| Author | Message | ||
     Lowjoe |
Hey guys, I'm new to the board and to Buells. I'm hoping to get a Lightning XB12Scg in the next 2-3 months. I was wondering what is the best price someone has negotiated for??...I'm hoping not to pay MSRP... ThanX | ||
| Khollister |
Since you are in CA, I'm not sure what use my FL data is, but most dealers are at MSRP. Some charge Freight and/or setup. some not. The cheapest deal I know of is at Ocala HD/Buell - they sell $1000 under MSRP. Not sure about fees, if any. | ||
| Angelwild327 |
Good luck, Lowjoe...I suggest if you don't want to pay msrp, get a used scg..and if you're in love with the newer colors, just buy a set of plastics that you like, they're not too expensive....just about anyplace you try is going to be at least MSRP...and I know you have special needs for CA emissions... not to discourage you...I hope you can find something for a great price...but remember, the 05 and 06 models are just as awesome and you'll save some dough too! | ||
| Khollister |
The 07's have much better tires, an improved oil pump and an improved airbox with new ECM mapping. There are also differences in the rocker box design and gaskets. | ||
| Lowjoe |
ThanX for the info... Its interesting that most of you say that Buell dealers sell at MSRP...most people I know and myself included, have bought sportbikes discounted from MSRP....actually the dealers here are willing to cut you a discount on jap sportbikes...it's strange the Buell dealers do not...am I missing something???? | ||
| Mikemax |
In the Bay Area it was $2K+ over MSRP when I bought mine at the beginning of the summer so I bought down in Simi Valley. It ended up just under MSRP out the door. | ||
| Khollister |
"actually the dealers here are willing to cut you a discount on jap sportbikes...it's strange the Buell dealers do not...am I missing something????" Yeah - they're Harley dealers. This is all a holdover from the practice of marking HD's up over MSRP by thousands of dollars several years ago when supply was tight. The dealers are afraid to start discounting Buells because of the HD buyers starting to refuse to pay MSRP plus BS fees on top of that. | ||
| Bookyoh |
Lowjoe: I don't know how much help Ohio information will be but I travel from Cincinnati to Detroit a few times a year and stop at each of the HD/Buell dealers along the way. Right off of Interstate 75 has about 5 of them (Dayton OH, Lima OH, Mansfield OH, Toledo OH, and south of Detroit). I routinely see at least $1000 off in 2 or 3 of these depending on time of year. I've seen the same at the dealer south of Cleveland OH (I-71 and I-271). Mark | ||
| Cochise |
LowJoe, I wouldn't have a problem paying that as long as I got some stuff with it. Ask them to throw in a Riding Jacket, or an exhaust or something along those lines. | ||
| Clown |
I'm not trying be an ass, but where is written that something should be "thrown in" or given to someone when buying a bike? MSRP is a fair price for both the dealer and the consumer. When you guys go to the grocery store, do you ask them to throw in a bottle of milk when you buy cereal? In my opinion huge discounts on bikes implies that your MSRP was too high to begin with. At our dealership we have always charged MSRP on Harley's and Buell's. Even when dealers were charging way over sticker, we held the line at MSRP. Just my 2 cents, not trying to start an argument. | ||
| Daves |
We sell our bikes, both HDs and Buells at MSRP too Clown. Even back in the "gravy years" the dealership priced the HDs at MSRP. In today's market there are a lot of dealers advertising really low,off MSRP prices and then charge 1000.00 to 1500.00 for the frt and setup. You need to look at the final price for the bike. That is the ONLY number that matters. Deal with a dealership that doesn't play games with the price. | ||
| Cochise |
I'm not trying be an ass, but where is written that something should be "thrown in" or given to someone when buying a bike? MY comment meant nothing. I paid what DaveS asked me to pay when I paid, I did the same for Josh's dealership. I got this thread mixed up with another thread, on the gouging part, so I will say what I said on the correct thread. I am sorry what I said offended you, Clown. (Message edited by cochise on October 08, 2006) | ||
| Clown |
I was not offended. Cochise, I was not directing my statements at you. I was speaking of people in general. Customers come into the shop everyday asking what we will "throw in" with the deal. If I give you a good value and service, I shouldn't have to give stuff away. If you don't know how to sell or treat people with respect and honesty, your last hope to sell a bike is to drop the price. I just don't get the some customer's mentality sometimes. | ||
| Khollister |
