| Author | Message | ||
     Trojan |
We could argue for weeks about who could have done what with if's and but's. The facts are though that Stoner won the race, and ALL of the Michelin runners got shafted. Rossi was quicker than Stoner while the tyre lasted, and even after running wide and dropping to 5th place was lapping 2-3 thenths quicker than Stoner even in traffic to get back up to 2nd place. If it were just Rossi's tyre that went bad then you could put some blame on him or Yamaha, but it wasn't. It was every team running Michelin tyres. The fact that Rossi & Hayden were beaten by riders that are not normally in the same time zone, let alone the same lap, speaks volumes about the dire straits Michelin were in, and shows just how the new tyre rule makes a mockery of what is supposed to be the world's best racing series. Whether Rossi would have beaten Stoner or Elias to the win will always be a moot pint, but he should have had the chance to. | ||
| Rocketman |
Rocketman:you must be of ya face bro, if rossie had not had tyre problems he may have finished second or third. stoner was doing faster lap times at the back of the race.. The facts are though that Stoner won the race, and ALL of the Michelin runners got shafted. Rossi was quicker than Stoner while the tyre lasted, and even after running wide and dropping to 5th place was lapping 2-3 thenths quicker than Stoner even in traffic to get back up to 2nd place. Thank you Matt. That's the race I was watching. You know, just the other day I was accused of defending Toseland from some silly comments that claimed he was under performing last season in WSB, because he's a fellow countryman. This is racing, and whilst we all love to see our 'own' doing well, such should not cloud anyone's vision of what is really going on. If they stick a Brit in Moto GP one of two things will happen. He won't be on a top bike, or he'll be in the series as a token Brit entry (which usually blights their career afterwards). The day we get a fast Brit on a top bike I'll be just as patriotic as anyone, but I won't let their presence cloud my view of the racing. What would be the point? Let me just say, Toseland, as it happens, could be that Brit man. In which case one of three things might happen. The fact that Rossi & Hayden were beaten by riders that are not normally in the same time zone, let alone the same lap, speaks volumes about the dire straits Michelin were in, and shows just how the new tyre rule makes a mockery of what is supposed to be the world's best racing series. I couldn't agree more. If yesterdays race had not been made so great by the fighting amongst the Bridgestone runners, I'd imagine there'd be a lot of shit flying today about the tyre rule. That said, I bet there is anyway. Just not so vocally by us the spectator. Rocket | ||
| Heads |
lol.. | ||
| Jaimec |
That article link above was most interesting. The tire rule has DEFINITELY leveled the playing field, if not giving Bridgestone a slight edge over Michelin this season. How long is it going to take for Dunlop to catch up? They are exempt from the tire rule until they win two races. We KNOW the M1 is competitive (look at how well Colin and Vale are doing with them) so what's the deal? Dunlop practically OWNS AMA Superbike, so why are they so far behind the curve in MotoGP? | ||
| Vagelis46 |
Different fans, watch different races. Me for example, that I am a Ducati fan, watch a different race than a Rossi fan. I saw a Ducati absolutely flying at the top. Now I can't wait for China.......... That is a fact for motorcycle racing and all sport in general. Fans are not objective! Hayden said that his Michelin tires were OK. So? For me Rossi got carried away, pushed too hard and wasted his tires. He really wanted to win and not settle for 2nd and 3rd. He made a huge mistake in lap 1. Instead of taking it easy and move on slowly he was ridding like a 20 years old loon going for the win. He is too experienced, for these kind of mistakes. I think he is under pressure that he never had before and he is making bad judgment of the situations and mistakes. This year if he wants the championship, he should go for the best possible result in each race, that his package is capable of. I think that at some tracks the Ducati with Stoner will be unbeatable. So it is better for Rossi to just make a mature race and go for the maximum points. And it was 100% his choice to stay with Yamaha & Michelin. What would have happened if Pedrosa and Edwards did not crash?? Who knows? If Pedrosa managed 2nd? If, If, If...... Bridgestone, after years of hard work have created a tire that works well, and in some cases give an edge over Michelin in some tracks. So what ? In other tracks like Jerez, Michelin gives an advantage. Rossi fans must get used to the idea that sometimes podium finishes will not happen for Rossi. Also it is certain that in other tracks he is unbeatable. The fact is that other teams & riders are terrified of Ducati's speed at the moment. When they feel that the a Ducati is coming behind them, they are making mistakes, outbraking themselves and running wide. It is the same situation that was happening when a rider was facing pressure from Rossi. He was so terrified that Rossi will overtake him, that he was making a mistake. It was happening to Gibernau all the time. But, as always, time changes...... | ||
