccotto is a Buell test rider and their go-to guy on the race track. He is particularly adept at making the pushrod V-twin from the Motor Company run with the exotics. Look for the #13 Buell to make a start like a top fuel dragster and try to gap the field. Ciccotto will run Pirellis.
Pro Honda Oils Sportbike Feature: The Spoilers
Fast Loudon regulars looking to hijack the podium at this year's Classic:
Jim Lester; Cycles128/Pirelli Honda F4i.
John Sheeser; Boccarossa Insurance Racing Honda CBR600RR.
Brian Kent; Greater Boston Motorsports Kawasaki ZX636.
Steve Giaccomaro Suzuki GSXR600.
Carlo Gagliardo; Maximum Motorsports/Razor Unlimited Yamaha R6.
Chris McNeil; Argo Cycle/Dunlop GSXR600.
Gus Holcomb; Legg Mason/Best Cycle/Dunlop Honda CBR600RR.
Mike Martire; GMD New York Kawasaki ZX636.
Thunderbike Feature: Earplugs Required
No other Formula USA class has a more fascinating grid. The mix of machines and rider profiles will prove challenging for any fan to pick a winner. Most machines will be V-twins, but there will be other configurations. No fewer than ten roaring Buell's will take the grid with the intent of sweeping the podium. Once again, local track knowledge should be a major factor and prove challenging to the Buell riders. The Thunderbike favorites are:
Bryan Bemisderfer, PA - Harding H-D Buell 1200 (Bryan is the 2002 Buell Lightning National Champion).
Jerry Wood, ME - Penguin Road Racing School Ducati Desmodue (Jerry won it in 2002).
Richie Morris, WI - Hoban/Appleton H-D Buell 1200 (Morris may have the fastest bike and he is in top form).
David Estok, FL - KOSCO Buell 1200.
Dan Bilanski, WI - Hal's H-D Buell XB9.
Jeff Johnson, WI - Hoban/Appleton H-D Buell 1200 (Jeff is the defending Thunderbike National Champion).
Rick Doucette, NH - Plaistow Suzuki SV650.
Jason Smith, TN - Smith Brothers Buell 1200.
John Donald, Suzuki SV650.
Bart Chamberlain, Kawasaki EX Special
A lot of different classes of bikes all running at once (the Classic and Thunderbike).
I am so psyched  |
Blake
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 04:24 pm: |
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Now THAT is what I call RACING!!! All manner of brands and teams.
Direct link to complete press release...
http://venus.13x.com/roadracingworld/scripts/NewsInsert.asp?insert=6341
If anyone can get a tape of the race I'd be most grateful for a copy. Wish I could be there! GO FUSA!! Go Buell. Will there be a Tilley's Buell at Loudon? Whatever happened to the Latus XB9R? |
Crusty
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 07:12 pm: |
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Louden is 90 miles from my house. I can't make it(yawn)to those exciting club races. I have to mow the lawn on Sunday. Oh well... |
Sportsman
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 09:48 pm: |
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Crusty, have you ever been called an instigater |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 02:58 am: |
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Crusty,
Having priorities like that says a lot about a person. I'd let my lawn go hayfield for the chance to attend a motorcycle race, ANY motorcycle race.
Shunning that which they deem inferior, the snobs of the world will be forever deprived of many of life's most enriching experiences.
Have fun mowing your lawn though. |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 03:02 am: |
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Of course, I have a 6HP push mower whose governor has been made adjustable. It'll mulch a half acre hayfield including the odd fire ant mound in under an hour and a half.  |
Jim_m
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 07:10 am: |
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Blake, turn 4 (IIRC) at Loudon is awesome. I't a 180 turn with stands right there so you can hear the thunderbikes real good as they open up to go over the crest to turn 5. Unfortunately, it's the only part of the track you can see from those stands.
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Benm2
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 07:29 am: |
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Right on, Blake. ANY roadrace is a good one, and club races are BETTER than pro races, as the action goes on all day. Plus, walking the pits at a club race will give an interesting perspective on bike building. I've walked right up to the trailer & had a discussion with Brian Bemisderfer at a "club race" (great guy), then walked the entire infield from corner to corner to watch the action. Can you do that at AMAPR events? (Really, do they let you?) |
Jim_m
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 07:45 am: |
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Benm2,
My only race experience has been at Loudon, but when the AMA raced there, they pretty much let specators have the run of the infield, except for pit row, of course... |
Dynarider
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 08:04 am: |
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Ben, at Road america you are pretty much free to go anywhere except pit road. Even then you can stand right along the wall & see the action. |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 09:01 am: |
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At Daytona AMAPR races in '01 I paid an extra $10 or something like that and gained pit access. Got to say howdy to Pascal Picotte and see some of the top dogs after the race. Was pretty cool.
