| Author | Message | ||
     Slickster |
XB Team Question as to what is the best method when slowing down. Many times I will downshift and release clutch to permit engine breaking when on downhills or long gradual breaking situations to save the brake pad wear. Friend that rides Buell and HD disagrees and says to pull clutch lever and use brakes only. His thought is that brakes are cheaper than clutch. My thought is clutch is much more durable than brake pads and will not be damaged by use for when engine braking. I like to keep bike in correct gear for the speed your are passing through to always be ready to throttle up if needed. Any thoughts Wayne | ||
| Old_man |
Ther should be no wear on your clutch when it is fully engaged while using the engine braking. | ||
| Punkid8888 |
I always downshift, and use engine braking, because I like to have the bike in the correct gear just case I need to get going again. The other thing I do is blip the throttle a little in sync with my foot for the down shift. On my old yamaha it helped downshifting making both the shift smoother and the release of the clutch less harsh. I have just started doing that on my new buell (450 miles) and it really seams to help the smooth the shifts | ||
| Old_man |
Good point Punkid8888, You should always try to match engine RPM to the road speed in the gear your downshifting to before shifting. | ||
| Lenb |
Use your brakes for braking. However there is no need to pull the clutch lever while braking. Pull the clutch only when you need to change gear (and blip the engine to match revs with road speed as Punkid8888 and Old_man said) You can of course use engine braking simply by shutting the throttle at any time. | ||
| Lovematt |
I would think pulling in the clutch just because you are braking should not be necessary. While the motor could affect speed control, it sounds like the throttle control or gear selection could be incorrect if it is creating a problem. I do pull in the clutch once in a while if I got my throttle control timing a little off to easy the power on transition. I tend to use the engine braking quite a lot...even when I had the few I4's in the past. It is just more natural to me to work with the motor than take it out of the equation. I have notice my brake pads wear out less quickly then others too. | ||
| Col_klink |
Slickster, your first sentence poses an ambiguous question that can be interpreted several ways, and thus has many answers: Emergency braking? Stopping for a light? Adjusting speed? I humbly suggest you seek professional instruction, not forum advice. Klink (Message edited by col_klink on August 24, 2006) | ||
| Xb12rdude |
Slickster, your first sentence poses an ambiguous question that can be interpreted several ways, and thus has many answers: Emergency braking? Stopping for a light? Adjusting speed? I humbly suggest you seek professional instruction, not forum advice. Klink I disagree, I haven't found a better place to get Buell information than this forum. I know tons of experts that can't answer my questions, but if I post it here.......it's answered within a day by people who ride,fix and love Buells. Just my 2 cents.} | ||
| Buellinblack |
your clutch mostly wears when you pull the lever in while the bike is rolling/moving | ||
| Old_man |
With the very steep, long hills here in western PA, I gear down all the time, better control and easier on the brakes. If I lived in the flatlands, probably not as necessary as here. | ||
| Blake |
It's mostly personal preference. I do either or both depending on my mood. It depends upon what kind of riding you might be doing too, aggressive versus not so aggressive. | ||
| Slickster |
Col_Klink This site seems to offer a much better range of information about Buells then using your suggestion of "seeking professional instruction". The other posters offered responses that answered my question. Possibly you did not get to the second sentence "Many times I will downshift and release clutch to permit engine braking when on downhills or long gradual breaking situations to save the brake pad wear" I trust most would not mistake that with maximum performance braking. If the necessary information was missing for you to respond, ask for more background information or add the differences to your answer, or even choose to not respond. Remember your self selected screen name Col_Klink...IIRC...In Klinks' situational comedy show from the past...Klink was usually threatened to be sent to the Russian Front when he did wrong....Play nice.  } Don't take this wrong just kidding you a bit. Lighten up. I do not plan to hire a professional question writer. Thanks everyone for the help. Slickster | ||
| Fullpower |
what engine braking? my XB takes 8 to 10 seconds to return to idle after closing throttle. | ||
| Old_man |
Fullpower, Although they have built in a delay to idle on the XB, it should not be 8 to 10 seconds. I had the same problem with my bike, in that it took a long time to return to idle. I fixed this by carefully setting the hot idle till the tach just danced over the 1000 rpm mark. It used to sit at a red light idling over 2000rpm. | ||
| Fullpower |
my hot idle is set to 1100, any lower and it had cold start problems. | ||
| Old_man |
I would then check for an air leak after the injector. Your bike should return to 1100rpm within a very short time after you close the throttle. | ||
| Fullpower |
ok, will check for leaks. have very recently replaced bothe injectors ( which come with new o-rings, and intake manifold seals. no change in behaviour. | ||
| Jlnance |
Slickster - I think it's more of a personal preference than one being better than the other. If I actually intend to stop, I use the brakes. If I want to adjust the speed of the bike, but not stop, I'll use engine braking. I find that I prefer not to use the brakes when riding through twisties (or semi twisties.) I just enjoy it more that way. So when the road starts to twist, I'll go down a gear or two. Sometimes I still have to use brakes, particularly if I'm going down hill, but most of the time it's just the engine controlling the speed. | ||