| Simond |
Ahem.... not much of a level playing field yesterday as far as I could see! The rule would seem to make each round either a Bridgestone or a Michelin race (maybe a Dunlop one before the end of the season). This, unfortunately does nothing but detract from the competition and the spectacle. | ||
| Heads |
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| Trojan |
Hayden said that his Michelin tires were OK. So? Hayden never rode fast enough to bother his tyres unfortunately. Of course Rossi rode at 100%, he was trying to win the race. If we are faced with riders having to race at less than 100% just to conserve tyres then MotoGP is on the slippery slope to boredom as far as I can see. This is the pinnacle of world motorcycle racing, and we should see the best riders on the best bikes and with the best tyres. Not some random tyre guesswork choice made 4 days before the race without any opportunity to even test them on the circuit first. This time it was Michelin that suffered, although had the temperature risen just 2 degrees the Bridgestones would have been in trouble too, that is how random and ridiculous this is. The tyre rules were brought in to help the smaller teams out, although these are the teams that wouldn't normally be good enough to win anyway. Why don't we just give the smaller teams better bikes (990's) or give them 5 laps head start? These would be just as ludicrous as the new tyre rules. We KNOW the M1 is competitive (look at how well Colin and Vale are doing with them) The M1 is only really competitive with Valentino on it unfortunately. Edwards pulls out the occasional good qualifying performance then storms to the middle of the field as soon as the race starts. The M1 is flattered by Rossi, and everyone else that has ridden it has said it is not as good as the Honda. The Dunlop Yamaha has 3 problems to get over: It does not get all the latest spec parts that the works M1 gets, it is saddled with terribly uncompetitive tyres and even more uncompetitive riders. What happens is that they develop a tyre based on rider feedback. If the rider is slow they develop a slow tyre, simple as that. They need a really top class rider on the bike to start making any ground at all. | ||
| Jaimec |
I already know your opinion of Carlos, but he is an experienced veteran who's had flashes of brilliance in the past. He has done much better with the Bridgestone shod Ducatis and Michelin shod Hondas than he managed last year with the Dunlop Yamahas. | ||
| Jaimec |
By the way... it was already documented that Michelin admitted there was a serious defect in Rossi's rear tire. Didn't matter how hard Rossi rode it, it was going to fail anyway. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
So I have to ask these questions : Why did Rossi blocked Stoner to join the Yamaha factory team? Why is he so keen to have Edwards as a teammate? I think that Rossi wants only himself performing well on the Yamaha, so that the motorcycle world say "Only Rossi can drive this useless Yamaha GP bike". He wants average riders as teammates. I think his strategy works. Everybody is convienced. Well NOT everybody..... | ||
| Jaimec |
That's a rather bizarre statement. Rossi and Edwards genuinely LIKE each other. There was talk last year that Edwards may not be back this year, but Yamaha was unable to lure Nicky Hayden away from Honda (which is who they were really after). Once they couldn't get Nicky, Rossi didn't want anyone else but Colin. Colin is a proven "Team Player" as he demonstrated at the latter half of last season, unlike Dani Pedrosa. As for being an "Average Rider" I'd point out that when both Edwards and Hayden rode for Honda, Edwards consistently finished the season higher than Nicky in the standings. | ||
| Trojan |
Why did Rossi blocked Stoner to join the Yamaha factory team? Rossi did not block Stoner joining Yamaha, he has said so publicly on a number of occasions, and also said that he doesn't mind who his team mate is. It was just press speculation and rumour that started that story. One of the reasons that Stoner didn't get the Yamaha gig was his quite unreasonable insistence on equal machinery and terms as Rossi. Remember at that time he had not won anything and was widely regarded as extremely talented but a bit of a hot head with a reputation for throwing it up the road in unforced errors. He had been given a similar brush off by Honda remember? Yamaha have always had a clear 'pecking order' with a number one rider getting the best parts first and the number two rider expected to ride shotgun. Colin Edwards knows this and is happy with it, whereas Stoner wasn't, simple. | ||
| Blake |
Any replays of the crash with alternate camera angles? It looked a bit like Pedrosa may have caused the crash by running into the back of the Kawasaki. | ||
| Jaimec |
I think Jacque has come out and stated it was all his fault. He took out Edwards which started the whole mess. Edwards thinks the problem started when everyone was watching Rossi running wide instead of paying attention to the race... | ||
| Heads |
What tyre brand do the suzuki run. vermulen put up a good performance to be involved in the accident on lap 1 then finish strong,fastest lap on his last lap of the race..i also think hopkins needs a better ride than the suzuki to much talent wasted there...  | ||
