| Author | Message | ||
     Xl1200r |
Murphy's Law and BadWeb: The less something matters, the more it will be discussed, and the more polarized the positions will be. If you think Tide lacks innovation and investment, you are *sadly* mistaken. That is a seriously engineered product. The product is getting so good that they have engineering efforts around just the *containers* to help them survive against such an effective detergent. Whatever - then use baking soda, or incandescent light bulbs, or t-shirts - it doesn't really matter. The bottom line is a cash cow is a product that needs very little reinvestment aside from marketing or other non-technical areas. | ||
| Woody1911a1 |
I'd appreciate it if some could stay in focus before flaming me. perfect Rocket that made my day . i couldn't wait to get home from work to check on how this thread was going . god i love this place . found it by snagging a blast for cheap and after a lil tweaking that found that the blast was just that, a BLAST !!! and a keeper . my triumphs don't mind having a lil sister :-P | ||
| Rocketman |
There is much surrounding the BLAST to be revealed and I'd urge caution in taking the word of shade tree mechanics sitting in a pub. Not for the first time we've heard you boast on BMC's behalf, but just as always I'm still waiting for the revelation(s). Here's one I dare you to agree with. Dealer price Buell Blast, $2800. Am I to believe Buell doesn't make a frickin' red cent on the sale of a BLAST, yet the dealer makes at least $2200?. In the history of Harley Davidson that is indeed a remarkable achievement. Build a motorcycle. Sell at total build cost. Let dealer make all and any profit. And I'm the one making a very strong case to support I'm stupid? Sorry everyone. The Blast isn't a cash cow. Well at least not for Buell. Buell build 'em for nothing. Wow! I AM AN IDIOT. I AM AN IDIOT. I AM AN IDIOT. I AM AN IDIOT. Rocket | ||
| Rocketman |
ANONYMOUS, HAVE YOU GOT TO THE OFFICE YET, OR DID YOU FALL ASLEEP - OR JUST FORGET? Rocket | ||
| Anonymous |
I don't ever remember saying I'd post the actual production cost. Why would you honestly believe that I would? I already said I wasn't at liberty to. Oh wait, that was just a lame excuse, right? Pesky business practices... Just for fun though, have you ever considered that sometimes, the real gains of a product come from something other than the product itself? It's not always straight line thinking that gets you ahead in business. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Money for Nothing and Blasts for Free. Look at them yo-yo's that aint working... I want my , I want my, I want my Blast for Free... (If Sting and Dire Straits saw this thread) | ||
| Nutsnbolt |
I hope you are all sitting somewhere that can give you decent shelter and cover, cause Rocket's Head is about to get SO BIG about this. Quite Frankly, Anonymous, most of us here seem to remember you asking Rocket if he knew how much it cost. Then he said "Do You?" Then, you replied, not off hand, but you'd be at the office tomorrow. That implies that you were going to answer the question you proposed to Rocket in the first place. I hate when someone tries to call another out, ready to prove it to them, just to lay in wait and say "I never remember saying I'd post the actual production cost." Right, you are right. You didn't say that. Plus, I was a bit shocked to read by your implying that you might when you said that you would be at the office. Why anonymous if you aren't breaking any conflict agreements. Again, that seemed to be the implication that was stated by your comments. Look, I, just like most of us that are FREQUENTING this page on an hourly basis (seems that way) were all looking to see how this played out with what seemed to be your knowledge and to shut this whole conversation up. But, here we are, with just a lot of filler. No meat. Mark | ||
| Davegess |
Come n guys nobody who know the actual number is at liberty to say and they would have lots of good reasons to not say. Rocket certainly has no idea what he is talking about. I bought parts to manufactuer bikes for several years and from my experience I would say Buell is doing well to get all the parts for the Blast in house for $1500, I doubt that they are even close to that. Then you can't even turn the lights and heat on for less than $20,000 a month. Not too mention the pesky folks who actualy expect to get paid to put the things together. Court and anon are right on when they say there was more to it than just cost. I am pretty sure that profits, while certainly not losing money, were not the first thing on the list when the two folks who invisioned the Blast pushed it through Juneau Ave. | ||
