| Author | Message | ||
     Rocketman |
At long last . . . a single fact. You're the expert. What do you base this on? What little it cost you to build it, and the astronomical retail price. Not even close. You're telling me Buell couldn't take an XBRR at $30.000 and race it for a full season in FX with $970.000? Maybe if Buell gets discount on the RR purchase they could just squeeze by on that small budget eh? That's an expensive piece of junk for the club racer to pick up the mantle on where Buell left off. I thought the whole purpose of the RR was to put it into the hands of those who would normally not be able to afford a 'real' race bike. It's a museum piece then? Rocket | ||
| Thespive |
No, Rocket, you are a museum piece. --Sean | ||
| Molly_hatchet |
just gimmie an XBRR and il show up at a few races...as long as were watercooling the buell why cant we just have an inline 4 motor too and smore plastic too please....and could u tone down that sound comming out of it too,,,,kind of annoys my neighbors,,,,oooh lower the bars and stretch it out a little too please and gimmie a seat that feels like a piece of plywood and some cool suzuki like colors as long as im gettin my squid on. | ||
| Anonymous |
I'm curious, how much does it cost to build it? | ||
| Molly_hatchet |
mmm if u look hard enough im sure u might find something similar around somewhere. | ||
| Anonymous |
Sorry, I was asking Rocket how much it costs to build a Blast. | ||
| Rocketman |
Do you know? Rocket | ||
| Anonymous |
Not off the top of my head, but it wouldn't take me long to find out (I'll be in the office tomorrow). I was just curious if you knew since you made the claim that it's a cash cow. I guess more than the actual cost, I was more curious to see if you had data to back up the claim or if you just speak in absolutes without actually knowing what you're talking about. | ||
| Ducxl |
it Can't cost very much. just order the parts and wait for the "COSCO" containers to arrive,then assemble the pieces. | ||
| Anonymous |
>>I too understand the Blast. It's a cash cow. Cheap to produce, expensive in comparison to purchase.<< Different anonymous here. ROTFLMAO, currently. I do know what it costs to produce the Blast, and Rocket knows not of what he says with such confidence -- but what's new. | ||
| Anonymous |
I thought it was confidence if you can back it up. Otherwise it's just arrogance. | ||
| Rocketman |
Obviously I don't know the cost of producing a Blast down to the last dollar, but I'm not stupid enough to see how smart Buell are at ripping off an unsuspecting public. We had a similar conversation about a year ago when I was laughed at by an anonymous poster for my claiming how much it cost to build an XB. I was told to quit the conversation, but the anonymous on that occasion didn't come back with the stats then to prove me wrong. If I'm so dumb and you're so proud of what seems to me by reading between your lines, the Blast is a reasonably priced motorcycle above its production cost, you shouldn't have any problems proving to me the Blast isn't a cash cow by showing me the stats of how much the production cost are. So go on, prove me wrong tomorrow when the office opens, seeing as you find my comments so laughable. Rocket | ||
| Reepicheep |
LOL! Clearly, if motorcycle elitism is your bag, the Buell is not your bike. Funny, the fact that others with less money and perhaps less skill can also ride and enjoy my brand is a plus in my mind, not a negative. Must be me.  | ||
| Anonymous |
That's a nice attempt to turn things around - make a claim and if no one can prove it wrong (due to not being at liberty to share internal accounting information) then it becomes fact. Man I love the internet. | ||
| Davegess |
Rocket, toss out a number. I pretty sure that the profit on a Blast is likely 1/4 of what it is on the XB line. The XB margin is pretty skinny in an effort to keep the price in line. Just an educated guess. Love to see your number. | ||
| Rocketman |
$1500 Anonymous, be honest enough to toss out your 'top of the head' number. That will get you past lame excu...... sorry, internal accounting. Rocket | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Does the manufacture price of a Blast make any difference? If the bike has a price that allows dealers to make money and the customer to feel like they have purchased at a price equal to or less than the value, what does it matter? That Gap sweatshirt costs about a dollar to manufacture, yet we buy it at $30. Do I feel cheated? Not really. I hope BMC makes a killing on every bike they sell as long as I get to buy a quality product with value equal to or greater than the purchase price. Profitable companies can spend more on R&D and process streamlining to manufacture bigger and better products in the future. Even if the cost savings are passed directly on to the consumer, companies with outrageously narrow or non-existant profit margins become stale and un-inventive. They eventually go out of business. Ask GM and Ford. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Have you priced what it would cost you to build one?!? pffcx :P I have, hell I cant even get a salvage block for 1500! Working on the build of a cafe Blast for the next bike. I know what it will cost me to do it, and it is not any cheaper than buying one off the floor. The benefit is that I will have it assembled for my height, weight, ergos and style exactly the way I want it. Honestly if Buell built the bike the way I wanted it exactly; they would probably only sell one of them, it would be to me. I hear this on the sales floor day in day out. "Oh I can build a softail for less than the 16k than you are selling it for." My recommendation, is go ahead and try. Bring me your build list when you are done, estimate your hourly rate at what you make for work, cuz it will cost you at least 70/hr to get a shop to do it. And I will see you in the year it takes you to build it in your spare time. (We all have so much of that) To date I have had ONE person take me up on the challenge, His softail cost him 22 K, and it is on consignment because of electrical issues and he cant get his "kit" bike serviced at a dealer. I have two builds under my belt, with factory direct parts, neither of them were "cheap" to complete. | ||
| Olinxb12r |
It really isn't a lame excuse, but since HD is a publicly traded company you can just look up their financials if you like Rocket. No company is going to tell someone exactly what the production costs of any of their products are. Personally I do agree with Rocket that Buell is making some decent money off the Blast, but isn't that the whole idea? If you look at how long the Blast has been in production in pretty much the same fashion it is pretty easy to assume that production costs are at the lowest possible level by now. I've never attempted to buy a Blast, so I don't know if I'm correct for sure, but I would guess that the cost of the Blast has not decreased as Buell has perfected the production process. The moral of the story is that Buell is out to make money just like every other company, and especially as a part of the HD umbrella. If you look at the lifecycles of the Buell designs you can see proof of this in the fact that Buell designs have a much longer shelf life than other bikes and cars. It is just basic economic theory to make your product for as long as possible while perfecting the production process until sales decline. We can not as consumers expect Buell to be any different than any other company. If Buell can not go in to a board room with HD execs and show them that a new project will make money within the first say 2 years with a total product lifecycle of at least say 4 years that product will not be produced. I would prefer to see Buell continue trying to make a profit just like every other company so I can continue enjoying the ride and availability of parts that we have now. | ||
| Nutsnbolt |
Yeah, my father in law works for ACE hardware. He gets his discount there. One day we went in to buy a hammer. Hammer was 13 dollars. After his discount, it cost him 3 dollars. There's a mark up everywhere you look. We aren't living with the Rajneesh, here. Do I think that Buell is putting a 75% profit on their bikes. Hell, no. You see those workers that work at that plant. They're Americans, making american wages. That's one contributing factor. Plus, some profits go into future design concepts that may be 10-15 years down the road. There's the concept building and re building that is the blood leach to engineering. The money that it takes to stay current is astounding. That's the part most people forget. Then, there's advertising, and your free Fuell Magazine that no one has got yet. I think that this is why the Apparel and Accessories are probably at a higher profit margain than the bikes are. Hey, 4995 is still pretty damn cheap for a bike. That's about 1/2 the price of the XB12, isn't it? Does about 1/2 that bike can do, right. I've never riden one. I'd love to, though. They look like a "blast!!" I couldn't resist. | ||
| Anonymous |
$1500 Is that your guess for: Component cost (remember - low volume = higher cost) Shipping of components Inventory cost Material handling Assembly labor Crating Non assembly labor Overhead (excluding profit - gots to pay the rent so to speak) Amortized tooling (worn out tools need to be replaced) Profit There's more but you get the point Anyway, that's the stuff that all gets figured into dealer cost. Add dealer markup and you get to the retail price. Trust me, that profit number is nothing like you think. | ||
| Rocketman |
