| Author | Message | ||
     Hergy916 |
I have already posted this question in the Knowledge Vault but I'm getting limited response. (1 to be exact, thank you icon) I apologize for posting it here too, but I would like to get as much input as possible. O.K. I've been reading over posts and have noticed that people are running the Drummer exhaust w/ the Buell race ecm. As far as I can tell, nobody is complaining about this combo, but is it the best or is there even a different option? I've only had my 07' XB12R for a couple weeks and it's clearly the most amazing machine I've ever owned, but I'm ready to start getting parts together to release it's true potential. Also, I'm loving how the exhaust sounds already and can only imagine how it could possibly sound with the right set up. It seems that this question has been asked here in some round about ways, but I'm looking for a real straight answer. I'm not against using the race ecm and am not trying to avoid spending the money on it, I just want to get the right parts and haven't heard of any other ecm options aside from custom mapping. I want to be able to do as much of my own work as possible so I'm trying to stay away from needing to have someone custom tune a map for me. | ||
| Terrible1one3 |
Race ECM, K&N filter, Drummer exhaust = perfect. Reset the tps, remove all servo crap and make sure the ecm learns the set up, running it at like 50 mph or 3k rpm for like 6 miles or something. | ||
| Fpresky |
I went with a special ops pipe (keeps butterfly) I have a brand new race ecm for my 07 12r. pm me maybe we can make a deal I also had my airbox cover opened up and made a great sound and performance difference, i'll take pics and post if interested | ||
| Terrible1one3 |
By butterfly do you mean servo? And if so, doesn't the Race ECM not use the Servo anyway? | ||
| Fpresky |
yes and no the race ecm does not control the servo | ||
| Terrible1one3 |
so why have the servo if it isn't being operated by the ecm? (I might be and probably am totally missing something, and I apologize ahead of time) | ||
| Fpresky |
a race ecm is not for use with stock pipe ,it works great with drummer and others that eliminate the butterfly valve in the can.this is why it's never been on my bike. I was planning on a drummer but came across a deal on the special ops that was too good to pass, and the special ops keeps the valve | ||
| Hergy916 |
"Please post technical and performance related questions/content to the appropriate subtopic in the Knowledge Vault! Please! We're on our knees begging here! Really!" I knew if I posted this question here I would get a better response. I tried to use the Knowledge Vault, but it doesn't seem that too may people are reading that part. So, everyone is happy with the Buell race ecm combined with the Drummer. Heck, sounds like most people just like the race ecm with about anything. Please keep posting opinions or experience as it will still be a couple weeks before I purchase anything. I've got to replace the roof on my house next week, so that will postpone any "fun" purchases for a while. (Damn wind storms!!) Thanks for the quick response everyone. Now I can go to bed and not lay there wondering what you all are thinking. | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
Race ECM + K+N air filter + Open air box + no snorkle + Drummer =  | ||
| Kdan |
Stock ECM + K+N air filter + Open air box + no snorkle + Drummer = too. I have been very happy with the bikes performance with the stock ECM and haven't seen the need to change it. | ||
| Spatten1 |
Kevin Drum designed his original muffler on the dyno with a race ECM. | ||
| Typeone |
Race ECM + TFi + K&N + 07 inner/outer airbox + 1/3 a snorkel + Orig. Drummer = hahaa! | ||
| Terrible1one3 |
Ok, I just misread ya earlier. Yeah the nice thing about the Buells is the closed loop system. Doesn't require complete remapping when exhaust and intake variables are changed. You gotta think of it as only a buffer though. The stock ECM works in (___I___) a type of setup where Ideal (=I) is from the factory in the middle of the range the ECM can work with using O2 sensor and others. The race ECM (______I______) opens the range available to work up to compensate for a higher flowing intake and exhaust system. But remember you can still go outside of the range of the ECM to monitor and adjust by opening up too much, such as straight pipes, and the D&D is pretty wild also. Slapping a race ECM and a drummer pipe on may prove a result where (__I__________) Ideal is within the threshold so the ECM can monitor and adjust but isn't in the middle. Changes in altitude and climate cause the ideal mapping to move, and can move out of the range. What remapping does is take that ideal mark and reset it to the optimum position, which optimizes performance of the ecm and all the sensors working with it to adjust the fuel map. All in all open airbox and ecm help the low engine speed sputters. Though not curing, the open exhaust is usually a bunch of help also as it fits the race ECM better. All in all it's hard to go wrong with the type of system on there. So enjoy. (Message edited by Terrible1One3 on May 12, 2007) | ||
