| Author |
Message |
    
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 10:16 am: | 
|
Under the circumstances where I spend 90%+ of my time on the road, I expect I would flip the bike forward before I exceeded front tire braking traction.
How does ABS deal with that? Do they have an "stoppie sensor" as well as the traction sensor? Or do they simply look for tire slip and let the rider handle the "anti loop" features? |
Roadrailer
| | Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 10:26 am: |
|
Wademan, thanks for posting that article. I had read it in the past, but had forgotten all about it. Good stuff.
Madduck, I believe you are confusing the servo-assist brakes on some BMWs with the ABS systems. They are two totally separate things. My understanding is that if ABS fails, the brakes continue to work normally, but without protection from wheel lock. FWIW, I wouldn't want servo assist brakes on my bike either. |
Madduck
| | Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 03:10 pm: |
|
I've owned and ridden every version of BMW's ABS available since 1998. The switchable on the 01 GS was the best but slow pulses limited its usefulness. The linked ABS of the twin sparks was a nightmare till you got used to it. Many people had low speed crashes as the front brake tipped them over. The unlinked non servo on the K-RS was pretty good in most respects except stoppping distance, it stopped better when disabled. The servo assisted system on the 1200 was incredible till it failed. When you ride a BMW with ABS you have to ask why they completely redesign the system every two to three years?? How well will all of those bikes be working by five years of age when they are on the 3rd of 4th owner and they are getting no regular maintenance?? I see a huge problem in the not too distant future which is likely to cripple BMW. Every system they have come out with prior to this year is critcally dependent on maintenance procedures. I was purchasing a "new" BMW every couple of years to get the improved ABS which would solve all of the previous systems failings.
The 1200 was BMW's last chance with me, never again. |
Rubberdown
| | Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 03:20 pm: |
|
I had a couple of ABS equipped bikes. My 05' R1200ST BMW would haul you down with astonishingly powerful deceleration when you needed it. Never had a problem with it. I am currently riding a bike without ABS. There have been some situations where I really would have like to have had it. If I could choose a system it would be a switchable (on/off) non-linked, non-power assisted ABS system. |
Bails
| | Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 09:30 am: |
|
They only have to work once to save your arse. I don't think there is any good reason not to have if there is an option.ABS would be used in cars on race tracks if allowed, bikes are a bit different as rear brake lock up is required by some.I'd have if available on the ride of my choice. |
Crusty
| | Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 11:11 am: |
|
They only have to work once to save your arse.
They only have to screw up once to put your arse in a sling.
If you like ABS, that's fine. However, I don't want it, and am happy without it. If Buell offers it, I'll buy the model without it. |
Gotj
| | Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 11:53 am: |
|
"They only have to screw up once to put your arse in a sling. "
You only have to screw up once to put your arse in a sling.
If you don't like ABS, that's fine. However, I want it, and am not happy without it. If Buell offers it, I'll buy the model with it.
So there, continued the thread hijack. |
Bails
| | Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 05:52 pm: |
|
"They only have to screw up once to put your arse in a sling. "
How do they screw up, if the ABS dosen't work you have normal brakes, this statement is like saying if your brakes don't work because the brake lines are broken you shouldn't have brake lines ???
The facts are ABS saves lives, if you don't like like don't buy, but the facts are the facts.
http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/problems/Equipment/absbr akes/index.html |
Madduck
| | Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 07:05 pm: |
|
When most BMW ABS systems fail they go to something called "residual braking", generally it means that it will not stop hard enough to cause a wheel lockup. This equate to the braking force of a 1940 Indian. The amount of residual braking available depends on sveral factors, Version of software, presence of servo etc.
