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Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 09:27 am: | 
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Ok, I took the time to read all those articles you linked to.
1) Motorcycles will NEVER be banned. They are one of the most energy efficient means of transportation
2) To say motorcycling is a privilege is misleading. Operating ANY motor vehicle is a privilege, not a right, under the laws of all 50 states of this country. Farm equipment is pretty much the only exception. So, to say that the privilege to operate a motorcycle could be revoked is just unrealistic.
3) The only major metropolitan area mentioned in any of the articles with regard to sound enforcement was New York, and in the same sentence it is made clear that Bloomberg just isn't having it.
4) Like I said, bedroom communities may succeed in some level of enforcement with regard to noise, but to say that it's "coming to a head" is alarmist propaganda at best, and just downright inaccurate at worst.
5) I agree that Harleys with straight pipes are obnoxious, not to mention how much power they lose by running that kind of exhaust, but if they want to be stupid, go slow, and get tickets for their efforts, then let them. I ride safely, my pipe makes plenty of noise, and I have yet to be stopped or hassled. Again, like I said, it boils down to personal conduct.
So if by "get out of your neighborhood" you mean I should go to some small town in Arizona or New Hampshire then I guess I'll watch myself when I get there.... LOL
Laws can be passed to prohibit anything.
Ask the folks in certain metropolitan areas who like to smoke. It's a legal activity, but in many places you can't do it.
Hell, I can't even have a cheeseburger and french fries in NY any more. Last I checked, Crisco wasn't crack! |
Pwnzor
| | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 10:44 am: |
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I don't think I ever said that motorcycles are going to be banned.
And while you may never leave your metropolitan area
1) Apparently you didn't even read the articles you linked, because banning of motorcycles altogether was one of the topics.
2) Who said I never leave my metropolitan area? My XB has been ALL OVER California, parts of Oregon, Washington, Arizona, Nevada and Utah. Next year I'm planning a long trip to cover the western 11 states.
I'm not worried in the least about noise regulations, because:
A) My factory race can, while louder than a stock pipe, is really not all that loud.
B) I don't ride like a pr1ck. As I have said multiple times, PERSONAL CONDUCT is the key. 17 years with no tickets or accidents.
C) I drive a Peterbilt 378 with a Caterpillar 14C engine. I have dual 8-inch stacks and an engine brake. You wanna talk about noise, and illegal exhaust, there it is. But SOMEHOW I manage to pass my biennial BIT inspection with the CHP EACH and EVERY year.
Don't tell me about noise and regulations dude. Bikes ain't going anywhere, and as long as they keep writing laws, people will keep finding ways around them. Chief among which, is the fact that the cops ain't gonna enforce them unless they are having a bad day or have been specifically mandated to do so, and even then it will be short-lived. Cops, like all other humans these days, are lazy and WILL get away with doing as little as possible.
"wahhhh wahhh wahhh they're going to outlaw illegal exhausts"
Let's pick that apart for a second... HOW can you OUTLAW something that is ALREADY ILLEGAL?
Duuuuhhhhhhh.....
Like the little helmet sticker says; "Loud Pipes Compensate For Small Penises".
Give me a f***ing break. I suppose you ride with a stock pipe, then? Nothing wrong with that by the way, but I personally like the sound of my bike with the race can. As I mentioned it's not too loud, it offers a big gain in performance, and I've been "getting away" with it for 3 years now. I'm no John Holmes, but my penis is just fine, thanks very much. I'm glad you're so concerned about it. |
Pwnzor
| | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 10:51 am: |
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Laws can be passed to prohibit anything.
Ask the folks in certain metropolitan areas who like to smoke. It's a legal activity, but in many places you can't do it.
Hell, I can't even have a cheeseburger and french fries in NY any more. Last I checked, Crisco wasn't crack!
I'd have answered this in the same post, but I didn't want you to confuse my attitude toward "them" with my attitude toward you. You kept it free of vitriol and as such deserve a distinctly separate response.
You are correct, laws can be passed to prohibit anything, and they have been.
Smoking here in California is illegal at any indoor location other than a residence. In fact at Maggie's hospital where she works, it is a "Smoke Free Campus" with no smoking all the way out to the curb on all sides.
That being said, you can walk into any bar in just about any city around here and as long as it's not a restaurant too, there are ashtrays on the tables, off duty cops, in uniform, smoking indoors. I accept the fact that if I go into a watering hole, there will be smokers. It's part of the deal. In fact, I sort of feel weird if I go into one, and there's no smoke.
I bet you that "no trans-fat" law in New York goes away soon. That just sounds crazy to me, seems like just another way for the health department to shake down small business owners for "fines" (bribes).
Think about it, to go around and make sure that NOBODY is using a particular kind of oil, how are they going to do it? It's a logistical nightmare.
