| Author | Message | ||
     Liquorwhere |
I believe you have a valid point Rocket, the Buell that you bought, you consider an exotic and for Buell to build the Blast is like Lamborghini building a Pinto...or something to that effect, using the name of a low volume relatively expensive exotic bike to sell a relatively cheap bike hopefully at high volume (as Court pointed out it was conceived to be built using purchasing as a major part of the engineering) and low pricing on material. So if you figure in low pricing, plus allocated bike shipment, meaning every bike that is built ships to the dealership and HD/BMC makes money from the invoice or the interest on the floor plan until it sells, but more importantly BMC could report those bikes as 100% sales because the dealerships must take them whether they want them or not..like the sportster.. then you must concede that this product is a staple cash flow product low manufacture costs, low retail price at a set hurdle rates of profit margin..not a loss leader by any means, and consistently purchased thanks to Riders Edge programs, it is by definition...a cash cow. So...Rocket would be right...also you cannot average completely those profit to sales because each bike has a different COGS and a different sales price...BMC may make 22% on some products and 5% on others and averaging them out will not satisfy the question at hand. It would for analyzing stock, but not for this. OK...Done. | ||
| Imonabuss |
What in the world would make people think that a bike that basically has 90% of an XB motor yet sells for half the price would be a "cash cow". That is really not rational. I'm betting that the Blast is at the absolute bottom of the profit pile for Buell, making it way below the minimum profit line for H-D. So if there is a 5% or less product, it's the Blast not an XB. Done. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I would love to see the breakdown by model. From under my rock, I have seen only one blast on a sales floor, ever. I have never seen one in the wild. I have seen a couple small herds grazing near Rider's Edge locations. Out of 12,000+ units sold. How many are Blasts? Half? 25%? 10%? 5%? Assume a number of units sold vs. the estimated profit per. If 10% are Blasts and Buell makes $1,000 per, that's about $1.2M or about 12%. Some of you Buell Sales guys, did you sell one blast for every 9 other Buell Models? | ||
| Cityxslicker |
ok, here are my stats, 2003 3 Blasts, 9 XBs, 2 used Tubers, 2004 3 blasts (2 new 1used) 6 XBs 4 used Tubers, 2005 -deployed- 2006 3 Blasts 12 Xbs 3 used Tubers, 2007 3 Blasts (yes they are moving early this year) 4 Xbs, 1 used Tuber {to date} two deposits waiting on bikes to arrive. Of the blasts that I have sold personally, none have come back in on trade-in (not the gateway bike like hoped). Seems to be the Tuber has been the gateway Buell, as most traded in for a newer XB. | ||
| Molly_hatchet |
i guess we should all remember that the good rocket is from the U.K. they were the front runners in the streetfighter jundra we americans have always had a way of taking something great ,making it ours then watering it down...but then again we did invent the muscle car....i do think the brits take their streetfighters more seriuosly than we do....thank god we got the crazy ass mick transplant sean lyons...stick to ur guns rocket it makes for a good bit of fun...maybe someone will start a soccer thread for ya  .hooligans originated in the U.K. from people that couldnt afford new bikes so they bought wrecks and made them not only street worthy but ready for a battle...but look out the yanks are in it to win it dogg... | ||
| Rocketman |
What in the world would make people think that a bike that basically has 90% of an XB motor yet sells for half the price would be a "cash cow". The fact that 9 of the rest of the Blast is a heap of inexpensive parts. Liquor, exactly my point. Rocket | ||
| Court |
Heck . . . I see BLAST®'s running all over New York City. Great commuter bike. . .  And they are quite popular with itsy-bitsy celebrities. . .   | ||
| Chainsaw |
YOUR MATH IS BASED ON DIVISION OF AVERAGES You mean my post stating the "Average profit per motorcycle" is just an average? Uhhh...thanks for pointing that out, Captain Obvious.  If you can find net per model and number of models sold, you can figure out profit per model. I have not been able to find that information publicly disclosed, hence the AVERAGE. Find the numbers for me and we'll do the math together, right here. In the meantime... Out of 12,000+ units sold. How many are Blasts? Last numbers I could find were from 2001. Said 34% of all Buells made were Blasts. I'm sure that has changed, but... let's play pretend for a moment. 34% of 12,000 is 4080 Blasts sold. Blasts cost $1500 to make and retail for $4695 4080 Blasts at a profit of $3195 each netted $13,035,600. Yet HD only reports a net from all Buells to be $10,222,700. Someone call the SEC quick!!!  | ||
