| Author | Message | ||
     Tleighbell |
Want to start taking my aggression out on the track rather than the street. Have done 5-6 track days on 600RR's. I run about the middle of the middle group. Have done a racing school, want to do California Superbike School this year and get some more track time in. Was thinking of getting a vintage racer for track days and get into racing once I can post a lap time fast enough that I won't get rear ended off the track. I was planning to take my XB12S onto the track but I'm a little concerned about trashing it. A few racers available locally, race prepped from a '72 CB 350 to an SR500 to an FZR 400. Cost about $2,000 to $3,000. I have about $9,000 into the XB including taxes. Don't have a lot of time on my hands. Any advice or strategies for getting into this cost effectively appreciated. | ||
| Slaughter |
Depends on which race organization you get into. All of them have good bulletin boards. FZR400's have a big following and you can get tons of advice. CB350 is big in AHRMA. 500 singles are cool because you can run them in 500 singles class AND vintage lightweights in almost every race club known to man. Honda's Ascot is also really popular. Check the rules, some orgs allow changing to 17 inch wheels, some do not. 17 inch means you can get the full choice of rubber AND cheaper than funny 18 or 16 inch wheel sizes. | ||
| Slaughter |
Check the discussion boards classifieds also. Your pricing info seems pretty accurate. Often you can get a bike and a ton of spares for less than $3K. I sure understand your reluctance to race your streetbike. I did and after falling down at well over 100 MPH, it became a race-only bike! | ||
| Tleighbell |
Slaughter, thanks. I figure the slower the bike, the better to learn how to race on, but it could be a problem at track days where it is almost totally modern bikes with 3-5 times more power. Handling is a priority for me (that's why I own a Buell)as I doubt it would be much fun to race a bike which doesn't give confidence. Also would like to get ideas on the best strategy for getting myself up to speed. Training courses obviously, but does it make sense to just go out and race or get up to speed doing track days first? I don't want to embarrass myself more than necessary or create a danger. | ||
| Slaughter |
Track days first - but not to get "up to speed" but to get consistent. Don't teach yourself. Find an operator who provides instruction. The main thing on the track is being predictable - NOT fast! You don't want to surprise the guy who might be passing you (remember, no mirrors are allowed, the guy behind you is trusting you not to take an unpredictable line if he's going to set up a pass) Also, every race club that I know of will let you practice without entering a race. Often their practice days are way cheaper than ANY track day. Again - if you can find which organization runs races in your area, post on their BBS. Unlike sportbike boards, legitimate racing discussion boards are VERY helpful for the newbie. At least that was the case when I got started. (I see in your profile, you're up in Canada... not sure which groups race up in your neck of the woods) - at least now you do have time to do some shopping and preparation. The FZR ("Fizzer") is a great bike to learn racing on. Also the EX500 twin or GS500. Most organizations have lightweight twins classes. If you are good at wrenching, you CAN get an XB for about $3000 (US) - but it's going to need at least a complete tear-down inspection and likely some parts. roadracingworld.com has a good classified section. CCS, WERA, AFM have BBS's - and classifieds... but don't know if that would help you much where you live. | ||
| Slaughter |
On further reading, if you have done a half dozen track days, and if you are comfortable, you might want to consider going forward with your racing license. Again, as far as I know, you can get some guidance from most - but you really do get MONSTER benefits from talking to the guys you are going to be racing with and against. Club racing is an amazing positive experience. Much more helpful folks than "street racers" | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
Slaughter, Wondering why you didn't mention the ubiquitous SV650? I thought everyone started on one of those:-) Plenty of race prepped ones on the BBS. I think the Ducati singles are a pants full of fun too, not only because I used to race them back in the day, but I saw a guy giving everyone fits on one at Loudon, a real technical track to be sure. | ||
| Tunes |
Here at the Loudon track, small Ducati 250, 350, & 450 singles and Honda CB350 twins are the most popular. The Honda is the most popular to start your vintage racing career. Performance, cost, & availability of parts are the primary reasons for this choice. You can get into racing with a Honda CB350, including safety equipment and schooling, for about $2K-3K. | ||
| Tleighbell |
Thanks guys. Up here we have the Vintage Road Racing Association (vrra.ca) with a good board. There is another bike show in january and the guys from the club will be there so I'll get a chance to talk their ears off. | ||
| Jjk |
I am selling my 1988 FZR400 w/less than 10k miles (still with stock bodywork!) if you are in the market for it. I am in San Antonio, Texas. | ||
| Surveyor |
Tim, One piece of advice...DO IT BEFORE IT's TOO LATE....you won't regret it. I raced in the Kennings Classic Series and BMCRC series many moons ago and while this was not genuine vintage racing there were still significant differences between the bikes we raced and the state of the art racers. If you are talking about racing vintage bikes you will need to get familiar with the bike and understand that performance is rarely matched by handling braking etc. You will be faced with limited tyre choice, brake fade (ie no brakes after lap five!) interesting handling (particularly on the old Jap bikes). I know a few guys who 'finished off' their racing careers by having big incidents during 'fun' races on classic bikes. Remember a Vincent Black Shadow (c.1950) was good for over a 120mph....you just couldn't stop it or get it to go round corners!! The paddock atmosphere and people involved in this class of racing are the best as egos and ambition tend to be absent....above all enjoy yourself safely. | ||
| Hurricaneleah |