| 07xb12scg |
Everytime the subject of running aftermarket exhaust with the stock ECM comes up I think back to what was written in the American Sport Bike exhaust shootout by Al Lighton: "Based on the fueling responses we saw during this testing, I would be very hesitant to run a stock ECM on ANY bike equipped with these exhaust systems." Wrong or not, a lot of people run their exhaust with stock ECMs and claim that the stock ECM can compensate for the additional flow. It's been said on this forum and others that Keven Drummer states that it's fine to run the Drummers with the stock ECM. Who's right? Who's wrong? And more importantly, what's the truth? | ||
| Terrible1one3 |
It is mostly situational. Every bike reacts to parts differently no matter how controlled the assembly was. When it came to harleys at the shop we could throw some slip fit pipes on with just a digital download on 50% of the bikes without a problem and the other 50% would run like such crap they would need a race tune. Another thing is how much will the owner put up with. The occasional intake sputter is extremely annoying to some people, and doesn't bother others. Decel pop pisses a lot of people off too but others don't mind it. So it may be 50% to 50% working fine but mostly dependent on the owner. If you want your bike to run perfect you can't slap a drummer on a stock ecm. If you don't mind if it isn't perfect but runs like a bike with a carburetor, you can run it (don't get me wrong you can get carburetors really damn close on the fuel curve but most don't tune that extensively.) | ||
| Xbullet |
Wrong or not, a lot of people run their exhaust with stock ECMs and claim that the stock ECM can compensate for the additional flow. they can say that all day long, but have they disassembled their top end lately? some of them probably have white valves... no matter what engine, be it xb, panhead, or chevy 350. efi or carb, you need to set up your fueling system for a set of variables. mostly air and fuel flow. air flow is affected by the above mentioned variables including, but not limited to, exhaust and air filter. when you increase outward air flow through exhaust, ya need more fuel. carbed bikes and cars, you rejet. efi cars and bikes, you remap. rejets/remaps are how you vary fuel flow. (AFV for efi and the A/F ratio screw on a carb also affect, but let's not get too deep, i'm gonna be longwinded as it is...) the consequences of improper fuel to air ratios are varied, but on our buells the situation most likely to occur is running lean. you can tell if you are running lean if (layman's terms) she pops and backfires. this can be VERY subtle, especially since you will still feel more power than before, since lean is mean.  without getting any more technical, the end result of this in any engine is grenading. doesn't matter if it's an xb or a knucklehead or an R6. eventually you will be left on the side of the road with something terribly wrong. this is just as true for any vehicle you own. our xb's are special, no doubt, but not so special that the S.O.P. of internal combustion engines do not apply. currently, our xb stock ecms are not properly equipped to handle MOST aftermarket exhausts, even after compensating through "learning the setup". the race ecm adds 6% fuel across the board, compensating for added air flow. it was made to work with the buell race muffler, but works well with some other pipes. some better than others, though, so be careful and take your top end apart after 1000 miles if you want to chance it. the tale will be told then. | ||
| Kds1 |
I've been running the race bike with Drummer SS stock ecm and ramair for a long while now with 103 and 98 octane fuel...I've had the topend off 4 times and this turd runs at 7500 all the time except when Marty grids to start and the top of the pistons are dark not light, the plugs are not white and the bike runs flawlessly all the time except when it gets its stupid electrical problems....you can use the Drummer with either ecm and you'll be fine....if you want the best airfuel ratio and you need to know without a doubt that its correct, buy a remapped ecm from Al by all means, if you want to have a more agressive timing curve and good fueling get the race ecm....if you just want to ride the bike and your wallet doesn't allow the latter, then use the stock ecm...with the 02 sensor working properly you'll get great service and have no problems.... Kevin www.kdfab.com (Message edited by kds1 on May 12, 2007) | ||
| Terrible1one3 |
He speaks da truf! | ||
| Hergy916 |
WOW!! Now that's some input. Thanks everyone. This makes me feel a lot better about choosing whether or not to use the race ecm. I'm definitely leaning on using it. Having an 07' I already have the more open airbox and should be able to just upgrade the filter and be happy. I'll let you know what I end up with, but it will probably be next month at the soonest. | ||
| Bigbuell |
Go for it! I love mine and I have a Race ECM, K&N and a open air kit and it runs like a mad man. |