Thanks for keeping your end of this conversation civil and factual.
edited because I misspelled a word
(Message edited by pwnzor on December 18, 2006) |
Freezerburn
| | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 11:10 am: |
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I knew this would get exciting as soon as Pwnzor started posting. This is great tea time fun. LOL |
Lost_in_ohio
| | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 12:07 pm: |
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Ya know she was nice with a note once.....she could call security and have it towed. Especially if it is any where near a fire exit. |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 01:01 pm: |
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Pwnzor,
The problem is two fold.
There are always individuals who do stupid things usually in direct view and against the direct requests of those who protest.
The second issue is that there are always proponents of "nanny state" legislation. These folks desire to remove ALL hazardous activities and substances from the environment usually in direct view and against the direct requests of those who protest.
To date, the "nanny state" folks are winning.
We will either police ourselves or we will lose our right to police ourselves. |
Brineusaf
| | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 01:33 pm: |
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Blah Blah Blah
Loud bikes are to blame for everything - small penises, police, laws, ect ect |
Spiderman
| | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 01:53 pm: |
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>>
Like the little helmet sticker says; "Loud Pipes Compensate For Small Penises".
Man, mine must be concave  |
Rubberdown
| | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 01:55 pm: |
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Team Mangina  |
Djkaplan
| | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 02:11 pm: |
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I have a very loud bike and a 3" penis.
We're talking diameter, right? |
Perry
| | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 02:54 pm: |
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This thread has evolved into the most insightful, profound, and thought provoking discussion ever on Badweb. And, it is being conducted in the most mature, well-reasoned, professional, and respectful way.
Here's to another great exchange on Badweb!
Sorry for the interruption... now everyone can get back to their tape measure. |
Slaughter
| | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 03:16 pm: |
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We will either police ourselves or we will lose our right to police ourselves.
'Zactly! |
Roadrailer
| | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 05:31 pm: |
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Man was I waiting for that.
You are a complete moron if you think we are really going to be concerned about our machines following guidelines.
I've gone through a few countries, and have yet to be even questioned.
If this was a serious issue as you make it out do be, then pipes would be limited to those who possess race licenses and race bikes (not that this would help).
I've ridden in my country without a problem, I've ridden in other countries without a problem... actions speak louder than words.
So just because it doesn't happen to you means it doesn't happen? Do some research on the bans, increased enforcement, and even street closures that are being proposed or even enacted in other countries. Look at the examples of increased enforcement in this country, and the concern that HD and the AMA seem to have about it. Still a non-issue? My concern is as FB said, we will either police ourselves or we will lose our right to police ourselves. We don't conduct our lives in a vacuum, and if we continue to act like we do, the other people our loud pipes affect will start speaking up in increasing numbers. Watch it happen.
1) Apparently you didn't even read the articles you linked, because banning of motorcycles altogether was one of the topics.
2) Who said I never leave my metropolitan area? My XB has been ALL OVER California, parts of Oregon, Washington, Arizona, Nevada and Utah. Next year I'm planning a long trip to cover the western 11 states.
I'm not worried in the least about noise regulations, because:
A) My factory race can, while louder than a stock pipe, is really not all that loud.
B) I don't ride like a pr1ck. As I have said multiple times, PERSONAL CONDUCT is the key. 17 years with no tickets or accidents.
C) I drive a Peterbilt 378 with a Caterpillar 14C engine. I have dual 8-inch stacks and an engine brake. You wanna talk about noise, and illegal exhaust, there it is. But SOMEHOW I manage to pass my biennial BIT inspection with the CHP EACH and EVERY year.
Don't tell me about noise and regulations dude. Bikes ain't going anywhere, and as long as they keep writing laws, people will keep finding ways around them. Chief among which, is the fact that the cops ain't gonna enforce them unless they are having a bad day or have been specifically mandated to do so, and even then it will be short-lived. Cops, like all other humans these days, are lazy and WILL get away with doing as little as possible.
"wahhhh wahhh wahhh they're going to outlaw illegal exhausts"
Let's pick that apart for a second... HOW can you OUTLAW something that is ALREADY ILLEGAL?
Duuuuhhhhhhh.....
They enforce the laws already on the books. No new laws need to be written. That's how. All it takes is for the public to get fed up, and the police will be pushed to enforce the laws.
I've read the articles, and I understand banning bikes is mentioned. But that is not my point. My point in posting those links was to demonstrate the increasing public frustration with loud pipes, the efforts of some communities to deal with the problem, and two major organizations' obvious concern.
You may not ride like a prick, but what you fail to realize with this logic is that the actions of others participating in the same activity do have an effect on how you are perceived by others. If, during your tour next summer, you pass though a town that has been plagued with noise problems and has decided to do something about the problem, you may be subject to further scrutiny simply because you're riding a bike. They discover your illegal equipment, you get a nice juicy ticket.