| Xl1200r |
But, here we are, with just a lot of filler. No meat. Where's the beef? Like has already been stated, the cost of the BLAST! is not merely the total of the parts it's made of, but rather those parts plus labor costs, building costs, machinery costs, computer costs, depreciation costs, marketing costs, recovered development costs, and all of the assorted overhead that covers everything from Erik's paycheck to the web hosting for the company website. If you think the cost of a product is made up of merely bits of aluminum, steel and plastic, I invite you to sit in on a class in operations management, because there is much more to it. Even if Anon was willing (able?) to give the hard number, it would be anything but hard, as it is nearly impossible to track where all of this spending goes. | ||
| Rocketman |
My hands are tied, but I will say this. What harm could it possibly do to post the production cost of a Blast, when we all, including me, fully expect a profit to be made no matter how large that profit is? Yes anonymous, just for fun I have considered those things you suggest the Blast is about, other than profit, and I think it's pretty lame of you to not have the decency to admit the Blast is primarily above all else about profit. Just for fun remember......I've looked forward for many a day when Buell would build the worlds ultimate Streetfighter. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Steetfighter genre really Buells adopted niche market? So why if the Blast is such a success to Buell for reasons other than, as well as profit, is the success of the Blast not been put towards the building of a Streetfighter to rival Streetfighter style motorcycles from other manufacturers? The fact that it is not makes me see the Blast as having served Buell as only a cash cow, which is no bad thing in my book, and probably everyone else's book too, yet you seem quick to point out everything against the Blast being a for profit motorcycle whilst telling me it is everything but. If that's the case, why do you as is often the case, not just spell out the merits of the Blast (other than profit) rather than imply there are more important benefits without actually stating what they are? You know, rather than trade insults with me, perhaps you should think about that 'for fun' comment you mentioned more often. You'd be a lot nicer to have around if you actually made the BadWeB a place where you could at least share some of your know how rather than have people like me attempt to prise it out from under you in a manner that becomes inflammatory to all of us - whoever you are. Rocket | ||
| Mark_in_ireland |
Quote....Wow, look at the discussion I started. BTW, please refer to me as Sean and Rocket as Rocket from here on out, I don't want people to confuse us, no really, I don't.  No chance of that, the only person called Sean who posts here, had his rose coloured tinted glasses removed years ago, about the same time I took mine off and goes by the name of Rocketman, Rocket or Sean...no chance of confusing him with you...ever!! One day the blinkers will be removed and it'll all become clearer....until then we'll know you as thespive.  | ||
| Josh_cox |
That is completely wrong. You are off the mark on the dealer price by over $1000 (higher). We are then charged $215 for freight and have to pay people to perform the PDI. Do the math (cost, PDI, floorplan, advertising, commission, etc), you will see we make less than $500 per Blast. The Blast is NOT is big money maker. No Buell bike is. They do, however get customers in the door. If customers are here, they purchase other things later. A big money bike sale isn't what it's all about. Thank you, Buell, for making the Blast. That bike has brought many beginning riders into our store, and enabled us to teach hundreds of people to ride in the Rider's Edge program. I'd hate to recommend a new rider to try a Rebel or Ninja 250 instead (they share equally bad profit margins, but import dealers here mark them up over MSRP). | ||
| Xl1200r |
Josh, just for arguments sake - Most dealers will just pass the costs of freight and PDI to the customer (in fact, I have not found a dealer that doesn't). | ||
| Nutsnbolt |