My personal problem with how business is conducted at almost every HD/Buell dealer I have shopped at is what I perceive as misrepresentation. It's usually some form of the following conversation: ME: "What do you all sell this bike for?" THEM: "MSRP" ME: "$10, 495?" (in the case of an XB12) THEM: "Yep" ME: "What's the OTD price?" THEM: They come back with a number several hundred dollars higher than MSRP+tax+tag ME: "That's not MSRP" THEM: "Well we have to include freight, setup, doc fees, etc." Then they start acting all insulted that I don't know this. I have 2 problems here: 1) Feeling like I'm being played by giving a "trick" answer to "what's the selling price?" 2) Why are HD dealers entitled to windfall profit on a bike sale. Is the dealer margin on a Buell or HD that much less than the other usual suspects? This is part of why I feel many dealers have so much left over stock of Buells - the target market is looking at a bike that not only has a higher MSRP, but the actual cost difference is even greater due to MSRP+fees+tax versus MSRP-discount+tax for imported sportbikes. The reason that I and others will often suggest "throwing something in for free" as a negotiating tactic is the buyer gets the retail value of the swag, but it only costs the dealer the wholesale price. It should be more attractive to sweeten the pot with stuff than shaving the same amount off the bottom line. Look, I totally agree that it is anyone's right to ask whatever they feel is appropriate for something they sell. I. as a consumer, can walk away if I feel it isn't fair. I also think it is being a little too sensitive on the part of a seller to take offense at counter offers - vehicle purchases have historically been negotiated transactions. I also feel that the respect & honesty Clown references includes a fair & complete disclosure of what the selling price is when asked. I find it amazing that 2 apparently successful dealerships in FL that have been here for many years can be $1000 - $1500 apart on a Buell & the more expensive guy claims he would lose money at the cheaper dealer's price. And it's not like the expensive guy is using that profit to maintain a well stocked P&A inventory for Buells, sponsoring a BRAG chapter or hiring knowledgable sales & parts folks for Buell - these guys have nothing stock, nor do they appear to have anyone who cares. I will also be quick to state that I have had nothing but great service (and price) from the one dealer rep I have dealt with on Badweb (Daves). If I'm suffering from cranial-rectal inversion here, someone explain to me what's going on. It just seems like most HD dealers are working on much larger margins than the import guys. While this has worked for the recent HD market audience, I really feel it is killing Buell sales due to the average age of the Buell buyer as well as the lack of a history & "lifestyle" that sells so many HD's. Keith | ||
| Glitch |
Keith, that's why every time I'm talking price with any dealer, weather it be cars or bikes, I ask what the Out The Door price is. Then you can compare with other dealers. | ||
| Khollister |
Glitch, I agree, but the problem is most of these guys down here won't even give you an OTD price unless you have filled out a credit app and said you are ready to buy the bike today. I have found exactly 2 dealers in FL that will do that (unfortunately the one that is reasonably close is not a Buell dealer - I did buy my Road King there). | ||
| Acejay |
clown, i think your getting a bit serious. if im spending $10,000 (or over here $18,000) on a bike, would it not be correct to call me an idiot if i didn't try to bargain for a deal. and if the bike price is inflexible, then it should be a good chance to get a bargain on some riding gear or aftermarket parts etc. khollister sums it up well. | ||
| Lowjoe |
Hmm....after reading all the posts, it really is a shame the way Buell/HD dealers are...it makes me rethink about getting a Buell...with an MSRP higher than the new 600cc jap-bikes and no discounting, it kinda puts the hammer down on the idea of getting one.... (Message edited by lowjoe on October 08, 2006) | ||
| Khollister |
Lowjoe, Don't read more into what I said then is there. Do I wish the average HD dealer would market Buell differently? -yes. However, I would buy another without hesitation because the XB gives me things that I can't get elsewhere (feel, handling, uniqueness, engineering, sound, American made, oddball combination of high tech and low tech). If you measure bike performance as acceleration and top speed, then no V-twin is the right answer for you. Value can be measured in a number of ways. I will pay MSRP for an XB12S because I get value from the total package. Don't let a dealer ruin a marque for you. There are plenty of dealers around, some of which do not deal off the bottom of the deck. Deciding to purchase an R6 over a XB12 because the R6 is discounted below sticker is a damn strange way to make a decision IMHO. An R6 rides nothing like a Buell. Many facets of the riding experience are completely different. What I