Lots of motorcyclists need to wake up and look at what's happening beyond the tips of their noses. We can either take part in this issue and its resolution, or we can continue to stick our heads in the sand and let the decisions be made for us. But it's never happened to you, right? Probably never will.  |
Damnut
| | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 06:25 pm: |
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I still wonder how many of these threads evolve into a bitch fest about nothing.
quit bitching would ya.
I HAVE A LOUD PIPE AND DON"T REALLY GIVE A CRAP WHAT YOU THINK!!!! if I get a ticket for it then that's MY PROBLEM!!!
back to your regularly scheduled nonsense. |
Firebolteric_ma
| | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 06:40 pm: |
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ALL TOGETHER NOW!!!!!!!!!!
.
.
.
.
 |
Aeroe
| | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 08:46 pm: |
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pwnzor,
You are my hero, seriously. I've been laughing out loud ever since you started posting!
Some people just don't get it... |
Roadrailer
| | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 09:34 pm: |
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Some people just don't get it...
Funny, that's exactly what I was thinking... |
Jwhite601
| | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 09:56 pm: |
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We DO NOT need new laws, as a matter of fact, every city that ive been associated with,(gotten tickets) have a noise law they can pull on ya anytime they wanna. I think we should cut the number of congressmen and senators and crap in half, and spend about 2 yrs revoting on old laws, to do some purging.
Somebody tell me how many laws are on the books? Have we hit a billion yet? |
Pwnzor
| | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 11:55 pm: |
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We can either take part in this issue and its resolution
Like I said, vote Republican.
They discover your illegal equipment, you get a nice juicy ticket.
Welcome to the wonderful world of lawyers. Mine happens to be very good. And, once again, PERSONAL CONDUCT.
I HAVE A LOUD PIPE AND DON"T REALLY GIVE A CRAP WHAT YOU THINK!!!! if I get a ticket for it then that's MY PROBLEM!!!
LOL, hallelujah brother! Testify!
I am not worried one little bit about any of this. I'm not a throttle-blipping attention wh0re who gets tickets. Period. |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 12:44 am: |
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Pwnzor,
If you really wanted to help ensure that unnecessary laws were enacted, wouldn't you need to vote libertarian vs. Republican?
Just askin'.
My gripe isn't with loud pipes or people who want to be jerks. My problem with the "nanny state" folks.
You can't remove a$$holes from the population, but you can punish the vast majority for the actions of a fractional minority.
Punisher the offender not the innocent. |
Pwnzor
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 10:49 am: |
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If you really wanted to help ensure that unnecessary laws were enacted, wouldn't you need to vote libertarian vs. Republican?
I'm sure you meant "weren't enacted", right?
I suppose you could vote Libertarian, if you wanted to throw your vote away. Until the Libertarians start fielding some winning candidates there's not much point is there?
I would love to register as a Libertarian voter. Problem is, it's like throwing your vote right down a hole. All it does is serve to take the vote AWAY from the other two parties, which really only results in one of THEM getting elected anyway.
Getting off topic there... My point was that the so-called "liberals" are exactly the opposite of what they claim to be. "Secular Progressive Big Government Socialists" is more like it.
Now let's not turn this into a political debate, I'm a Republican, but I'm pretty unhappy about all the crap going on just like the rest of you. Pobody's nerfect.
Back on topic... linking a few articles about some pissed off senior citizens and crybabies around the country doesn't prove a damn thing. There are 300 million people here, and unless you can post about a million articles on the subject, I'm just not even going to consider it an issue. Squeaky-wheel minorities have gotten laws passed all over the place, but after they get their way for a few weeks or months, the whole thing just goes away, as do they, because their attention span, like a 3 year old, will not allow them to focus for very long.
It is STILL against the law to kiss your WIFE on a public street in Long Beach, California. It is similarly illegal for a horse to wear a hat.
I'm not making this up.
LOOK OUT!!!! That man's horse is wearing a Fedora!!!!!! |
Pwnzor
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 12:25 pm: |
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Guess I better stay out of Carefree, Arizona!
 |
Brineusaf
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 01:14 pm: |
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Seriously, I'm too lazy to click to the beginning to see who started the arguement saying we were giving bikers a bad rep.
Buellers are responsible for ALL OF THE LAWS coming into effect against motorcycles, I get your reasoning (sarcasm). Buell's make up how much % of ALL of the motorcycles in the world? Just wondering.
Look at the examples of increased enforcement in this country, and the concern that HD and the AMA seem to have about it. Still a non-issue?
How are you going to quote me, and then not look to see where I am located? So to answer your question/statement - I don't see much increased enforcement in this country, nor the others which I can ride to.
I haven't gotten a ticket, and if I do big deal - I'm willing to pay the price.
