| Author | Message | ||
     Elvis |
For anyone who might have missed this, there are some interesting comments about Hal's race plans here: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/171 43/243998.html?1165453442 | ||
| Jscott |
It's amazing what kind of honest answers you can get when you just ask the questions. I'm currently waiting on a reply from Deeley's concerning the upcomming season. With Picotte teaming up with Suzuki and Crevier rumored to fill his shoes at Yamaha, the Canadian contingent is looking pretty doubtful as well. We'll see. | ||
| Buellshyter |
I'm saddened to learn there will be no Buell's in FX next year. I was never into track racing until last year. I started on the dirt and motocross was my thing but I was really becoming addicted to following Buell. I've read some great posts on this subject and I would like to add my two cents worth. It was suggested that Jay Leno be approached for sponsorship or field his own team like Michael Jordan. Leno is certainly an avid motorcycle enthusiast and appears to be patriotic about the home team but he also comes across as a perfectionist. I believe it would be premature to seek his sponsorship before Buell fields a bike that can consistently finish a race without mechanical problems. However, that issue not withstanding, it would be a great idea. He certainly has the money, the name recognition and the passion. I have to agree with the camp that feels HD should step-up. Why did HD invest in Buell? I know the short answer is to make money but Buell was a small company NOT making money, if I have my facts correct. So, the answer must be they saw it as a long term investment with the key word being investment. Therefore, I say, INVEST. For those that say Buell would lose it's autonomy, hasn't it already? HD sent over an exec to run the company, did they not? It was speculated that HD has to answer to shareholders and cannot justify blowing money on racing. However, that is flawed logic. How can you quantify the good-will, loyalty and passion that come from a successful racing effort? Corporations pay millions of dollars to their CEO’s without a shred of evidence there is a direct correlation between corporate earnings and the CEO’s earnings. Yes, HD is very successful but some of that is from pure plain dumb luck and timing and let's face it, things change. What works today might not work tomorrow and the average age of an HD rider keeps climbing, along with the price of the bikes, every year, and those facts don't lie. At this point in HD’s history, their success has more to do with their customers’ fanatic loyalty then it has to do with anything they are doing internally. In other words, they are coasting. I wouldn’t look to HD as a model of great corporate management despite their current performance and I wouldn’t want Buell to become caught up in the HD status quo approach to things. What is needed is money from HD and continued innovation from Buell. | ||
| Jimidan |
Michael Jordan and Jay Leno have considerably different situations when it comes to sponsoring a team. Jordan is a businessman who recognized that he could advertise and promote his Jumpman clothing and motorcycle accessories business at the same time as he enjoyed his new addiction for the sport. His race team and his trips all over the World to watch MotoGP races are also tax deductions. Jordan really started the whole thing just to let his buddy Montez live out his dream of being a professional racer. Montez's problem was that he was 6'4" and not very good by pro standards, but he still got a couple of exciting years in there before Jordan pulled his plug and got serious. Jordan's race team sort of evolved from that into a going concern after he met Jason Pridmore. Obviously, Jay Leno is a talk show host who is also a motorcycle (as well as certifiably "car crazy") enthusiast, and I know of no business interests that he could promote and/or use for tax purposes, although he may have one. It would appear that he does not have the same incentives as Jordan to make a like venture profitable to him. Sure he has a lot of money, and could afford it easily, but could he answer the question, "What's in it for me?" with a positive response. Jordan can. Neither one of these guys has deep pockets like the military recruitment budget of $4 Billion (with a "B") though, and Army would look good on the side of an XBRR. The XBRR epitomizes all that the Army portends to be. But hey, it may be worth a shot to get contact Leno with a proposal...how do you get ahold of Jay anyway? I seem to have misplaced his number. jimidan | ||
| Smoke |
if someonr can write the proposal in a snappy, professional, detailed, short manner, i might know someone that could get it to Jay. i have never met or spoken with him, but two acquaintances have been dealing with him on the MTT turbine bike and the turbine concept car. it may be kind of late for this season coming up. i think what is needed is a team with bikes, riders and support team ready to go with the commitment to compete the series but not the budget. someone already had the easiest idea that would take commitment at a local level. put a stand in every H-D dealership with a Support Buell Racing donor pledge sign up. the hard part would be to come to an agreement of whom to support. pm me if you think it can be done. tim | ||
| Court |
