| Author | Message | ||
     Mr_gto |
does anybody know how well the xb transmission holds up to upshifting w/o using the clutch on the track? i know most sportbikes can be shifted this way, just wondering about the ole buell. taking her to barber for my first track day soon | ||
| Acejay |
cant tell you about well it will hold up, but i can say there is not much point to it. just a little bit of clutch makes the shifts alot smoother. its neither a quick shifting or particularly smooth gearbox, so there is not much to gain by forcing it. imo. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
I have found that it works at low RPM, but if you wind it up (like at the track) it is very rough. In short, it doesn't like it and I am sure it isn't the healthiest thing for the gearbox either. | ||
| Buelltroll |
Hmm I found just the opposite. At low rpm it clunks in like an old beatup ford and lunges HARD when you re throttle. At speed or above it clicks in nicley with no noticable clunk or lunge. (Message edited by buelltroll on August 01, 2007) | ||
| Rah7777777 |
for me, on my buell and my last bike (04 yamaha FZ6) low RPM's it will clunk, but wind her up to make a good run, and it will glide right into gear, no clutch! I personally don't think you will have any probs with clutch-less shifting, just as long as your not getting a clunk of any sort. thats what the internal synchro's are for :-) | ||
| Tripletrouble |
The Buell flywheel is waaay too heavy to be doing clutchless shifting, for me anyway. The sport bikes can do it all day becuase the flywheels/rotating mass is so damn light. Thats the clunk and lunge you feel is trying too slow down all that heavy rotating steel. Chris | ||
| Busterx |
I can tell you I rode Jap bikes and they shift easy without a clutch. My clutch cable broke on my Buell and I can tell you it doesn't like to shift w/o clutch and when it does it sounds BAD. Buell gearboxes have square cut harley gears and need a clutch, Howver I don't think you could break the gearbox. I have seen some mangled shift forks and gears out of a jap bike from jammin gears | ||
| Slaughter |
I have been able to shift "clutchless" but except when I'm racing, I always use the clutch since saving the transmission shifting pawls is more important to me than saving the time in shifting. I HAD to shift without the clutch the first month after hand surgery and I couldn't use the clutch except at the start and about twice a lap for downshifting. Tried clutchless downshifting in practice... fuggedaboudit! | ||
| Mr_gto |
Wow! thanks for all the input. i just want to save all the time i can at the track. i am trying to keep up with all my friend's jap racers. i know i can make up time in the corners with the buell advantage!  its the straights im worried about. i think ill try it up at the dragon to test it both ways before i go to the track! | ||
| M1combat |
I wouldn't do it first to second but above that I say go for it. I do it and I've got 50K miles on my '04 12R. The only trouble I ever caused by not using the clutch was putting it in first from neutral at a stop... Just a seal went bad though... didn't even need to drain the fluid. | ||
| Mr_gto |
thanks M1, i was kind of figuring that. after i got up to 2nd it might be easier. that 1st to 2nd is pretty jerky. | ||
| Disturbed |
thats what the internal synchro's are for :-) Come again? LOL Anywho, I can snick through the gears at high or low RPM with ease. Make sure your primary is not overfilled, I had problems when I changed the fluid, an 1/8 inch overfull made me loose all "snickability". I drained a bit off and it was back to being smooth as silk. I find if I am not smooth, the bike is not smooth. Practice it. It should be more like a thought of flicking the throttle than an actual motion, really, just a minor wrist twitch. Pressure on the shifter should also be VERY, VERY light (2-4 Lbs.). These transmissions are fine, people need to be less finicky and learn to shift the thing. Practice it, play with different actions. Remember the proper fluid level. | ||
| Mr_gto |
Thanks Disturbed, I am kind of anal about the way i maintain my bikes. i always keep my fluids in check. so that wouldnt be a problem. i think ill have to try this theory out on my way home. i get off work in 55 min. i work nighshift at the hospital so thats why i post so late. kind of sucks though, no one to talk to on the board.  | ||
| Xb12randy |
I will say the buell isn't going to clutchless shift as easily as any jap I've ever owned. I've done CCS races in years gone by on a multitude of different bike with both standard and GP shift patterns. If your going to clutchless shift you better have a GP shiftpattern. Why do you think they do it that way?? First and foremost it's safer when cornering to push down instead of up and secondly and more important to the heavy Buell gearbox pushing down you can get a good bit more solid pressure on the shifter. I can shift the buell damn near as fast using just a hair of clutch pressure and quick blip of the throttle as I could without ever using the clutch at all. About the same motion I make downshifting hard. I've tried a bunch of times to clutchless upshift and while it will do it sometimes it just won't go. A little clutch bump and it slips right in every time. My .02's | ||
