| Author | Message | ||
     Snail |
Aaron, I'm not jealous of your bike as much as I'm jealous of your ability to make one go fast. If I had your talents I might be feeling a bit differently about the whole scene. My point is, the cheap Japanese motorcycles open up a world of performance for us common folk of limited means and abilities, bless them, Erik Buell sure the hell didn't do it for us. The reason why your bike is so fast is because YOU made it that way. Can you buy and tweak a Buell and make it capable of 200 mph for $9.5K? Please factor in your time at $40-50/ hr. And will it run nearly maint. free for 100K miles? I'm curious how much it cost to get a Buell to that level of performance? Blake, you haven't answered my question on the cost of your track bike either. (drumming fingers on desk) Come on Blake. Paul | ||
| Josh_ |
All I wanted was a bike that was simple to work on, could be used for commuting, drag racing, corner carving and 2-up touring, had a fairing / small 'shield but no body work and got 45-55MPG. (which kind of narrows it down to an S3 don't it?  ) The only other bike I was looking at was the ST2. Ducs are cool, but cost more, there was only 2 dealers with in a few hundred miles (compared to 4 or 5 Buell dealers and 10 harley dealers) and of course there's no test ride for a Duc (or pretty much any other brand for that matter). I test rode S1s and S3s (carbed and injected) before buying my first Buell. Now the question would be, why did I buy the others? I've always wanted the stats of a race repli, but since there's no such thing as a test ride I doubt I'll be on one anytime soon. I have been on a SV650 and Monster750 but prefer the S3 and S1 to either. I'd love a Mille or Duc9xx/748 but I doub't I'll be able to afford more than a gix750 or one of the repli 600s unless I sell a Buell (nope, not gonna do it). However, if something happens to the S3, the search will be on. A used ST4s would rock, as would a new FJR1300 (if I could find one). I'd go with the Futura if I could get over the styling. A Superhawk with hard bags, better 'shield and maybe higher bars would be great if they made such a beast. But at any rate, no purchase without a long test ride. Josh | ||
| Aaron |
I concede the value point. No question, it ain't even close. But that's not my number one criteria for a motorcycle. If I bought based on value, I'd end up with something very different from what I want. Unfortunately, what I want isn't made. I have to go make it. That makes it cost more. Plus, as luck would have it, the closest starting point on the market isn't particularly cheap either. Somehow you're just going to have to come to grips with the fact that different people want different things from their bikes than you do. People are different. Let'em be. It'd be a damn boring world if we weren't. <font size="-2"><i>edited by aaron on May 30, 2003)</i></font> | ||
| Snail |
Sorry Blake, I type pretty slowly and try to check my spelling when I'm writing on this board, the SACBORGS know I'm ignorant, but I'm still trying to fool you guys. Its actually a transverse four rather than an inline four. You probably don't like the sound of an Indy car or formula one either. I understand. I have an old Mac powersaw you'd probably love, it shakes and makes a lot of noise, the chain turns so slowly you can count the teeth at full thrott. Basically then, you have the same money invested in your Buell as I do in my Gix. Sure wish you lived closer so we could ride and trade and ride. Aaron, I still haven't seen a dollar figure... Paul | ||
| Dynarider |
Josh at the bigger rallys most of the manufacturers are there with demos of all their bikes. The Honda Hoot is more than just Hondas, Sturgis is more than just Harleys. In sturgis I rode Victorys, Yamahas, Hondas, & even an Excelsior. I realize its not as easz as going down to your local dealer & getting a ride, but there are ways to ride em. BTW my local Honda dealer allows test rides, every time I go in there they ask me if I want to ride a bike today. Sometimes I do. My local Kawasaki/Triumph dealer has test rides on saturdays. BMW also offers test rides. | ||
| Snail |
Aaron, I get it, really I do. I have a Buell and I enjoy riding it for the same reasons both you and Blake keep refering to. Its fun to ride, but it breaks a lot. I just finished re-gluing all the plastic back togeather, (front fender and tail section) and after one hour of riding it was broken again. I'm about to convert it to a rat bike. Josh, I bought a '99 s-3 for the exact same reasons you did. Mine was a huge disapointment, I had major breakdowns three times on out of town trips. That SUCKS (sorry Chad). I still have the S-3, but I never go very far from home on it. The next bike I bought was a '00 Busa, for $10K and went touring all over the west. No problems, plenty of power and loading capactiy. Its everything and more than I expected from the S-3 Totaled it in B.C. and bought a '02 Busa replacement. The Busa proved to be a bit porky for the track. So I bought a '03 Gix. Perhaps I just like bikes. Paul | ||
| Aaron |
Those are two fine motorcycles and outstanding values, measured in terms of performance and reliability for the dollar. Sounds like you bought exactly the right motorcycles for you. Sincerely, I'm happy for you. | ||
| Brianh |