>>>>how do you get ahold of Jay anyway? I used to always call Helen Kushnick. What a shame it was loosing her. She was Jay's right hand. I remember the first time Jay participated in a big Buell event. A fellow from the a H.O.G. chapter had called wanting to get in touch with Leno. I got the information to Helen. About 3 days later, about 11:00PM Central Time, my phone rings . . . with a "hey, you'll never guess who just called me". Leno is one of the folks who is as genuine as he seems. | ||
| Elvis |
Here's the proposal: Mr. Leno, As I'm sure you are at least somewhat aware, Buell motorcycles has been trying to increase their racing presence with their introduction of the XBRR race bike. Since Buell has limited resources, they had hoped independant, dealer teams would contest the XBRR in the high profile AMA Formula X-treme and other, lower profile venues. Several dealers stepped up, and four Buells entered the Daytona 200. Unfortunately, the virgin platform still had bugs and none finished. Those poor results dampened enthusiasm, and dealer teams were only able to offer spotty appearances in Formula X-Treme after that. While the bike showed some promise - with a couple top ten finishes and some qualifying times that approached the top 5 pack - the lack of resources from the dealer teams prevented anybody from competing in a solid, consistent effort. This year it seems that limited resources will again limit the bike's appearances. Estimates are that it would require roughly $1 million dollars to compete consistently throughout the season. Here is our proposal. You set up an entity called "Jay Leno Racing" and contact Erik Buell for some guidance in partnering with an existing dealer team (such as Hal's PA, Deeley's, Warr's etc.). You provide the name and financing, they provide the racing expertise and do all the real ground work, so that it becomes "Jay Leno Racing (in conjunction with Hal's PA)" for example. The objective of this racing team is to put a production based american motorcycle on a podium in a major road race for the first time in over 35 years. You then sell the documentary rights to a TV or film producer (what reality show could be more compelling than this? REAL unscripted competition involving one of America's favorite things - motorcycles - and one of America's favorite people - you). Now, with the attention your name will generate, sponsorships should be relatively easy to come by. You can also sell T-shirts, mugs, etc. anything you can to help off-set your investment. Best case scenerio - You have the time of your life, make history, become a hero to American race fans everywhere, and make a few million in the process. Worst case scenerio - You have the time of your life, become a hero to American Race fans everywhere . . . all for the price of one Bugatti. Please consider it. (Message edited by elvis on December 07, 2006) (Message edited by elvis on December 07, 2006) | ||
| José_quiñones |
I would mention some California Buell dealers that race too. Letterman has the Letterman/Rahal Indy car team, that should be enough reason for Jay to set up his own team, just to compete with Dave at some level. | ||
| Jscott |
OK, let's really go out on a limb... Let's get some riders and bikes. Doug Chandler and Kurtis Roberts have announced the creation of a team called NFS Racing (NoFactorySupport). However I'm sure this is in the exploritory phase as well. Like Elvis has mentioned, they to are working on a "reality" show for presumably the SPEED Channel. How's about supplying them with XBRR's and technical support. They mentioned SuperBike, but with the depth of field this year, they would probably get more bang for their buck in FX. Basically after Daytona, Zemke, DuHamel, and DiSalvo will all leave the class and return to SuperBike. This will leave a field comprised of 2 Erion Honda's, Barney on an M4 Emgo Suzuki, Larry Pegrams Ducati team, Attack Kawasaki and a host of privateers. Much better podium chances me thinks. Let's get a team. Also remember that last years Ducati team? Well that team was run by Terry Gregoricka, who also owns a handful of HD dealerships. Terry used to campaign a dealer VR1000 team back in the day that occasionaly finished infront of the factory VR1000 guys. Gary Medley their crew chief has not been linked to any new teams this year. This can keep Terry active in the AMA, while awaiting potential rules changes that Ducati will require to return to the SuperBike class. There you have it folks... A much overslimpfied and unprobable solution to the Buell FX hurdle this year. Fun nontheless. (Message edited by JScott on December 07, 2006) | ||
| Jscott |
Just thought of another potential sponsor... Arlen Ness. How many racers worldwide have you seen wearing his branded racing leathers? A whole lot. How about jumping full force into racing Arlen? The Ness empire is friggin huge. | ||
| Trojan |
Just thought of another potential sponsor... Arlen Ness. How many racers worldwide have you seen wearing his branded racing leathers? A whole lot. How about jumping full force into racing Arlen? The Ness empire is friggin huge. The Arlen Ness leathers have no connection (other than by licensing the name) to the custom bike builder. They are part of a Malaysian (?) company called Berik design and they already sponsor a large number of MotoGP and WSB riders, so are unlikely to want to sponsor a team. The trouble with attracting Big money sponsors is that amount of support is generally proportionate to the amount of press coverage etc. A full on FX effort would need around US$1m according to what I read here, and for that a sponsor would want his pound of flesh in the form of some prime time TV exposure, promotional appearances and some serious race and championship results. The problem with FX is that it just doesn't get $1m worth of exposure at present, whereas Superbikes do. I think it extremely unlikely that one sponsor would cover the whole cost of racing for the year. More likely is that a group of sponsors may agree to stump up a portion of the cost each. (Message edited by trojan on December 07, 2006) | ||