| Chainsaw |
But get it through your thick skull please. Buells profit from Blast sales is not under scrutiny here Really Rocket? Does this post look familiar? $1500 build cost including the toilet roll in the factory toilet. Senior managements cups of coffee. The whole nine yards. $1500 is what it costs to build a Blast. | ||
| Liquorwhere |
Ummmm excuse me a moment, but Buell does not sell factory direct to the general public at very often...and so you cannot use retail numbers in your equation..you must use the dealer cost for BMC profit margins, the difference between dealer cost (all cost, commission, floorplan..etc) and retail sales price is the profit margin for the DEALERSHIP...not BMC. BMC would be cost to manufacture(all costs fixed, sunk or otherwise) to dealer purchase price. So this: 34% of 12,000 is 4080 Blasts sold. Blasts cost $1500 to make and retail for $4695 4080 Blasts at a profit of $3195 each netted $13,035,600. Yet HD only reports a net from all Buells to be $10,222,700. Someone call the SEC quick!!! Is not correct sir. Sorry. No need for the SEC yet.  | ||
| Jlnance |
Of the blasts that I have sold personally, none have come back in on trade-in. There is an active market for used Blasts. You can always find half a dozen on ebay. They fetch about $2000 there, regardless of year. Thats more than you will get on tradein. They are also cheap enough that lots of people don't have to get rid of one to get another bike. Probably why you're not seeing Blasts coming back. | ||
| Jlnance |
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| Ft_bstrd |
Let's assume a more reasonable build cost of $2,250 and a discounted retail price of $4,400. That give us an overall profit of $2,150. Let's say that half of that goes to the dealer and half to BMC. At 1500 units sold, that would give us $1.62M. As the bike model "ages", it becomes less popular and fewer units are sold and steeper discounts at the point of sale are required. It probably makes good money for Buell, but I can't imagine that it would be the primary driver of overall profitability. | ||
| Molly_hatchet |
i think if we were talking about a purely profit driven company ie buell....we would of seen something entirely different as far as product line.....they could of easily gone the way of making repliracers that every knuckleheaded kid would want cause it looks so cool and its stat sheets were better than the jap bikes....my opinion is this isnt a a purely lets go over that again not a purely profit driven company theres a little more to it i think... | ||
| Ducxl |
they could of easily gone the way of making repliracers that every knuckleheaded kid would want cause it looks so cool and its stat sheets were better than the jap bikes This is exhausting,what about the grown men/w over 20 years riding experience who want one.Oh yeah,we've got enough money to purchase a bike with "Soul" like a $20,000 1098s Ducati.I forgot,but it's still a missed opportunity for Buell.That's a $20,000 loss to Buell...So every knucklehead kid/w money in hand will not purchase Buell,but a repliracer,still a lost opportunity for Buell... | ||
| Ducxl |
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| Molly_hatchet |
ya this is gettin a little old...would be way more fun if we added beer....i bet someone would get knocked the f&@c out.....guess everybody has an opinion...and their all right...right. | ||
| Molly_hatchet |
oh i am a grown man..well kinda.. with well over 20 years of riding exp that has owned plenty of repliracers....that wasnt my point....but things get lost in translation up in here.... | ||
| Cityxslicker |
mmmm BEER, it does a body good. Pale Ale, its whats for dinner. And at just 90 calories watch the pounds melt away as a meal replacement. | ||
| Woody1911a1 |
pokes my head in ..... omg you guys haven't been drinking ? damn i thought beer was a prerequisite for joining in on this thread  that someone is so pissed off that the blast has ruined the street cred of his old tuber , geez !!! | ||
| Eboos |
Damn Duc, leave Barbero alone. | ||
| Xl1200r |