take away from your last post is "any bike will do as long as it is fast and cheap". If so, then you are not a candidate for any of the exotic brands (Ducati, Buell, MV, Aprillia, etc). That said, if you really want straight line speed in a sport bike at low cost, then you would not be happy with a Buell at $1000 below MSRP. Buell's are like Harley's in that the allure is the total experience, not an objective spec sheet. I don;t own a Road King because it's the fastest, best handling, cheapest, smoothest or whatever. I own Harleys because they feel unique, have tons of personality and have a rich legacy going back 100 years. Buell doesn't have history, but where else, for example, can you get a street bike with the geometry & feel of a 250 GP race bike? Put a Drummer or Special Ops pipe on a Buell and tell me any other sport bike (other than Duc's) sounds anywhere that cool? What about belt drive - silent, smooth, zero maintenance? Lowest maintenance of any sport bike & engine life in excess of most as well? Figure out what you want from a bike before getting wrapped around the axle on cost. Keith | ||
| Khollister |
BTW, I did not mean to paint all HD/Buell dealers with the same brush. While I feel many are difficult to work with and are borderline unethical in some of their sales practices, that is not to say they are all like that. If anyone feels I maligned Dave, Josh or the other folks here that go out of their way to help us and earn our business, then I apologize right here. That was never my intent. When I was trying to decide which seat to get, Dave pulled them both out of stock, installed them on a bike & sat on them to try & determine which had the lower seat height - that's service & he earned my business on the spot. Most of the shops around here couldn't be bothered to do anything like that. | ||
| Oldog |
I was speaking of people in general. Customers come into the shop everyday asking what we will "throw in" with the deal. If I give you a good value and service, I shouldn't have to give stuff away. A bargain is getting what Clown and Daves describe above, Contact either dealer for a part and you have a good chance of getting it why, because they are making money. There is no good reason to stay in business if you are not. Remember you have an option If you Think that the price is too high do business else where, If you want a Buell, And PARTS and SERVICE the dealers have to make money. Hey LowJoe; If you finnancing the sled **** your barking up the wrong tree any way. } | ||
| Glitch |
Not to mention service after the sale. SMHD&BUELL wasn't always what they are today. When I was looking at my bike, it looked as though they lost interest in me after I made it clear I wanted to buy a Buell, then after the sale, there was no "welcome back" or anything. Now that Clown has taken over the whole place has changed, and I'm proud to know him, and give them my business. Having to overcome what was is a difficult thing, and Clown has done a most excellent job! | ||
| Diablobrian |
Some people have a hard time with the concept that the lowest price does not always equal the best deal. I'm a cheapskate myself, but I'll pay a little more for better service because on the bottom line it means less stress for me when the sale is over and I need help resolving a problem. For instance: I bought the Corbin seat for my Firebolt from Al at American Sport Bike. There are other vendors out there with lower prices...but when Corbin re-designed the mounting hardware Al dealt with Corbin's infamous customer service department and then Al mailed me the new bracket kit out of his own pocket. He didn't just give me Corbin's number and wish me best of luck. That is just one example out of many in my experience. There are times to cut corners and go for the cheapest bottom line at all costs. I just don't think buying a vehicle is one of those times. You want to know the kicker? the sponsors on this board go out of their way every single day trying to help people that will in all likelihood never see the inside of their dealership. That's because they believe in Buell, and believe in the people. I would like these guys to stay around. The only way that happens is through patronage. Thanks: Clown, DaveS, Mutant, Chellem, Al_Lighton, KDFab, Josh_Cox, Skully, Revperf, Odie, Trojan, Buellerthanyou, Pammy, Jens, Buckinfubba, Buellpartsman1, and all the others hat have taken the leap that I was always told was the worst thing a person could do: turn your hobby into your job. You all have proven to me through your dedication that not only is it a good idea, I want in on it! | ||
| Brucelee |