| Jscott |
Yes Matt, that is why I used the term "branded". However if Ness is licensing his name to be used for racing, why not get really involved in racing? | ||
| Trojan |
What would Ness have to gain from road racing? He already has his reputation built from years of building extreme custom bikes and selling Harley bling. He has no history of being involved in road racing and little to gain from any involvement. If he sponsored a bike and it didn't work out he would suffer. | ||
| Jscott |
Matt, I don't have answers to your questions. I'm just thinking out loud as to how we can get a Buell team back where it belongs in the AMA. | ||
| Jimidan |
Elvis, I like your letter to Leno. Might I suggest that you make mention of Jordan and his team somewhere in the body. good work man, jimidan | ||
| Elvis |
If anyone has any contacts with Jay Leno (or others such as Arlen Ness) who they think might be interested, please feel free to make any adjustments and use as much or as little of that proposal as you want and then pass it on. If I had 10 million dollars, I'd spend 1 million trying something like that. Why not? | ||
| Rubberdown |
O.k., I'm dense. Help me out please. Are there any XBRR's running the 200 at Daytona 2007? Thanks. | ||
| Rocketman |
Worst case scenerio - You have the time of your life, become a hero to American Race fans everywhere . . . all for the price of one Bugatti. I'd take the Bugatti  Rocket | ||
| Jscott |
Rubberdown, as of yet there has been no confirmation whether any Buell's will be participating in the 200. While things look grim, we can still hope that funding will come through. | ||
| Ceejay |
Why not hit PM up? They have pro stock teams, dirt track bikes, and probably 60% of thier market share is attributed to HD and derivatives. While the kid has been playing around with the chopper stuff(they are damn cool though) it seems he could use his name, experience, and company backing to help out another smaller american company... | ||
| Whodom |
Elvis, Well-written letter. Go for it. One thought- Leno is known to have a full-tilt modified red XB12R; does anyone know who built the bike? Maybe they'd be a good way of contacting Leno regarding backing an XBRR race effort? | ||
| Daves |
it was done by Hal's | ||
| Rubberdown |
HD needs to step up. Period. Blah blah blah, racing is in their blood, heard it a million times. They ought to know the first rule of racing: put up or shut up. | ||
| Jscott |
"HD needs to step up." You'll get no argument from my self concerning that point. However HD seems to think otherwise. | ||
| Elvis |
Well I started a thread on Jay Leno's Garage forum: http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/boards/index.php?sho wtopic=5462&st=0&gopid=18303&#entry18303 So we can see if he comments. | ||
| Trojan |
Matt, I don't have answers to your questions. I'm just thinking out loud as to how we can get a Buell team back where it belongs in the AMA. Hey Scotty, I'm not trying to pour water on anybody's effort to get the XBRR back in the top flight of AMA racing. However having been involved in racing on both sides of the fence over the last 6 years, as a sponsor and as the guy holding out the begging bowl, I can say that getting financial support for a race effort is rarely as simple as writing a letter and hoping the good fairy will appear with wads of cash. Some things to bear in mind would be: 1. The guys directly involved in racing the XBRR, from the factory to the various teams are all very experienced, and have probably already tried pretty much every available avenue in order to get sponsorship for 2007. 2. Getting major sponsorship is very much a chicken and egg situation. Sponsors like to see an established team (or at least a very detailed business plan to set one up) already set up that is ready to go out and get results straight away. Setting up a team costs money that isn't there until the sponsors come onboard..catch 22. 3. The bigger the corporation you approach, the more people you have to convince to part with money and the less chance you have of success. The ideal sponsor is a rich individual or company headed by an individual who has an interest in racing (Michael Jordan is a good example). These sponsors are more driven by involvement than results and are more likely to get involved in an 'infant' project than purely commercial sponsors. 4. 'Results' driven sponsors want results immediately. It is very rare to get a sponsor wiling to fund a 'building' year unless there are other benefits to be had from it such as a potential profit from any R&D work etc. 5. Sponsorship can be a double edged sword for some companies. Imagine a picture of a UPS or Microsoft dsponsored bike broken down or crashed. Not a good image, and one that a lot of sponsors are frightened of. Some time ago there was an advert in the UK motorcycle press for a breakdown recovery service that had a picture of a guy pushing his bike along the road side. The bike in the picture was a Buell X1 and everyone that I know commented upon it. I'm sure there was no intention by the advertiser but it undoubtedly had a negative effect. 6. Value for Money. Motorsport is a tiny speck (if that)on the radar of most major companies when it comes to promotional/advertising budgets, and motorcycling is a tiny aspect of motorsport. Convincing a corporation that $1 million is well spent with no tangible product at the end of it is a big ask. | ||
