| Author | Message | ||
     Anonymous |
Crevier did not have a slipper clutch at VIR, though McWilliams ran a prototype slipper that worked well at Laguna. It's possible to get a production XBRR down to the weight limit, but it does take some whittling. Adding a second caliper and disc is a move in the wrong direction in that regard. | ||
| Court |
>>>>Crevier did not have a slipper clutch at VIR Oooops. I stand ingested.  | ||
| Diablobrian |
Trojan, the unlimited modification rule that Buell took advantage of does not apply to the IL4 bikes in the current rules structure. That could change of course, but I doubt it if they want to keep the class competitive with different motor configurations. | ||
| Whodom |
Crevier did not have a slipper clutch at VIR, though McWilliams ran a prototype slipper that worked well at Laguna. It's possible to get a production XBRR down to the weight limit, but it does take some whittling. Adding a second caliper and disc is a move in the wrong direction in that regard. Very interesting (as most Anony posts in the racing forum have been). I believe it was also posted after Laguna that there were additional changes in the works for Jeremy McWilliam's bike prior to the next race. Based on this, we still haven't seen an XBRR race with all the known fixes/upgrades installed. No doubt they are continuing to learn things about improving the bike and its setup at every race. I'll bet McWilliams will impress us all at Road Atlanta. | ||
| Jimidan |
M1Combat sez: "The new Japanese bikes are evolutionary. They don't revolutionize the industry every two years Jimi..." Of course they are evolutionary, but in racing they kinda do revolutionize the industry every time a new model comes out and trumps the rest...for a while. Check out the R6 this year. Check out the Gixxers in Superbike for that last couple of years. Check out the Honda F4i in years past. The new models that the Jap Daddies bring out are significantly different bikes than the old models, resulting in domination until one of the others catches up. I don't think Buell has enough money to play that game. Combat man cont.: "I'm not saying that Buell does either, but they are in the game with a brand new bike. It needs development. I have a feeling that if it needs a major change then we'll see it if Buell can afford it." We'll see. Combat sez: "The fact is that Buell designed this bike to compete well at the top privateer levels. The teams that are running it in the AMA are kinda going above and beyond (or at least that's how I see it)." Then it is "Mission Accomplished"...all we need to do is make the announcement. Lessee, we can have Erik don a fancy set of leathers and ride into Road Atlanta before the next race on an XBRR, with a portable mike hooked up to the PA, and park it under a like banner on the pedestrian bridge. Or maybe we could do it on the deck of an aircraft carrier...  Combat cont.: "They're doing development work that'll trickle into the production RR's..." I thought that there were only going to be 50 bikes made...what "production" RR's? Combat cont.: "Do you REALLY expect any new bike to be in contention for a win in it's first year at that level?" See the Yammy Haul comment above. I never expected the RR to do it though. Combat cont.: "One can hope for sure but I'm not entirely sure that's realistic... It sounds to me like you hoped for/expected a win at Daytona and were disappointed... That's on you." Hey, don't blame it on me, but of course, I would have loved to have been surprised. I was disappointed after McWilliams pulled out at Daytona, as I have never liked "pulling out" myself...and the feeling felt about the same.  Weren't you? Combat cont.: "Buell is doing very well IMO. They make meaningful progress pretty much every step of the way. They beat more than half the field yes? They must be doing more things right than wrong at the least..." I think so too. Mission Accomplished! Combat cont.: "It doesn't have to be in the engine. I'm sure there's some to lose there but that can cost reliability. There are engine mounts, swingarm, oil lines, triple clamps, wheels, the frame (although that seems exceedingly light already), fasteners, There's got to be a tach that's lighter than the X1 tach , the intake system, axles (are they already ti?)... I'm sure there's places to shave here and there but yeah... the engine is probably heavy compared to the competition. I'm pretty sure the rolling chassis is lighter though." The bike is supposed to cost $31,000. The ti parts are part of what makes the factory competition cost so much. I am sure that the RR engine is heavy compared to a 600...but I was hoping the additional torque would compensate. My question was can 25 lbs be pared from the RR? jd | ||
| Jimidan |
Any word on what XBRR's will be at Road Atlanta? jd | ||
| M1combat |