Tleighbell, I'm heavily involved with racing in AHRMA and have had a great time with it. Race a CB350 and a CR450 (1967 cb450 based replica of Honda's 500cc Daytona race bike). The really cool thing about AHRMA is they absorbed what was essentially the old AMA pro twins class, and run modern twins, singles, and two strokes at the same event. I race my XB in Formula 2 twins class at AHRMA events as well. The vintage stuff is awesome, but i noticed ou said you didn't have a lot of time to wrench. This could be a bit of a problem, as it has been my experience vintage bikes tend to be pretty maintenance intensive. Typically the bike purchase will be the smallest part of your racing investment. Currently, the newest vintage class AHRMA runs is Vintage superbike with a 1982 cut off date. I've had a lot of fun racing WERA as well, they have V5,6,7 classes which encompass FZR400, old oil cooled GSXR's, FZR's, CBR 600F2, etc. those bike could possibly be less maintenance than then the older stuff run in AHRMA. WERA is a pretty good group as well and run a good show. Check out AHRMA.org for more info and information on the Battle of the Twins classes. You could run your Buell on Friday practices then race vintage the rest of the weekend... | ||
| Slaughter |
Well - I was thinking for a budget less than $3K you'd find bikes other than the SV - if you have more like $5-6K - the SV is almost a perfect first race bike. Can't recommend carb over injected. I raced an 01 (carbs). You MUST put $1 to $2K into the suspension to get the bike working. | ||
| Nsbuell |
Tleighbell: I was in your exact position recently and just bought an 88' FZR 400 to race vintage next spring. I wanted to race my XB but the cost of race prepping it and the thought of wadding it up kept me from doing it. It's funny you posted this and you happen to be in T.O. because I almost bought a different FZR 400 from a guy in Ontario but didn't want to deal with the shipping to Nova Scotia, it's race prepped and has some sweet parts and lots of spares. He's even throwing in track stands and tire warmers, it's a racing starter package! If you're already familiar with the VRRA website he's one of the site administrators, his name is Ralph Scholtes and his number is 905 655 8244. I'm not sure exactly where he is but I think it's southern Ontario so he can't be more than a few hours from Toronto. Definitely worth checking out. | ||
| Slaughter |
Also I don't know any SV that is yet elegible for vintage racing in any organization - yet - most elegible bikes are at least 20 years old. Don't know about how old some of the others are. We have a VF500 Interceptor that I was going to race in Vintage but I'm spreading myself too thin. Sunny uses it as her track bike... we'll probably be selling it this year. | ||
| Tleighbell |
Thanks again for all the great input. Ryan, I did see that bike on the VRRA website and I might just call. Someone else is interested but there is another one too. Not sure if I want to go that fast to start, but I also don't think it would be enjoyable to ride something that doesn't handle. Then again, going slow on something that reaches its limits early might be a better way to learn. CB 350's are supposed to be pretty good, but compared to what? VRRA period 4 goes up to 1988 0r 1989. Seems a lot of racers come up from the US for the VRRA events. | ||
| Hurricaneleah |
Tleighbell, Yea, the 350 Hondas are great vintage racing bikes, as they are cheap, bulletproof, big aftermarket for them, relatively fast and the class, at least in the states, is super competitive. On the negative side, the stock CB/CL/SL frame really lets them down, and they tend to chatter no matter what you do (we went to a benelli frame). The fizzer sounds like a good deal, especially if you have a class to race them in up there. I would venture to say that bike would take a lot less development... | ||
| Nsbuell |
Tleighbell, I was just on the VRRA site and Ralph has sold that FZR. It's too bad, it sounded like a great bike with lots of extras. I'm glad he sold it quick though, he was kinda sour at me when I decided to buy a local bike after I had already told him I'd buy his. I felt kinda bad but the opportunity came up suddenly for the same bike and slightly cheaper...only it was 3 streets over instead of 18 hrs away. It was the smarter thing for me to do anyway. I feel better spending my money on a bike I have actually seen and heard than one I haven't. | ||
| Pmpski_1 |
What Hurricaneleah said. If you don't have a lot of time, up your budget and race a newer bike. It's hard enough keeping my Honda 4 to run on the street with limited time. I can't imagine race prepping one and keeping it competitive on race day. | ||
| Tleighbell |
Who said anything about being competetive? I'd be happy to not come in last and be able to go to work on Monday! | ||
| Chasespeed |
I would go with CB350.... I am a CBR guy all the way.. the 600rr is my favorite track bike... and the 350 is way fun.... in fact, I can get you a 750 here locally. daily rider for about...1200, maybe even less now... but..anyway... the CB350 sounds like the winner to ME Chase | ||
| Pmpski_1 |
I changed it from "running" to "competitive" right before I posted  Sounded nicer. Anyway, same idea. If you spend the time with it, you can get it running great. If not, pray for good luck. There's a pretty big following for the CB160 here in the PNW. There's a whole crew of CB160's in Portland. That may be another bike to consider. http://www.soundrider.com/archive/organizations/ho nda_160_racing.htm http://www.groupwracing.com/ | ||
| Tleighbell |
Anyone have any input regarding a 1981 TZ 250 as a track/vintage race bike? Mechanical power valve. It qualifies for period 3 which goes up to 1982. Local guy has one for sale. | ||
| Surveyor |
Anyone have any input regarding a 1981 TZ 250 as a track/vintage race bike? I'm not sure how practical it is to race the old two strokes as they are very hard on parts which may be hard to get. Assuming it doesn't seize you will still need a lot of rings and pistons to "keep it fresh" and stay competative and you will face the cost of a new or reconditioned crank every season and perhaps one mid season too. I know a guy who races an immaculate TZ250 but we only see him twice or three times a season. We use a GP RS125 and the cost is horrific, but they are easy to work on. |