There are a lot of people that don't mind devices making decisions for them, I am not one of them. My failures are apparent and I can deal with the consequences. Someone elses failure putting my life at risk and I get damn mad. Oddly enough ABS can really negatively affect the value of a used motorcycle. Most BMW riders want it on the new one, and most people buying used don't want the hassle. If retained value is important to you re-evalutate. |
Froggy
| | Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 07:34 pm: |
|
My guess is that it hurts the BMW resale values because of the issues on the older ones. I wouldn't want a bike with a problematic brake system, ABS or not, either. |
Bails
| | Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 03:29 am: |
|
When most BMW ABS systems fail they go to something called "residual braking", generally it means that it will not stop hard enough to cause a wheel lockup. This equate to the braking force of a 1940 Indian.
Having owned many BMW ABS models I can say this! Only a few BMW ABS models were servo assisted, The earlier ones and mow the newer ones don't have servo assist, so I would think this solves your problem and you are right to buy. |
Arcticktm
| | Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 12:25 pm: |
|
What Madduck is referring to is a SERVO ASSIST system failure. It is not actually an ABS failure. An ABS sensor failure simply means you no longer get the anti-lock feature, and are back to normal brakes.
If the SERVO ASSIST fails, you lose the power boost and that is what he is referring to. |
Madduck
| | Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 02:16 pm: |
|
A good test for ABS systems is to park on a hill facing either up or down. Start on a small hill. Turn off the motorcycle and wait a few minutes. Now try to restart the bike and ride away, try stopping. You are quite like to be amazed at the hoops to jump thru. None of my BMWs did well on this test, servo or non servo. |
Bails
| | Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 04:53 pm: |
|
A good test for ABS systems is to park on a hill facing either up or down. Start on a small hill. Turn off the motorcycle and wait a few minutes. Now try to restart the bike and ride away, try stopping. You are quite like to be amazed at the hoops to jump thru. None of my BMW s did well on this test, servo or non servo. Again this only applies to few Models of BMW, current models have non servo, and the above test would give the same result as a Buell, Go to any BMW dealer grab a floor demo R12000 s and try the brakes you'll discover that they are indistinguishable from non ABS . Servo assist came in about 2003 manufactured models and left with 2007 manufactured models, with a few exceptions such as the LT I believe. Perhaps this is because of negative sentiment, sales or whatever, however they still have ABS, and I would if available on a Buell.
|
Madduck
| | Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 05:58 pm: |
|
I've had non servo'd BMW that when parked on a hill have had fluid drain out of some critical circuit and required "pumping" to generate any braking effort at all. Many of the systems would not work reliably when started while the brake is engaged to hold the bike on a hill. I've always taken the ABS systems to small hills to work out quirks in the new system when I have the time to work thru any problems that occur. I really hope that you are right but I advise you to test and to have very little faith that the engineers finally got it right. The servo system needed to run thru its startup checks without either brake lever engaged, then you could apply the brake to shift to neutral and drive safely away. One of the advantages of the servo was that all of the lines were brought up to pressure solving an earlier "feature" hopefully the bleed down "feature" has not returned in the absence of the servo. Altho I have been told by several engineers that any ABS system can be problematic if left parked on a steep hill overnight. Test4ed my jeep once and the parking brake came in handy. Knowledge can avoid accidents and faith can create them, I believe but test also. |
Bails
| | Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 06:07 pm: |
|
On another issue this site is censoring . I am a member of the Aussie Buell forum which is getting pressure from Buell HD. I can't paste the link as it is changed. I don't like restrictions on freedom of speech, especially when Australians are also in Iraq . I post here off topic so perhaps some can read before I'm flamed. |
Captain_nartman
| | Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 07:36 pm: |
|
ABS can be a Bloody Hairy thing Ifya aint used to it.
Fangin along a Stretch towards a Sharp Bend Doin 180kph n Grab a Fistful as you gear down to set up the Entry, then have them Grab and 'LET GO' fer a second when they Kick in will Scare ya Panties Brown.
Not fer Me.
N x |
Captain_nartman
| | Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 07:46 pm: |
|
ABR site Owner is Lame...
Chill Bails Dude... There's History ya aint Aware of.
But give James my Love ok.
N x  |
|