| Buelleghoulie |
What are these things you are atalking a-boot.... br--ake-s?? never heard ofem.  | ||
| Roadrage |
Well when I brake, the rear tire is usually a foot or two in the air, so I don't think downshifting would help.  | ||
| Brineusaf |
I use both, again as others have stated depending upon the situation. Engine Braking - when in "spirited riding" and need to shed 1 or 2 MPH before turn entrance. When going down a long slope, or when following traffic, or riding with other bikes; without the intention of coming to a complete stop. As well, be sure to take into consideration road conditions and type of tire, you wouldn't want to use extreme engine braking while crossing road markings, or during moderate rainfall... unless of course you know your tires are capable of handling the conditions. And as others have stated, try to match RPM's to the best of your ability. To help compress the suspension for some 1 wheel fun Brake Levers - when in a "residential area" to keep the noise down (I know I had it when people roll around my house with high RPM's), when I intend to stop, when in an area with a large quantity of other motorists (we know how dangerous they can be), likewise for areas with a lot of children. Never hurts to be safe! And like Engine Braking, be sure to take into consideration road conditions and type of tire for the moment.To help control the 1 wheel fun mentioned above As far as damage/wear is concerned, if the bikes weren't intended to perform as they do, they would have come equipped with some type of a slipper clutch. Hope some of the above information helped. Ride Safe. | ||
| Slickster |
Thanks again Group. As expected the information answered the question and more. Brineusaf Hoping your bike is back in prime condition and you are able to use it after the ATM Stop. Slick | ||
| Brineusaf |
Wayne the bike is at the house, and regardless of the missing frame puck that is on order, I put a good 200-400 miles on it this past weekend getting familiar with her again. On a different note... I don't park in parking spaces anymore, I only park on islands, sidewalks, behind barriers... damn cagers are too distracted sometimes. Ride Safe! | ||
| Hans |
Slickster, In your original question you mentioned two different situations: Downhill and long gradual braking situations. The worst thing you could do, downhill from a mountain, on a steep zig-zag road, would be: Pulling the clutch, pulling the brake before the curve and dragging the front brakes during the steep straights. It is the best way to glaze the brake pads. Downshifting and rolling down in an appropriate gear with a touch of the brakes, just before the curve, would be the best thing to do. No need to pull the clutch unless you had to shift down before the curve. Using the "engine brake" is imperative in this situation. However: The clutch hasn`t to get involved in braking. For the second situation I would say: Slow down with your wrist, shift in proper gear with blipping of the throttle,so not slipping the clutch, but with a touch of the brakes when needed. For almost all braking situations the brakes are better: Finer dosage. And of course to get the most stopping power on the front wheel. For a certain modern powerful rice rocket, the factory had even to modify the clutch to prevent blocking of the rear wheel. The skillful test riders had never problems, but the less skillful owners did block the rear very easily, while downshifting. Vintage motorcycles, with low points of gravity placed rearward, weak engines, hard, everlasting, tires, weak front brakes, which could become biting when wet, had not much stopping power. Just slowing down a little bit was already called: Engine braking. Powerful disc brakes, with finest dosage and sticky tires, is what made motorbikes lots and lots safer. Together with better suspension and frames. At an emergency stop you will simply pull the clutch: You need all your attention for the play between front and rear without the need for an interfering engine, which has its own braking characteristics when the throttle is cut off. Generally said: There is no place for "engine braking" anymore. Slowing down or keeping the speed low with help of the the engine can`t be called "braking". I am sure there are enough professionals to correct me, where I went wrong. Hans. | ||
| Brineusaf |
Hans... I can think of at least one bike with a "Slipper Clutch" with is commonly refered to by manufacturers as a "back-torque limiter"... the bike even by todays standards is somewhat outdated... a 2004 ZX10. but the less skillful owners did block the rear very easily, while downshifting I've read reports, specifically for Kawasaki racing bikes, (for formula xtreme I think) that the riders complained about "chatter" and instability when going into corner entrance. I doubt these riders are less skillfull than the testers. Slipper clutches allow for better cornering (as far as speed and stability while cornering). I'm kinda confused whether Hans is against or for slipper clutches.. regardless they are assisting in progressively lower lap times in all different classes of competition. The best suspension and tires aren't going to do you a damn bit of good if the bike is "Fishtailing" because the rear wheel locked, or if the suspension is too unstable to control. To get the true understanding of a slipper clutch try this article... http://www.sigmaperformance.com/slipperclutch.html Bottom line, there is a reason they have been developed, but I have the sneaking suspicion that a slipper clutch isn't needed for your "canyon running"... or pothole weaving (I'm from Erie, I know how bad Ohio is....) | ||
| Hans |
Brineusaf, The first Suzukis 1000TL came from the factory with a back torque limiter or slippery clutch which was insufficient: It had to be modified to please inexperienced riders. I mentioned the contraption to make clear that using clutch (and engine) for braking actions is not a good idea: Bad dosage. The contraption itself is of course a excellent safety feature, specially for high power, high RPM, high compression, racy engines. Hans |