CMRA pits are more interesting though, all manner and makes of machines at all levels. I bet the FUSA national pits are even better. |
Crusty
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 06:02 pm: |
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Sportsman, I'm guilty as charged.
Blake, I posted that just to get a reaction.
However, I won't be attending the races at NHIS in Louden. The reason is that I refuse to give one cent to a lying scumbag (in my own personal opinion) of a promoter. When the Experts refused to race on an unsafe track in the rain he publicly threatened and berated the riders. He told the AMA that he had applied sealer to the entire track when he had , in fact, only applied it to the NASCAR oval. Thomas Wilson's career ended there in the rain, and Miguel DuHamel got to spend the better part of a year using crutches and canes to walk. I was a spectator at two club races there, and both times some poor bastard left in an ambulance. I have ridden on the track at Louden; both the old (pre-NASCAR) and the new. The old track was a delight for me to ride; the new was just O.K. I'm nowhere near expert level, but Louden used to be favored by the racers. Now, they pretty much universally dislike it. When the AMA dropped the facility(a smart move, in my opinion), I didn't hear of one front ranked rider bemoaning its loss. I hope NASCAR pulls the plug on the speedway, and the track gets sold. Then, maybe the new owners will correct some of the more blatant hazards, and we can have a track worthy of Louden's heritage. |
Sportsman
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 07:53 pm: |
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Well at least FUSA gave up on the death trap known as Pocono. To go fast there you had to ignore ugly possibilites. |
S320002
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 08:54 pm: |
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JQ says,
"Yes, but because of his comments at the AMA due to the Boxer Cup at Daytona, like I pointed out earlier. The AMA requested an apology for those comments.
I would not expect the AMA to do anything "for" air cooled bikes in terms of rules or where they race until that happens.
Yamaha is the only one not caught cheating yet. THey swept the top four spots in the Supersport race at Pikes peak, and Pascal Picotte finished 8th on a "privateer 107 hp" R6.
Jason Disalvo finished THIRD in the Superstock event or a real 600. BTW a 636 Kawasaki won, but this time it was Tony Meier at the controls.
Yamaha has sold 65,000 R6's to date, they'll sell a bunch more for sure based on their current racing results."
Now let me get this straight.
1. The AMAPR admittedly has a grudge against Erik Buell because of his comments about them.
2. Based on AMAPR tear downs cheating by the factory teams is the norm.
3. There are five factories with fully developed 4 cylinder, DOHC, liquid cooled 600cc clones.
THE Question.
You think Buell should spend several years and millions of dollars developing another 600cc clone because...???
Remember this. If you want a 600cc DOHC LC four cylinder you already have FIVE to chose from.
Please, I'd like to see some real logic here.
Greg
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Dynarider
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 09:02 pm: |
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Remember this. If you want a 600cc DOHC LC four cylinder you already have FIVE to chose from
Triumph obviously feels its an important market segment to go after & its already paying off with a 1st place win in its first race out at the Isle of Mann.
Why not go after as much of the market as you can? No sense in in being complacent. |
José_quiñones
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 10:59 pm: |
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quote:You think Buell should spend several years and millions of dollars developing another 600cc clone because...???
Ask Blake that question he's the one that wants them to race in Supersport. I do not.
Triumph deserves MAJOR credit for sticking with their 600 and updating it to the point that it is now a credible alternative to the other 600's available. Their recent TT win will do wonders for their "street credibility"
Buells belong in the new AMA Formula Extreme. They are not currently there for the reasons I believe and explained earlier.
I hope someone suggested it to the AMA during the comment period after the rules were proposed. If nobody did, I do not expect the AMA to do it on their own.
So if you want to race and go watch Buells race, FUSA is your only option.
However, if spectators do no go to the races, and FUSA does not get more media coverage, they will never be a true "national" series.
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José_quiñones
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 11:07 pm: |
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Meanwhile, Aprilia keeps winning in the Italian Naked Bike series....
 |
Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 01:14 am: |
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I'm actually tired of arguing. Same old arguments in perpetuity. |
Cjmblast
| | Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 07:56 am: |
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I'm actually tired of arguing.
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Jim_m
| | Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 01:48 pm: |
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interesting letter from Mike Ciccotto (http://venus.13x.com/roadracingworld/scripts/NewsInsert.asp?insert=6364)
Copyright 2003, Roadracing World Publishing, Inc.