This is exhausting,what about the grown men/w over 20 years riding experience who want one.Oh yeah,we've got enough money to purchase a bike with "Soul" like a $20,000 1098s Ducati.I forgot,but it's still a missed opportunity for Buell.That's a $20,000 loss to Buell...So every knucklehead kid/w money in hand will not purchase Buell,but a repliracer,still a lost opportunity for Buell... You know, building 50cc scooters or 900 lbs touring bikes are missed opportunities too, but that doesn't mean they fit well into Buell's portfolio. A company needs to have focus to survive. | ||
| Molly_hatchet |
it takes way more creativity,drive,focus, and soul to carve out a place in a free market than to follow everybody else and always be second place...sure microsoft never misses an oportunity ....but at what price...windows sucks always has always will...ask a true computer freak what he uses u might get two maybe three different answers..ask a true motorcycle freak what he or she prefers....ur gonna get 50 different answers.....am i going anywhere with that...nooo not really but it cant hurt this thread. | ||
| Imonabuss |
$4000 Sportsters are cash cows? What do I mean? Don't think for a minute a Blast costs much less than a base Sportster to make, anyone who has been in manufacturing and looks at the volumes abnd the manufacturing would know that isn't true. Man these computer things must suck the IQ right out of people. Some of the statements you read on these chats are just insanely stupid. Although some are pretty smart, so maybe the IQ is just being sucked out of some and into others. And I must be on the receiving end, I guess! Cool! | ||
| Molly_hatchet |
correct me if im wrong but dont most of the big 4 manufacture a lot of other things besides motorcycles...hell yamaha makes friggin flutes but maybe they use the excess flute metal for the ehaust on the R-1's suzuki makes crappy cars...kawasaki makes all kinds of funky crap....i have a honda pressure washer it does look kinda like a CBR600 .....so i guess il never buy one of those seems how their all watered down (literly) hmmmm i wonder if buell would consider making a blender or maybe making the blast into a blender that would rock.... | ||
| Blake |
"Although some are pretty smart, so maybe the IQ is just being sucked out of some and into others. And I must be on the receiving end, I guess! Cool!" Thanks a lot! Mensa just called and revoked my membership, and now I feel a strange compulsion to rock back and forth and stick beans up my nose. In my best Carl/Billy-Bob of Sling Blade: "I reckon it needs gas, uh-huh." | ||
| Mortarmanmike120 |
$4000 Sportsters are cash cows? What do I mean? Don't think for a minute a Blast costs much less than a base Sportster to make, anyone who has been in manufacturing and looks at the volumes abnd the manufacturing would know that isn't true.  Bingo. | ||
| Xl1200r |
I would argue that a Blast DOES cost a bit less to produce than a base Sportster. A new XL883 is $6595 ($6855 if you don't want black). A Blast is $4695 - $1900 less. Granted, on the MSRP side, there isn't a HUGE difference, but noticeable. Now, I understand that MSRP does not reflect manufacturing costs, but let's think about this. A Sportster has a whole extra cylinder with all the things that need to make it work (connecting rod, head, valvetrain, exhaust, etc.). The Sportster has painted metal body parts which are no doubt more costly to produce than the molded plastic parts on the Blast (if from nothing else than a time standpoint). Then on top of it, the Sportster uses painted and chromed metal EVERYWHERE, where as the blast can get away with cheap plastic (i.e. belt guards, turn signals, no chrome exhaust, pretty much any kind of trim piece). So, while the price might not be THAT far off, I think it's different enough to notice. | ||
| Pinball |
I ride street bikes .If I had the ingenuity ,motivation, money,etc to start a company to build the bikes the way I wanted to ,I would! I ride dirt bikes. If I had the ingenuity ,motivation ,money ,etc to start a company to build the bikes the way I wanted to ,I would ! But I don`t .I live vicariously through people who have those qualities , so I can go on with my existence the way I want to. Eric is doing it his way ( with a little help),he even does guitars ! We can speculate all we want, but to me ,it`s like Christmas and I can`t wait till July for whatever they`re going to reveal,but I guess I`ll have to! | ||
| Rocketman |
Find the numbers for me and we'll do the math together, right here. In the meantime... Hey dude, why would you need to find them? Anonymous is bringing them from the office, right? Despite the wisdom of those sounding like they're in the know, if they really are, why not post the figure? No one here seems to object to Buell making a huge profit, so let's have it. Rocket |