| Jaimec |
Suzuki runs Bridgestones as does Ducati, Kawasaki and the Gresini Honda Team. Everyone else runs Michelin except the Tech3 Yamaha team which is the only team to run Dunlop tires. Dunlop is currently exempt from the new tire regulations until the Tech3 team manages two wins in the series. | ||
| Rocketman |
Different fans, watch different races. Me for example, that I am a Ducati fan, watch a different race than a Rossi fan. I saw a Ducati absolutely flying at the top.  And as a little bit smitten 916 owner, how should I best apply your theory Vag? Tell you what though. I admire your Greek temperament. My friend Elias would dig himself in just as deep and convincingly. Love it  Anyway, I feel like being a brave man. I'll wager Rossi won't miss a podium for the entire season providing he doesn't DNF. Rocket | ||
| 12r |
A few pictures from soup. Rossi's chewed up tyre:  Hayden's new bike lol:  Vermin's crash protector:  | ||
| Jaimec |
I'd love to see the video footage of Elias passing Rossi. Rossi claims Elias passed him on the inside line (which is fine) but then altered his line to cut off his escape path forcing him off the track... | ||
| Jaimec |
Time to revive this thread ahead of the Shanghai round. Anyone care to guess why the Ducatis seem to have such a huge horsepower advantage over the Japanese factories? Could it be the Desmodromics? If so, then I would think Suzuki would be in the best position to counter that advantage with their pneumatic valves. Everyone else is using regular valve springs and maybe we're seeing the limit of that technology now? What do you all think? | ||
| 12r |
I think right now Ducati are in a good place. They have a small (but not too small) team and can react quickly to build on their advantages. They spend a lot of time in the wind tunnel and have learnt from their mistakes. Their gamble with Bridgestone is paying off and they have two good riders. But it's early days, and my money's still on Pedrosa  | ||
| 12r |
Hopper fastest in Shanghai free practice  | ||
| Trojan |
I wouldn't read too much into Free Practice times, as you just never know what setup the teams are using. Suzuki always seem to go very quick in first practice, whereas the Yamaha boys tend to try out race tyres/fuel loads etc on the first day rather than chase times. Even qualifying doesn't always show who is in the best shape for the race. The last round showed that very well. The best indication of race form is always in Sunday morning warm up, when the riders do a final check using the exact setup they will use in the race. What is exciting though is that the first 14 riders are separated by less than 1 second, so we can expect another close race I think  (Message edited by trojan on May 04, 2007) | ||
| Vagelis46 |
For me FP1 is a good indication of what is going to happen in the race, since most of the teams are using race tires. Also it shows the basic/starting set up of the bike and the shape of the rider. In FP2 and FP3 some riders put Q tires very early, so that they get some confidence from their times and to perform well in QP. But some do not use Q tires. So it is difficult to tell what is going to happen from FP2 and FP3. But I am not sure if the QP and the starting position on the grid is that important. As for the morning warm up, I think everybody takes it easy, not to risk a crash. Once again Stoner's Ducati was the fastest in FP1 and he was doing consecutive fast laps. So the basic set up of his Ducati and Bridgestones is good and he is confident. Also Hopkins was doing well in FP1. I think (and hope), for an interesting championship : 1. Hopkins 2. Stoner 3. Rossi 4. Pedrosa 5. Elias 6. Capirossi | ||
| 12r |
As much as I like Ducati, I hope the race isn't a procession. If Pedrosa is on form he should be able to match Stoner on the straights and hopefully Michelin will get their act together and we won't have another fiasco like Turkey. The tyre rule sucks, just like all the other premier class rulings that have tried to restrict technology. I think the championship will stabilize after this weekend. We have France, Italy, Spain, GB, Holland and Germany to follow  | ||
| Jaimec |
I'm hoping Hopper makes his first podium on Sunday! | ||
| Jaimec |
Rossi's on the pole, with Hopkins and Edwards in 2nd and 3rd positions. If only Michelin could get their race tires to work as well as their qualifiers! Should be an exciting race tomorrow. Hopkins first time on the podium?? | ||
| Heads |
Stoner did'nt do to badly in qualifying,in 4th thats where he started in turkey. Stoner had a problem with his no1 bike so he had to qualify on his no2 bike he said he was'nt as comfortable on it, so all looks like it will be a good race. MotoGP Top Speeds in Qual - km/h Barros 332.5 Stoner 329.3 Hofmann 329.1 Pedrosa 327.5 Capirossi 325.4 De Puniet 320.7 Melandri 319.4 Hopkins 319.1 Hayden 316.7 Rossi 316.3 Nakano 316.0 Guintoli 315.8 Vermeulen 315.8 Elias 315.5 Checa 315.4 Edwards 315.1 Tamada 315.0 Roberts 311.3 | ||
| Vagelis46 |
Excellent race. Well done Ducati&Stoner. I think from now on, Rossi will have a lot of consecutive wins in the GP in Europe. His performance today was great. |