I've heard some mopeds/scooters more annoying than any liter bike or harley. |
Slaughter
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 09:47 pm: |
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Nice ride in the twisties
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FttBOHjRN3k |
Pwnzor
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 11:30 pm: |
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Hey that was an XBR on the wrong side of the double yellows there...
I guess that means we're all going to have to turn our motorcycles over to the government to be crushed, and report to the coal mines for slave labor!
 |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 11:39 pm: |
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No. Just the yellow ones.  |
Pwnzor
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 12:37 pm: |
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I'll go along with that since mine is the best color anyway... red.
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Slaughter
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 06:10 pm: |
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Blue is faster.
Red is louder.
Yellow is just... well... criminal!
Mine is white. The color of washing machines, refrigerators, toilet bowls and other glamorous appliances. |
Pwnzor
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 06:20 pm: |
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LOL Steve, I didn't say "faster" I said "best".
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Slaughter
| | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 10:29 am: |
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Dang Matt,
Now I gotta reconsider my choice of fairing colors for the coming season!
You really KNOW how to mess up a man's mind! |
Xl1200r
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 27, 2006 - 10:22 am: |
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If you really wanted to help ensure that unnecessary laws were enacted, wouldn't you need to vote libertarian vs. Republican?
Assuming you meant "weren't", libertarian would not be the way to go. The beauty(?) of libertarianism is that anything that causes any undue harm to another person would become illegal. When you get down to it, any form of pollution could therefore be outlawed because of the harm it causes to other people. Most people don't seem to understand this concept of libertarianism.
But back to the situation at hand - I have to side with Pwnzor in all of this. All you have to do is be a nice guy and not ride around like a jerk off all the time, an people won't bother you. I've never been stopped, questioned, ticketed ever.
On this same token, however, going along with carrying yourself in a respectable manner - parking somewhere else is the only respectable thing to do here. It's not like they kicked your bike over or called the police right off - they asked nicely, so just oblige. It's not going to kill you. |
Warbaby
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 27, 2006 - 10:38 am: |
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But back to the situation at hand - I have to side with Pwnzor in all of this. All you have to do is be a nice guy and not ride around like a jerk off all the time, an people won't bother you. I've never been stopped, questioned, ticketed ever.
On this same token, however, going along with carrying yourself in a respectable manner - parking somewhere else is the only respectable thing to do here. It's not like they kicked your bike over or called the police right off - they asked nicely, so just oblige. It's not going to kill you.
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Aeroe
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 27, 2006 - 10:27 pm: |
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Assuming you meant "weren't", libertarian would not be the way to go. The beauty(?) of libertarianism is that anything that causes any undue harm to another person would become illegal. When you get down to it, any form of pollution could therefore be outlawed because of the harm it causes to other people. Most people don't seem to understand this concept of libertarianism.
But back to the situation at hand - I have to side with Pwnzor in all of this. All you have to do is be a nice guy and not ride around like a jerk off all the time, an people won't bother you. I've never been stopped, questioned, ticketed ever.
On this same token, however, going along with carrying yourself in a respectable manner - parking somewhere else is the only respectable thing to do here. It's not like they kicked your bike over or called the police right off - they asked nicely, so just oblige. It's not going to kill you.
lib·er·tar·i·an
n.
1. One who advocates maximizing individual rights and minimizing the role of the state.
2. One who believes in free will.
You can spin ANYTHING and make it cause undue harm on anyone. Max personal liberties and Min state involvement, live and let live. Vote Libertarian! We're going to take over some day, and that day will be glorious!
Oh, and you two are a little behind telling me not to part there anymore...} |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 27, 2006 - 10:57 pm: |
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Aeroe,
Are you still in school? I thought you were like 40 with 3 kids or something.
This thread isn't dead yet?
I don't know that I would vote Libertarian unless both the other candidates were absolutes sacks of crap, but I do espouse the doctrine of small government and personal responsibility.
Bring back the Republic! |
Aeroe
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 27, 2006 - 11:28 pm: |
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Aeroe,
Are you still in school? I thought you were like 40 with 3 kids or something.
Nope, Still in school. But with the way things are going, I'll be 40ish with 3 kids before this thread dies...
Kinda like the "Timepiece" thread huh?  |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Thursday, December 28, 2006 - 11:14 am: |
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Yeah except the timepiece thread is interesting! |
Pwnzor
| | Posted on Thursday, December 28, 2006 - 11:32 am: |
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"west dispatch, unit 1620"
"1620 go for west"
"1620 requesting backup on a 967 at PCH and the Traffic Circle"
"west 1620 affirmative, stand by... any units in the area respond for 1620"
"1531 west"
"1531 go for west"
"1531 10-17 to 1620's location code 3"
"1531 10-4 show you en route to 1620 code 3"
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