You guys are missing out on the overall picture here. Even if its 3800 for Dealer cost. That's about 14 points you're making, right? Say 4 goes to the salesperson (guess) then, I see 800 going to the dealer. Nothing wrong with that. My numbers may be off, but my priciple is dead on. You have your mark up to recoup other costs incurred and the rest is profit. If in the end you only make 500 per blast, that's 10 points. If it were 10 points per bike, which im sure others are higher, just like commissions can be higher depending on the bike (point-wise) that's atleast 500-2500 per bike sold at HD. In PROFIT. What's wrong with that. That's just off 10 points. Using your scale. But, I'm sure the Blast is one of the lower point maker on the floor. Purposely, like you said, to get them in the door. SO, I don't see it as a Cash Cow. I see it as a loss-leader. But even the loss leaders make a profit. Again, I see nothing wrong with this. I've been in this type of business in my past life years ago. It's the way most ALL sales are done. Plus, with a name like HD, the advertising is minimalistic compared to other companies vs. the affect it has. HD could never advertise and only lose about 7 of it's business revenues overall. Not bad considering HD probably spends 15-20 or more percent on advertising alone per year. Probably more. Those fancy pens you steal every time you go into HD. That's fixed into the price of the bike, as well. But, PDI. Come on. You know that's passed on to the Purchaser, every time. Saying you eat the PDI is usually what you need to do to close. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Trust me, if that is the way commissions were structured, there would be only blasts on our floor and not an ultra in site... Why buy one ultra, when you can by four blasts and really line my pockets. funny how that is not the case | ||
| Liquorwhere |
Well....last year when I sold HD/Buells in Florida, the commissions were better on Buells at MY dealership than on most and I must stress most HD's. The first five motorcycles I sold were Blasts...in the ten months or so I was there, I sold about 170 motorcycles, around 20 of them were Buells, the real money was in the accessories but I know most of the sales people have Chrominators that get the spiffs on that, not where I was at. Big Bore kits paid for many a dinner out lemme tell ya. Ok my 2 pennies, and Josh, I can count on my hands the number of times I sold a bike without $495.00 Freight, $500.00 Set up (PDI) and $300.00 Documentation fees, the Buells had $300.00 Set up,same freight same doc, and at times the fees were reduced, but only by a few hundred, hardly EVER eliminated and NEVER the doc fees. | ||
| Chainsaw |
IF YOU REALLY WANT TO KNOW HOW MUCH BUELL MAKES ON A MOTORCYCLE SALE: HD/Buell is a publicly trade company boys and girls, which means they have to report all that silly earnings and profit crap to the SEC and the world. If you would rather argue endlessly about crap that can be otherwise be proven, please avert you eyes. Grab your calculators and let's do some math, courtesy of HD's public financials. For the 12 months ending in December 2006, HD netted $10,222,700 on Buell sales. 12,460 Buell units shipped in that 12 months. Assuming every bike sold, Buell made an average of $820.44 on every bike. Assuming an average retail price of $8895 per bike...that means Buell makes less than a 10% profit on every bike sold. Which, I'm guessing , is less than a British mechanics standard markup on Saab parts. Does that make him an Evil Greedy Corporate Bastard? HD linky *Having specific numbers of specific bike models would eliminate this assumption. Should be close enough for internet argument purposes. | ||
| Rocketman |
 Anyone care to take a stab at the RETAIL price of this fine 125cc brand new motorcycle? Care to guess the build cost? Rocket | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
C'mon Chainsaw, you know that ALL that profit was made on the shoulders of unsuspecting dupes that bought Blasts in 2006. The rest of the models were loss leaders.  | ||
| Rocketman |
No one said Buell were an Evil Greedy Corporate Bastard, except you. This days old discussion is about the Blast watering down the Buell brand, somehow equated to its profitability in the market place. That is to say, is the Blast purely a cash cow, no matter where its, if any, profits went within the company? Good or bad, is the Blast simply profit orientated and in my opinion if it is, at the expense of Buell exclusively building quirky somewhat exotic motorcycles? That is the discussion. Trying to work out the build cost, all things included, by averaging out Buells turnover is not going to establish anywhere near an accurate figure. Shouting about it won't make your math work any better either. Rocket | ||
| Rocketman |
It's come to my attention that Anonymous works long office hours. Maybe his\her hourly rate is costed in to the Blast retail. Thus my $1500 figure is way way way low. Rocket | ||
| Olinxb12r |
Where's the popcorn smiley?  Oh well, close enough. | ||
| Chainsaw |