Economics is economics. I couldn't care less how much profit Buell makes on any motorcycle. I'm just not dumb enough to believe that Buell build a Blast for any other reason than to make money. Thus it's a cash cow and only a cash cow. All else being equal, we often here Erik Buell telling us the XB's have certain attributes that NO other motorcycle has. Some claim other motorcycle manufacturers are in awe of how Buell does such magic with his XB's. Therefore the XB is viewed by Buell as more than a cash cow. Is that clear enough for you? Cash cow, or I'm an arrogant fool is the argument. How much profit Buell makes is not the issue. But the level of profit on a Blast will prove whether or not it's a cash cow. Simple. Rocket | ||
| Chainsaw |
A 'rip off' to one man is a livelyhood to another. I wonder what Rocket's shop rate is when working on Saab's. If it's more than 10 pounds an hour, is he 'ripping off' the public or making a living? That Ducati he has aint cheap, and the taxes over there...sheesh!  | ||
| Anonymous |
Cash cow, or I'm an arrogant fool is the argument. Must refrain... won't say it... oh God it hurts... ARGHHH!!!  | ||
| Eboos |
Of course the Blast was built to make money. If not, then Buell and HD really need to rethink what they are trying to accomplish. Pretty much straight from the horse's mouth: the blast came into being because of Harley Davidson's desire for a entry level bike, one that they could train riders on for the new Rider's Edge course that was being developed. This entry level bike didn't really have a place within the HD brand, so they developed a Buell branded bike. Left solely up to "the horse", the Blast would have been quite a bit different and much more exciting. | ||
| Davegess |
Let's see if Buel made 1500 on each one the year they sold 5000 they made $7.5 mil, if they did somebody at Juneau must be hiding it away some where. If Buell makes $500 I owuld be surprised. My guess is 300. On Uly 1500 might actaully be in the ball park. I bet the dealers make more in markup than Buell does. | ||
| Xl1200r |
Rocket, if you think for one second that ANY motorcyle Buell builds isn't built with profit in mind FIRST, then you are sadly mistaken. Believe it or not, even you S1 was built to make money. I promise that Erik's dream is not to just give motorcycles away - it's make money, and he's lucky enough to so that while doing something he loves. | ||
| Molly_hatchet |
wow this is retarded....what did that blast do to deserve this...personaly i think its uuugly...but if it gets someone to ride thats new hey more power to the blast...every other bike company has a blast...the honda rebel...the gs/250/500 ....isnt the ducati monster a entry level bike...ive seen a few girls and noobs ridin the little monster including someone that worked next the body shop i worked at...he loved my buell and i thought his duc was interesting...car manufacurers do the same thing too...nissan makes the sentra, toyota the corrola, these cars are made by the same people that make the skyline and gs400 respectivly....is there a profit margin for them...duur....i wouldnt ride a blast if u gave it to me i would love to have a rz 400...my choice...in certain parts of europe dont they have to start on small bikes and work their way up....im sure honda makes a bit on the nsr 250 as does aprilla on there small bikes in europe...would i like a duc..sure i would ...id like a lot of new things....i have a bike im happy with and i cant wait to see whats next from buell...never before has an american motorcycle company done so much in so little time or stirred up so much controversy ...even bad press is ok....do i think i was shortchanged cause i dont have a bike that puts 160 horses to the rear wheel..not really ive never seen anyone who could use that outside of a race track....i like my bikes like i like my friends...interesting ,different,unusual, mean when u need em to be, a little loud and ready for a party at a moments notice. ur duc inst as elite as u think i see em all the time on the freeway and just like most of the new school chopper guys their usualy dicks. | ||
| Jlnance |
Personally I do agree with Rocket that Buell is making some decent money off the Blast I hope you're right. But Buell doesn't really seem very interested in selling the Blast, and I think they would be if the money was good. | ||
| Thespive |
I beg to differ that the Blast is around because it is a cash cow, but then again you and I have been disagreeing a lot lately Rocket. Blast isn't there JUST to make money it has a mission of being the most affordable product in the H-D pipeline to bring in new riders and customers, a gateway product if you will. It has also been used extensively as a training aid. There is more that the Blast provides to the brand than just the bottom line. Even if it didn't make money, would it exist? Possibly, there is such a thing as a loss leader in this world of commerce. --Sean |
