| Author |
Message |
    
Sgthigg
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 10:28 am: | 
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anonymous.
Do you have the california missions regulation requirements that you could send me? I am trying to get my 2005 xb12 USA model Buell to OSAKA Japan to be emissions tested. I have theyre break down of emissions numbers numbers in a package they mailed me to be filled out before I go up there. I am really interested in seeing the diference between the 2 countries standards. Plus it might save me about 1500$
Thanks |
Spatten1
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 10:36 am: |
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Sgthigg:
Buell should have a Government Relations or some Customer Service department that will help you.
It used to be part of my job to help customers with emissions and safety certification info when they were importing/exporting motorcycles. I was working for a manufacturer at the time, and these requests were common. We had people in Japan at the plant that would compile lists of changes that needed to be made to make the bike compliant in a different country. You could get a shop to sign off that they did the work, or that it was performed by you properly. |
Court
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 10:45 am: |
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Actually, I just went through trying to help a Buell owner get his XB into Sweden and it's not all that easy.
In addition to trying to document "technical equivalency" you start to run into a host of other challenges, some as simple as the stickers and warnings that are on the bike.
One good source of CA emissions data is C.A.R.B. The mere reason they exist is to collect and disseminate this information in pursuit of their goal of cleaning up the crummy air.
I'd bet they have a website with all the information.
Generally, by the time you take shipping (both ways), all the paperwork and stuff into account your best bet is to sell your bike and pick one up when you arrive. |
Spatten1
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 10:46 am: |
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i do not understand how hot spots in the compustion chamber would cause bad emissions?
I think he is referring to NOx, which results from very hot temperatures. It can also go up from running too lean, but not lean enough for a misfire condition which would cool the combustion chamber.
All this stuff is from memory, 10 years back, but I think it is correct. |
Spatten1
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 10:49 am: |
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Court has good points. Some countries, or some particular people with power issues, can make the process more difficult than it should be. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 11:10 am: |
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Sgthigg,
I'll see what we can do regarding Japan, but honestly the governments are getting tougher and tougher to deal with, and Japan now has regulations that are from a different planet than anyone else. For example, the 1125R is not going to be available in Japan until 2009MY because of the weird Japan regs. So it is a lot harder than it used to be to move bikes from one country to another.
We just went through the list for a guy going to Europe and the cost was so much it was much cheaper for him to sell his bike and but another used one when he got to Europe.
There is work in progress to make the rules start heading back to being more uniform, but it's moving very slowly. Politicians always can rally support around differences... |
Sgthigg
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 11:16 am: |
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I will try to see what I can find from what court said. The bike was shipped for free. I am in the USMC and had it shipped. I couldnt part with her so I brought her and plan on getting it emisions tested and certified by Japan. I will probaly put another 15K on her and sell her before I go back to the states to a Japanese local . I just was wondering how Cali Emissions stacked against Japan Emissions. It would tell me alot if I knew.
Court is right they do have websights but its all in Japanese. They also only speak Japanese in Osaka where im trying to get it tested at. It is a pain...But will be worth every bit of it. |
Sgthigg
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 11:36 am: |
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Anonymous,
Thanks I appreciate all you can help out with. Luckily when I got here I have a buddy that has an 06 (japanese)xb12 with all the stock pipes,eck,lights etc(that pipe is redicouls looking). I can borrow this stuff temporarily for the tests.
I was at the Hiroshima HD/Buell dealership 2 days ago and they are selling 07 Buells there. From what I can see. There are no real major mechanical differences. If I had a Illustrated parts breakdown of each that would be awesome then I could compare and do 99% of the changes to make her "look"Japanese for about a week until all the testing is done.
I guess my big question is this.
Does the American 05xb12 model meet or exceed the Japanese emission requirements for a Japanese model Buell?
And if so Is there a document that would be sufficient for the testing center to accept? I got a statement already from HD/Buell but is says it meets or exceeds California/Canada emissions standards. Not Japans. I would love to have this document and see if it would be accepted. It could save me lots of Money.
Thanks |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 11:37 am: |
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OK, if the bike is already there for free that's one expense less. I know the tailpipe emissions numbers are lower for CA than for Japan, but there are some other issues that may add some complexity. If they want the bike moved to full Japanese compliance you will need to change the instrument pod, etc. |
Gregtonn
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 11:38 am: |
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Paintball,
Spatten1 is right about the hot spot thing. This can even occur in hydrogen fueled engines when high temperatures can combine of atmospheric nitrogen and oxygen.
have you ever seen a hopped up motor that idles all lumpy dumpy and sounds really cool
Yep, I was even part of the pit crew when we set a national record with a Top Fuel Nostalgia Blown Nitro Dragster. Now that was cool! Well... actually it didn't have any cooling system at all.
G. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 11:44 am: |
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Top Fuel Nitro? You could probably feed the energy needs of a small southern village for a week with the left-overs from that exhaust!!! |
Paintballtommy
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 12:09 pm: |
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thanks for the clarification guys i didnt even attribute it to nox emissions just never crossed my mind as a possibility. im wond Greg thats awesome i bet it was somethin to see. anyone ever measured cylinder and head temp around different parts of the chamber. it would be interesting to see how and where it varies.
(Message edited by paintballtommy on July 16, 2007) |
Spatten1
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 01:24 pm: |
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A couple of guys I worked with were running a GM small block on a dyno on Hydrogen in the mid-90's. It had a backfire so violently that it blew one of the heads off of the engine.
Ugly stuff. Last time hydrogen was ever tested at that facility. |
Paintballtommy
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 01:35 pm: |
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what kinda harware were they running fastner wise. iver never heard of a backfire blowing a head off. they musta been making some rediculous power with cheapo head bolts. BUT THAT IS INSANE LOL
(Message edited by paintballtommy on July 16, 2007) |
Aesquire
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 06:50 pm: |
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Hydrogen is deadly, weird stuff. Ok in Blimps, if you don't smoke on the top of one, but the dang atoms are so small it leaks through solid steel. When you get to storage.... evil & supernatural come to mind.
Liquid Hydrogen is a bomb in a bottle, it has two forms, ortho & para, depending on the spin orientation of the electron shells, & it spontaneously goes from one to the other, ( don't remember which off the top of my head ) releasing scads of heat, making keeping it liquid hard. Sometimes, it just blows up. Bubble chambers in physics dept.'s at college's are not in bunkers to make the coeds swoon, it's to catch the shattered armor plate. Explosive in a wide range of mixture with air, Hydrogen is fun at parties too. Best thing is, it leaks UP. No puddles. ( not for long anyhoo )
The "Big fins" comment was to point out the need for more cooling with more power.
I havn't heard a lot about improving the heat efficiency of internal combustion engines since Smokey Yunick's adiabatic engine, though I read a small blurb about ceramic engines in development from time to time. They never seem to get past the first announcement stage.
http://www.amazon.com/Smokey-Yunicks-Power-Secrets -Yunick/dp/0931472067
http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=78116 |
Jlnance
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 08:30 pm: |
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As long as we are talking about air cool engines, here is something thats been bugging me.
The fins between the cylinders, and on the back side of the rear cylinder are not getting any horizontal airflow from the movement of the bike through the air. If these surfaces had vertical fins, they would generate convection cooling, which would help the bike at idle. Has anyone every looked at this? |
Blake
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 03:38 pm: |
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"The fins between the cylinders, and on the back side of the rear cylinder are not getting any horizontal airflow from the movement of the bike through the air."
That's a HUGE assumption that is likely inaccurate. Study turbulent flow and the flow around a cylinder or cube for instance? "Diminished" might be a good description of the air flow in the regions you mention.
I've wondered if orienting the fins on the cylinders so that they were perfectly horizontal, at +/- 22.5o as applicable from cylinder axis itself, would provide any added benefit. It might well be that the slight angle allows the convection in low/no ambient flow conditions that you are talking about.
Also remember that the fins are to cool the inside surface of the cylinder. Heat can also flow circumferentially, not just radially outwards from the cylinder core.
Regardless, I think it is a much more complex issue than can be accurately imagined by the likes of me. |
Djkaplan
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 04:14 pm: |
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"DJ,
If the piston expands more than the cylinder, I can see the point. It seems like aluminum cylinders would also run hotter too though, so wouldn't they also expand more due to the air cooling scheme?"
Blake... please read my response to your queery.
Silence means agreement! |
Blake
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 07:06 pm: |
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DJ,
I'll posit this: The aluminum piston runs through a steel (or iron?) liner on a stock aluminum cylinder. Wouldn't it make sense that the aluminum piston would expand more than the steel (or whatever iron alloy) sleeve and need more clearance at ambient temperatures?
Sorry. I agree. No arguing against that, especially for an 883 cylinder.
I run the Revolution Performance all aluminum cylinders. I believe that they have somewhat closer installation tolerances, but still not as tight as what most liquid-cooled engines have. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 12:01 am: |
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Sgthigg
The US test and Japan tests are different, but a Japan bike will pass the EPA/CARB test and a US bike will pass the Japan test. You have a PM with more details. |
Djkaplan
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 09:37 am: |
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"Sorry. I agree."
Well... I find no joy in that, Blake. I like it better when I have to go scrambling to an old textbook (or reference) that I haven't opened in years so I can compose a response that at least shows an effort to be as insightful as the question.
What am I going to do now? All dressed up and no where to go... |
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