| Jscott |
Right on Matty! I admittingly don't know squat about the business end of racing. If you read one of my post I clearly stated that "There you have it folks... A much overslimpfied and unprobable solution to the Buell FX hurdle this year. Fun nontheless.". At this point I hope that the whole "Jay Leno" approach pulls through. Hey if it does, maybe we can get him to sponsor your UK racing scene as well, since Buell declined to. (Message edited by JScott on December 08, 2006) | ||
| Cluckcluckpush |
It would be easier if the bike could compete. Hard to lure sponsors without a bike, or a rider. Who wants their name on a 10th place bike, it's only a quarter million. If the parent company doesn't feel it's worth it, who will? | ||
| Anonymous |
Here's my opinion (guess) why there is no Harley-Davidson sponsorship of Buell racing. The parent company doesn't need press; they are already recognized beyond belief. Companies sponsor racing because it gets their brand name known and loved by a new audience. It appears Harley-Davidson feels they don't need any more recognition or love. The Harley-Davidson brand motorcycle division need to promote the general use of motorcycles (particularly chopper style) to an audience that currently isn't buying motorcycles. Therefore their marketing dollars go to promotions that get to these potential customers, not racing. In they may even feel roadracing might distract from promotion of cruisers, choppers and touring bikes. What is not recognized by the enthusiasts is that Buell is a part of Harley-Daividson's corporate group, but not of the Harley-Davidson motorcycle division. As such, Harley-Davidson motorcycle advertising budget is not available to Buell. My bet is that Harley-Davidson corporate does not have a marketing budget. Now, that may be very short sighted of the company, but that is what it looks like to me. Therefore Buell racing has to come out of Buell's budget, or from an outside company that wants to be recognized as promoting an underdog American company to a dedicated but not very large audience. Ccp, your comment about it being harder to get sponsorship for a company that is not winning is certainly true. It has happened, however, and is one way that non-winning products get to the podium (money is crucial, y'know). The only other method is paying for it internally, which it is evident Buell cannot do yet. I think Buell is around $100 million in sales, so running a multi million dollar factory race program would be tough. This is especially true when you look at the sales price of the products vs. the size of the company and the content in the products. I'll bet there is not a huge margin for covering SG&A expenses, which is where racing would be. Somebody posted on here that Buell will have to earn there way into racing. I'm betting Buell will have to be at least twice it's size before it can field a serious factory effort. My bet is that a real factory effort competing for the championship against Yamaha and Honda, etc. Would be $3 million, or 3% of sales. Now since H-D is a $6 billion dollar company, that would be the equivalent of them spending $180 million a year on racing, which I am willing to bet they aren't doing! So, I am hoping every last cent of spare money is being spent on new products to get Buell to the size that can afford to factory race. Well, I take that back slightly, I'm glad that Buell puts some of their meager money into contingencies for delar/privateer contingency! I'm also glad they built the XBRR's, even if they haven't won in AMA! | ||
| Jimidan |
Anony, thanks for the excellent elucidation, it makes a lot of sense. Where have you been? Buell does need the press as it is unrecognized beyond belief. It is amazing that so many folks still walk up to me at gas stations and say "Cool bike, man!", and then ask me what kind it is. There seems to be little progress in the public's brand recognition for Buell since I bought my first one in 1998. When I tell these folks that it is a Buell, owned by HD, their jaws drop. This is inexcusable in this day, and represents a major failure in marketing strategy. Of course, part of the problem lies in the fact that so many HD dealerships do not even carry Buell (less than in 1998?), and those that do fail to promote and properly display them. Since Buell is a wholly owned subsidiary of HD, it would seem apparent that the more money Buell makes the better HD does (I don't know what % of Buell receipts HD gets, but they bought them for a reason). Therefore, it would appear that the MoCo has a vested interest in promoting Buell, its own sportbike division (in actuality, if not on paper). Everybody (except the MoCo...it has apparently forgotten) knows that the best way to promote a sportbike is to a dedicated audience who is interested in this class of machine...like at the road races. I believe the old axiom of what wins on Sunday, sells on Monday...it is tried and true. So the MoCo's marketing strategy seems a bit short sighted because of a Chinese wall  that it has constructed between it and Buell. There is an apparent Cold War going on inside them halls. Mr. Davidson, tear down these walls!  I am glad that Buell supports CCS and ASRA racing too, as it is a major source of my recreation. It is suprising how few of the Buell "faithful" actually attend these outstanding races. AMA FX isn't nearly as competitive or as interesting to watch as CCS and ASRA racing. jimidan (Message edited by jimidan on December 09, 2006) |