Via e-mail:
To all race fans,
I am writing this letter in regards to the rule changes AMA Pro Racing has proposed for Formula Extreme. Being involved with professional road racing on a daily basis, I have spoken with a number of riders about the class. Many 250 riders and current Formula Extreme riders are not happy with the changes, but I think they are the nucleus of a good class.
We all have to adapt to changes, and the rule changes that have put 1000cc inline fours into superbike and now into Superstock reflect the fact that the four major Japanese manufacturers have changed their main focus from 750cc bikes to 1000cc.
The new Formula Extreme class combines modified 600 four-cylinder four strokes (the four Japanese manufactures) and 250 two strokes (add Aprilia), allowing these tuners and products to continue in a GP-like format. AMA Pro Racing has also included the Pro-Thunder spec 748 and 749 Ducatis, which gives these riders and teams a chance to come back to AMA events after a year of no longer having a class.
So, we now have a class for the four Japanese manufacturers, Aprilia, and Ducati. However, I would like to have the AMA make one further change. Please do not only allow the Pro-Thunder Ducatis, but also allow all Pro-Thunder spec bikes. This would permit Buell, BMW, and Moto Guzzi riders and teams to run in a multi-brand professional venue.
Historical data shows that these bikes can put on a reasonable showing against the Ducatis, but they would not dominate the class. It would give fans of these marquees (including Harley-Davidson fans, many which love Buell) a real motivation to attend AMA races and watch them on TV.
In short, there is nothing but a benefit to all to make this last step in creating an exciting multi-brand class. I would like to appeal to the AMA to make this rule change, and appeal to all riders who would like to see the ultimate formula class to also write to the AMA requesting this change.
Sincerely,
Mike Ciccotto
Sebastian, Florida |
Grndskpr
| | Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 02:00 pm: |
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I'm actually tired of arguing. Same old arguments in perpetuity
That only took 4 months and 20 archived pages, but i still think its a record
Now go plan the big Cecil/dave race, and get us a good track day to boot
Roger |
S320002
| | Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 02:01 pm: |
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Results to The Question so far.
Dyna's logic; Baaaah, lets follow the rest of the flock.
JQ, as usual, tries to dodge nimbly around the issue and falls flat on his face.
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Dynarider
| | Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 02:13 pm: |
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If following the rest of the flock leads to the pot at the end of the rainbow..aka..increased sales of a competitive bike, why not do it??
Dont be so short sighted that all you can envision is Buell building V-twins...forget the Blast for this topic. Other companies outside of Harley build a variety of motors, V-twins, V-fours, IL4's, etc. Even tiny Triumph has both triples & fours & a couple twins now.
Different strokes for different folks, what would be so wrong about Buell developing an IL4 for their bikes? Not as a replacement for the current V-twins but as an addition to the lineup.
Maybe everyone should bitch at Harley for "following the flock" & coming out with the V-rod motor? I say its about time, & now lets get Buell to come up to at least the last half of the 20th century as far as motor development goes & come out with a motor that is deserving of the chassis. What would be so wrong with a hi performance, reliable, race winning, american bike powered by a brand new american developed & manufactured IL4 motor? |
Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 10:20 pm: |
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Greg,
You go boy!
Roger,
I'm on it, really.
Dyna,
Because short stroke, water-cooled, DOHC, 16-valve, IL4 engines suck... in my opinion anyway. If you want one, there are five good ones already available, take your pick. America innovates. Japan optimizes. Expect more than just another IL4 clone from Buell if they ever decide to produce a competition racing engine. I still think an XB9R with a couple of small variable vane turbos would be sha-weet.
JQ,
I wonder if Mike got wind of your advice. We'll see. I'm composing a diplomatic open letter to AMAPR, but will hold off sending it to RRW, AMAPR, MO, and CW until I know what AMAPR's response to Mike's letter turns out to be. I'm hoping they'll allow Buell into FX. That'll pretty much shut me up about the whole deal, as long as the tech rules are equitable. |
Dynarider
| | Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 10:32 pm: |
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Because short stroke, water-cooled, DOHC, 16-valve, IL4 engines suck... in my opinion anyway.
And why do you feel they suck? Obviously there is a huge majority of folks out there who think differently & like them.
I asked this question before & you never answered, do you like Buells or is it the Harley V-twin you love? What would be so wrong & so horrible about Buell developing & installing a modern 4 cyl motor? Doesnt have to be an IL4, it could be a V-4 also.
Nobody bitches about the handling or the styling of Buells, its always motor related. Build a kickass & take names motor & throw it in another line of Buells or even a slightly longer version of the XB9S & what would be wrong with it? Do you think it would no longer be a Buell because it didnt have a 50yr old V-twin in it?
I dont understand your aversion to the idea of a modern powerplant that kicks ass & is reliable. |
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