Serious question, would the big Buell run that kind of speed at Maxton? You only get 1 mile, technically 1.2 miles to get her up to speed. Why not put that thing in a second record book? Fastest production 1650cc P/PP I see at Maxton was only 152mph. I also see that a modified pushrod Sporty went 172 and was the fastest "pushrod" in any class. They're running again in June and September. BTW, the Busas and 12's are running anywhere from the 190's stock to the 230's modified. | ||
| Brianh |
Oh, and just to put a fire under your ass, I don't think you could do it in 1 mile. | ||
| Aaron |
Well, you're the expert on horsepower and speed, after all you have a ZX12. Who am I to argue? Hey, as long as I've got your ear, I've heard that sea level on pavement is a very different thing from salt at 4200'. Is that true? | ||
| Bigj |
Snail: Once that plastic cracks there's no permanent solution. Trust me. I tried EVERYTHING! Buy new plastic. | ||
| Blake |
I personally witnessed a Harley go from zero to 174 mph in 1/8th of a mile. And that was like 7 years ago. | ||
| Snail |
BigJ, I priced the new plastic and about had a heart attack. I think I'll just try fabricating something out of old aluminuim road signs. Nother thing that annoys me is the fact that the race muff rubs on the shock canister. I have tweaked and flexed it as much as I can, it still rubs. Paul | ||
| Blake |
Paul (Snail), "Sure wish you lived closer so we could ride and trade and ride." Me friggin' too! Concerning your crooked muffler woes... I had to take a rubber mallet to the slotted flanges at the collector end of the muffler to get mine to align. Mine was the opposite of yours though; it was too far away from the shock and needed to have the tailpipe moved more inboard. I ground off the bottom edge of the tailpipe and part of the can dragging it around the left hand turns at the track. Probably made a nice sparky show for anyone behind me.  I still had to make room for the belly pan (required on race day), so I removed the race can and knocked the flanges to the right (looking down on it) so the rear of the muffler would want to go more inboard towards the shock when remated with the collector. Worked like a charm on about the third try. Just don't force the muffler too far onto the collector; tighten the rear hanger assembly first making sure the front is not in a bind, and be sure to use a liberal amount of the copper RTV to ensure a good seal at the collector. Since we're on an exhaust topic, you might, as precautionary maintenance, replace the front hanger T-Bolt clamp upstream of the collector with one more beefy, like this one...  Click pic for more info The destination of the link above will also show you my preferred solution to rear muffler hanger problems. Works like a charm, so far. That damn race header is like a demon possessed. It wants to destroy the entire bike and maim the rider; once it manages to compromise any of its mounts or hangers; it will take its revenge. How can you not love a bike comprised of racing parts like that? LOL! On the bodywork... try ebay... also maybe adjust the idle up/down to avoid the severe shakes as it is probably the high amplitudee low frequency vibes that are destroying the plastic parts. I remember how that thing would practically walk away from you while idling on the sidestand. Mine does the same thing but at about 1/4th the rate of escape. Blake PS: If you keep bragging on that GSXR you're gonna jinx it like Cecil did his S3. Either that or I'll be forced to sneak by when you aren't lookin' and loosen a few choice fasteners on it.  edited by blake on May 30, 2003 | ||
| S320002 |
OK Brian I'll bite, (an anachronism that has nothing to do with chomping on hairless genitalia) why does the HP/TRQ curve you show cross near 9500 RPM instead of the traditional 5252 RPM? Greg | ||
| Hans |
Blake, I saved your, so well formulated ideas, why we like the Buell tubers so much. To my surprise you got support from Brianh: Quote: "When they finally fall below $4000, maybe $3500, I may pick myself up a S1W. But this time around it will be with "eyes wide open." And really, with all the banter about racer reps vs Buells etc.... just have the discussion with your eyes wide open. The bike is what it is. Make it out to be something it's not at your own peril. Or should I say your wallet's peril? " He wants again a Buell tuber, accepting that the bike is, just what it is. S320002: Torques and HP`s are on different scales left and right. It is the maximum what 2 stroke V4 GP racers can pump out of their 500 cc`s. But they are riding on ultra smooth tarmac with ultra sticky slicks. Horryfying force but calmly coming in, right from the bottom. Unbelievable engine.  Hans | ||
| Arbalest |
Josh, if your local Ducati dealer does not allow test rides, it is the DEALER's decision. We have a small, dedicated dealer here that allows test rides on most Duc models. He is given an allowance by Ducati to provide test bikes. My local area is just crawling with Ducatis, due to the efforts of this dealer. | ||
| Blake |
Hans, Methinks S320002 was casting bait. You've tipped off the quarry! LOL. | ||
| Ara |