No one said Buell were an Evil Greedy Corporate Bastard, except you. No, I asked if YOU were a Greedy Corporate Bastard for marking up Saab parts to make a living. Being a descendant of the guys that invented the English language, you don't understand it very well. You might want to brush up on your reading comprehension. Good or bad, is the Blast simply profit orientated All products are profit oriented. Even products sold at a loss are done so to sell other products that have a higher profit margin. Businesses that don't make a profit are doomed to go out of business. ...establish anywhere near an accurate figure. That average profit for bike IS an accurate figure. It's called M-A-T-H Rocket. Number of bikes sold divided by profit netted on said sales of bikes. This is 3rd grade math on this side of the pond. Grab your calculator and check the link. The numbers are right there in black and white. Don't get upset. It's just facts proving you wrong. You could cowboy-up and admit that or just continue being argumentative. Care to share your shop rate and parts markup so we can judge you and your business? .....didn't think so. Now is the point in the discussion you resort to cursing and name calling. Profanity is the crutch of the inarticulate. | ||
| Xl1200r |
This thread is like a drug - I know I shouldn't look, but I keep wanting REAL bad... puff puff pass... | ||
| Xl1200r |
And Rocket, I'll take a stab at the blue bike in question... It looks like a cheap Chinese model, so I'd say it retails for US$899 and costs about 13 cents to build. | ||
| Molly_hatchet |
saying the blast waters down the buell line is like saying the gs250/500 waters down suzukis lineup...those gixxer 1000's do seem pretty far off the customer base now that u mention it....sooo the rebel must be totaly taking down the cbr1000rr....god knows that little kawi ruined the zx10r's reputation and the new 14 and the busa u never see those cause all the people that wanted them thought kawi was losing their train of thought and went soft. | ||
| Molly_hatchet |
dont forget the katana...that ruined suzukis rep forever...ya know i bet cha if the blast looked like the firebolt they woulda sold a million of those things....everybody ive even went to a harley dealership with looks at the blast and goes ...wtf is that...mans it is uuuugly. would of made a great little cafe racer if it werent so dangd ugly....people used to laugh at my RD 250 til we rode.... | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Funny I was thinking that the Big Battle Boat wagon of the Ultra weighted down that brand of H-D. But again and again, those big touring bikes are our number one sellers. Just because I don't own one, nor would own one, doesn't mean that the bike doesn't have own its market share, following and a demand. There is a demand for the Ultra. There is a demand for the Blast. That bike sells. And if you ever had your @55 handed to you by a world cup rider (Jeff I) riding one on the track, you would know it moves out. That lil 500cc was putting XB9's and XB12s shame all day. | ||
| Crusty |
Don't confuse the argument with facts. | ||
| Rocketman |
Chainsaw, you don't write English very well. Assuming an average retail price of $8895 per bike...that means Buell makes less than a 10% profit on every bike sold. Which, I'm guessing , is less than a British mechanics standard markup on Saab parts. Does that make him an Evil Greedy Corporate Bastard? 'Him' as in 'Buell' is the way you wrote it. Care to share your shop rate and parts markup so we can judge you and your business? .....didn't think so. Well if I didn't share my shop rate my customers must love me they trust me so much. Labour = £32.50 p.h I sell Saab parts at Saab recommended retail, as most every Saab outlet does likewise. My discount depends on what part it is. Usually 20%, or less. Special order items offer no discount what so ever. But get it through your thick skull please. Buells profit from Blast sales is not under scrutiny here. For the seventeenth time, I believe the Blast is a cash cow for Buell, which is no bad thing, BUT, I believe the Blast is a cheap motorcycle very much hyped as one of Buells engineering marvels when it clearly is not. It is such a crap motorcycle the few that have made it to this side of the pond have been compared to much cheaper motorcycles which have better build quality and a hell of a lot more style. As such, nothing to do with cash cows, the motorcycle itself waters down other Buell products. From a manufacturer of low production volume of high end motorcycles the Blast does not fit in with such a profile. Got it? And your M A T H does not add up per INDIVIDUAL model. YOUR MATH IS BASED ON DIVISION OF AVERAGES, and as such will not show the build cost of each individual Blast manufactured. Rocket |