| Jaimec |
You should split this discussion into pre-2006 bikes and post-2006 bikes. Prior to 2006 they had the square-cut Harley gears as mentioned by Busterx, but in 2006 and beyond all gears but 1st gear are now helical cut and actually do shift pretty easily without the clutch (not that Buell endorses that kind of treatment for a street bike). Racing techniques have little to do with riding on the street. I heard one fellow sum it up: "Whenever you see the word 'racing' substitute 'disposable' and you'll have it." In order to save a few fractions of a second per lap, a racer will shift without the clutch. But then his engine is torn down and rebuilt between each race. Is that something you REALLY want to do with your STREET BIKE? Not me. Clutches (and brake pads) were made to be replaced. Transmissions less so. | ||
| Ridrx |
Let's not forget the lack of a trap door for trans service, you gotta split the cases if you booger up the trans.(not fun or cheap). | ||
| Djkaplan |
I always make a point of using the clutch... but on a tight road when things start happening fast, I've resorted to clutchless shifts in the higher gears where the rpm drop isn't as significant as it is in 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Going from 4th to 5th clutchless isn't that clunky, but no way in the lower gears. If you try it, don't try and shift with the throttle wide open, back off a little and it'll go in pretty snicky. Be careful going down... it's possible to do it smoothly, but it's more difficult. Wait till your clutch cable breaks one day and you'll get pretty well versed on it. | ||
| New12r |
Clutchless shift at the rev limiter and she will drop in quick! I had 35k on the firebolt and I did not use the clutch much. | ||
| Xl1200r |
I would clutchess shift my '04 Sportster wich had the same square-cut geared trans as the Buells at the time. No problems. I do it here and there with the '07 XB. No real issues there either. | ||
| Surveyor |
I've done clutchless up-shifts on the track no problem, but i'm not comfortable doing it....anyway I'm so slow using the clutch doesn't make much difference. I know some guys claim to do clutchless down-shifts....hard to believe and even harder on the box I imagine. | ||
| Captain_nartman |
Me Ugly Power Shifts Very Smooth at 4-5K.. Though I Only Do it when I'm Fanging it n Feeling a Bit of a Hoon. N x | ||
| Throttle_jockey |
I always use the clutch on the road and at the track,I think the gearbox is not happy when you don't use the clutch....I also shift the other way around,1 up and 2,3,4,5 down  | ||
| M1combat |
Yeah it's not something I do ALL the time  ... When I'm having too much fun though I don't think twice about it. Never from first to second though... Just doesn't feel right. Also... I don't do it WOT. I back the throttle off maybe 1/8 of a turn just as SMOOTHLY and quickly as I can and then get right back in it. I run a GP shift as well but I never had troubles getting it to go into gear before that. I went to gp shift because every once in a while I would come out of a corner holding 6K RPM's for a few seconds because I couldn't get my toe under the shift lever. REALLY kills the drive onto the straight. | ||
| Dwunundabkr |
hey hey im with jamec use clutch especially pre 06 as i have had to rebuild trans not fun and bloody expensive just my 10 cents worth | ||
| Bombardier |
Clutchless is possible but you will wear out the baulk rings. | ||
| Dentfixer |
Maybe the question should be "How do you do clutchless shifting?" I don't know about you guys but I just preload the shifter and then I snap the throttle towards "close" (not fully closed) and in a couple 100ths of a second it is in the next gear smooth as silk. If you're getting a clunk, I think you may not be doing it right. My XB is an 06,maybe the earlier tranny's are not up to the job. Anyway, I was taught this at a track day class. Works for me. BTW, air and/or electric shifters on drag bikes work on the same principle, kill the power, ie ignition, for just a fraction of a sec and it's in the next gear before you even know it. | ||
| Slaughter |
What Dentfixer said is exactly right. If you don't unload the tranny, you can hit a false neutral or just end up mashing into next gear. Neither is good. Takes just a little practice but I think you might be much better spending the thought processes on your technique and finding/defining all your points on the track. If you divide your attention between riding technique and shifting technique, it'll slow you down. I'm betting that you can get better results by focusing on things other than shifting. Technique used to enter/exit turns might gain a few seconds a lap and shifting might make a tenth of a second a lap - IF done properly. All that being said, upshifting an unloaded tranny without a clutch isn't too hard on it. | ||
| Disturbed |
If you're getting a clunk, I think you may not be doing it right. Zactly! Mine is an 05 BTW Cord |