Rocket, You are dead center, sir, on yesterday's tragic death of David Jefferies. Last night I toasted his memory with a cold one and watched him race in the 2002 IoM TT on CD. That man could really go, he was exceptionally accessable to fans, and apparently had no trace of an ego. Remarkable and refreshing! There are so many racers who would benefit by emulating his mild manner. I wanted you to know that he was admired greatly on both sides of the Atlantic, Rocket. For anyone who is interested, you can post a message of condolence on DJ's web site www.davidjefferiesracing.com Russ | ||
| Brianh |
Aaron, ageed totally. As much as I love to twist your nuts, I would never attempt to downplay your achievments at Bonneville. But seriously, Maxton has developed quite the reputation. There are guys there going really really really fast. A Turbo Busa recently broke 235mph and did so within 1 mile. They have plenty of classes that the Buell would fit into and would clean up at. Again, the fastest 1650cc pushrod motor pulled 172mph. Every other class fell well short of that. You could put that bike in even more record books. On that note, that Buell being fast and all, would you not agree that with proper gearing, and some fueling adjustments, a stock 12 or Busa would be able to get beyond 200? Both bikes are pretty slippery and have plenty of HP to get there. So please define "faster" for me. Cause there ain't no way you were laying down 182 ponies on gas with that motor. | ||
| Aaron |
"would you not agree that with proper gearing, and some fueling adjustments, a stock 12 or Busa would be able to get beyond 200?" Not at Bonneville. You wouldn't believe how many 'busas there were at Bonneville, at the same event where I got that time slip, that couldn't even break 190. "Both bikes are pretty slippery and have plenty of HP to get there." Yes they are and no they don't. Look up the mathematical relationship between speed and horsepower required. I'd ride a Kawasaki but my Buell is faster. | ||
| Aaron |
Here's a data point for you ... John Noonan's turbocharged + nitrous Hayabusa was putting a little over 400hp to the rear wheel. He went 245, which is damn impressive. But it illustrates how it starts taking massive amounts more power to go not-that-much faster. How much more power do you think I had to dial into the bike to take it from 203 to 208? I'd ride a Kawasaki but my Buell is faster. | ||
| Josh_ |
>Josh, if your local Ducati dealer does not allow test rides, it is the DEALER's decision. No doubt. I know several people who own Ducs. I don't know any that bought at that dealer. We now have another Duc dealer in town plus the BMW place changed hands and picked up Aprilla. Perhaps the experience will be different the next time I go shopping. | ||
| Brianh |
"How much more power do you think I had to dial into the bike to take it from 203 to 208? " I don't know. How much did you start with? | ||
| Snail |
Aaron, thanks for posting Noonan's name, I been searching old email files trying to remember him, I bought some wheels from him. So, his Busa goes faster than your Buell? I wanted to post that, but couldn't remember his name, thanks. Did you meet him? I talked to him a couple of times on the phone, seemed like a real nice guy. As for bias, Blake owns a Buell related website, and Aaron probalby has $100K invested in his Buell colletcion, why would anyone think they WOULDN'T be biased? I'm just a po boy with cheap Japanese replica racer bikes. But I sure do have fun! Hans, hello old friend. I put some fishing pics on the SACBORG site. Want me to email you my favorites? Paul | ||
| Aaron |
"How much did you start with?" More than your Kawasaki. Man, if I were you, I'd lose that donkey bike and get something with some power, like a Buell. Paul: Sure, there are Suzuki's out there that are faster than my Buell. But not yours World's fastest motorcycle: Dave Campos, Harley-Davidson, 322mph. FWIW, a very fine Suzuki racer by the name of Rick Yacoucci has his sights set on that record. Ran in the 280's last year if memory serves. I personally would not bet against him. BTW, thanks for the compliments, but Cycle-Rama and Erik Buell are the ones who really provided the technology to go that speed. I just bolted it together. $100K tied up in Buells? I want some of what you're smoking! I'd ride a Kawasaki but my Buell is faster | ||
| Dustykat |
Worlds fastest motorcycle... Yes piloted by Dave Campos, but the dual SHOVELHEAD engines were built and tuned by one Keith Ruxton who I happen to work with here at Custom Chrome. Keith still owns the chevy van that pulled the monster down the salt to get it up to speed before letting it fly because the gearing was so tall it could not leave from a standing stop. The stories Keith has told me about HOW they got to 322 makes me think that it will be quite some time before someone breaks that record. Dustykat | ||
| Aaron |
Tell Keith I'm a fan, with a huge amount of respect for his accomplishment. | ||
| Bads1 |
Hey Aaron look at Mr. ZX-12's shirt in his profile and see what it say's down the sleeve.Make's ya kinda wonder don't it.  | ||
| Snail |
Aaron, I don't smoke. I was making a speculative assumption that your collection is probably around 10 bikes, and at a conservative est. of $10K per... Your Buell is faster than my Busa. I'm humbled and feeling impotent. But wait! I have a faster production machine than you do! So there. Now I really must go chop down some trees and pile up some logs. Paul |