I was not offended. Cochise, I was not directing my statements at you. I was speaking of people in general. Customers come into the shop everyday asking what we will "throw in" with the deal. If I give you a good value and service, I shouldn't have to give stuff away. If you don't know how to sell or treat people with respect and honesty, your last hope to sell a bike is to drop the price. I just don't get the some customer's mentality sometimes. As a former car dearer, this is perhaps the silliest post I have ever seen. Are you telling me that when the dealer buys materials, supplies, etc. from HIS vendor, he does not try to gain the best value from each transaction that he makes? When you offer a trade in value, your are offering HOW MUCH? Hmmmm! So, the buyer "offends" you when he tries to do the same? | ||
| Greenlantern |
In my purchasing experience, a good dealer will NOT use $$ as a leverage point in a sale. They tend to have confidence in their product and dealership and will take equal time to represent both thoroughly during their presentation.I love MSRP pricing as it gives you a point of reference when $$ finally do come into the sale process. At this point I need only pay attention to taxes,prep,Insurance and that other fun stuff to make sure there is no sucker punch looming.In contrast every time I have strayed this path and went for the "best price guaranteed" route, I ended up paying for it later.The dealer I ordered my 2007 12Ss from ( 1 more week and she's mine HA HA HEE HEE!)loves Buell, talked Buell, showed me around a shop that SERVICES Buell! That made my decision and $$ never once had to came into the conversation. Oh and he has gone out of his way to secure this bike for me as they are not exactly falling out of trees around here and has weathered my "where's my bike" phone calls with proffesionalism.BTW, he gave me a nice break on Msrp too (After the deal, I never asked)! | ||
| Glitch |
from HIS vendor The vendor in this case would be Buell. How many cars did you sell that you threw in a racing exhaust to make the sale? | ||
| Brucelee |
The vendor in this case would be Buell. How many cars did you sell that you threw in a racing exhaust to make the sale? Well, a HD dealer "purchases" many many things besides the bikes from Buell. Think that over for a bit. They "purchase" building, land, insurance, utilities, etc. They even purchase things like "labor" that gets factored into how much revenue they would like to get or have to get per bike or car. Do you think they pay employees what the employee wants without bargaining? How about rent, is that paid at MSRP? I don't think so. I have "thrown in" many things in my day to obtain a sale. As long as I am happy with the overall value that I obtained from the transaction, I was fine about it. | ||
| Clown |
Brucelee, First-- I was not offended by anyone's comments. I do not get offended or angry easily. I'm pretty laid back about most things. My main Vendors are Harley and Buell. I have NO CHOICE or negotiation power on their prices. I pay what they ask or I don't get product. I always try to sell at MSRP, but I will give things away to make a sale. I have to look at the big picture. I don't want to make a huge profit on one transaction, I would rather make some profit on a lot of transactions. I will treat all customers honestly and fair. It just seems odd that the vehicle business is such a negotiation process (Cars or Bikes). I have a theory I try to follow: If I see a customer in a bar, I hope they would like to have a beer with me, rather than want to hit me with a bottle!" | ||
| Brucelee |
Brucelee, First-- I was not offended by anyone's comments. I do not get offended or angry easily. I'm pretty laid back about most things. My main Vendors are Harley and Buell. I have NO CHOICE or negotiation power on their prices. I pay what they ask or I don't get product. I always try to sell at MSRP, but I will give things away to make a sale. I have to look at the big picture. I don't want to make a huge profit on one transaction, I would rather make some profit on a lot of transactions. I will treat all customers honestly and fair. It just seems odd that the vehicle business is such a negotiation process (Cars or Bikes). I have a theory I try to follow: If I see a customer in a bar, I hope they would like to have a beer with me, rather than want to hit me with a bottle!" No argument there. Sounds like you have it pretty together IMHO! Nice to see and hear ethical conduct in action. | ||
| Glitch |
Glad that's cleared up! | ||
| Buellinator |
MSRP? Over MSRP? You guys are talking about Buells, aren't you? (ducking and running)  | ||
| Lowjoe |
Keith, I think you took my last post the wrong way. I could care less about speed, I could never see myself going past a 100mph. Nowadays, I'm more concerned about comfort and handling. When I sat on the XB12Scg, I said to myself, "Wow this bike is perfect for me, its so damn comfortable" but I kinda frowned when I saw the price tag. I'm on a tight budget right now and I'm always thinking of pinching every penny whether it is in the short term or long term (financing)...but who knows...maybe things will loosen up later, so we'll just have to see  ... |