Jap Daddies? With caps? Ti axles aren't that expensive Jimi. I don't know if 25lbs can be taken off the RR. I was making the point (and I know that you saw this but you gotta just poke and prod) that there are places where it can probably happen. I don't own one and I don't have the skill required to do it myself, but I'd bet there are places. You just poke and prod for the sake of poking and prodding. Why? WRT "production" RR's (you put that in quotes BTW... Not me) I meant the ones that are "produced". You're either lame or your prodding for no good reason... "Of course they are evolutionary, but in racing they kinda do revolutionize the industry every time a new model comes out and trumps the rest...for a while." No they don't... They just make the same box a little better and everyone else needs to find ways to keep up. That's not revolutionary. Revolutionary is pneumatic valve springs, desmo valve trains, monoshocks, fuel in the frame, hanging off, radial tires, jet engines... They just play around with construction and geometry a little. They optimize. Every once in a while one manufacturer optimizes further than the others did. They don't come out with stuff that's completely new/better every couple years. If you believe they do then you're buying into the Japanese marketing hype. For the record... No, I don't believe the RR engine is revolutionary either. I do believe the XB chassis is revolutionary. The integrated package has a couple drawbacks, but it has advantages as well. "Hey, don't blame it on me," You apparently don't read so good. I wasn't blaming anything on you... I was saying that if YOU were disappointed, then that is on YOU. I was glad that Buell finally showed up, but disappointed than none finished. It didn't sour my taste for the XB's though. I still believe that they'll get there and do well. They need development. "We'll see. " Yeah... That's what I said. | ||
| Davegess |
Well at least Buell is avoiding doing the Ducati thing that so many have said they should do. QUITING! | ||
| Blake |
"Steve Crevier started in 13th and ended up finishing in 11th. The two bikes that started in front of him DNFed, so who did he pass? Them as they coasted to a stop? Who was he "battling" with? He was almost 20 seconds behind the bike in front of him." Darn unreliable Japan Inc machines. Who was he battling with? Maybe the three guys immediately behind him?  | ||
| Blake |
Ben Bostrom on a Buell next year? ![: ]](http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/clipart/proud.gif) | ||
| Blake |
Matt, I understand that the AMA FX rules for IL4 600cc machines are VERY similar to the FIM Supersport rules. The AMA FX rules just allow additional configurations of engines to race in the class. Way to go AMA Pro Racing! Finally! According to the AMA FX rules, only air-cooled pushrod twin-cylinder machines are allowed "unlimited" engine modification. So there is no opening of any door for the other manufacturers, unless of course they decide to field an air-cooled pushrod twin cylinder machine. Not sure if that particular rule applies to the BMW twins or not. | ||
| Slaughter |
BMW and Guzzi (specifically MGS01) airheads are still "legally" pushrod motors. I spent nearly an hour in a couple stops talking to Jean Marc Arechiga at the Guzzi booth last year (he's also a WSMC racer) - and the thinking was that the Guzzi meets all FX criteria. The rocker arm DOES NOT come in contact with the cam... it's technically a pushrod motor. Production based, unlimited mods... yadda yadda yadda. Ditto BMW | ||
| Davegess |
That Guzzi motor could make some serious rpm and thus serious hp with that cam mounted very high in the block and very short push rods. They could make a very serious FX bike. This could be a lot of fun if everyone eligable jumps in. | ||
| Blake |
The Beemers have four valves though, don't they? | ||
| M2nc |
I think new rules have open the door for Motos and BMW to enter, plus the bad to the bone Daytona 675. In true street form, the 675 kicks the top four 600s butt and in the latest Cycle World comparison almost match the ZX10R's lap times. As far as what bikes did Crevier pass, the two that DNF when they were still running because I never noticed them drop out. Also the R6 that end up in 12th actually passed Crevier and then Crevier passed him back. He ran up on the R6 at the end of the front straight and they raced side by side out of turn one where Crevier pulled ahead and got into turn two first. Crevier and the 12th & 13th place bikes raced the entire 17 laps and he was finally able to pull a lead in the final laps. To say that they faded more than he did. | ||
| Jimidan |
M1 says: "Jap Daddies? With caps?" You can put nice little caps on them if you want, but with hair that nice, why bother. It is just derogatory slang man...I learned it on here.  It plays well with the Buy Americun guys. I really have the highest respect for the wiley Japanese. I guess a case could be made that they really did win the war...it just took another 50 years for US to realize it. M1cont.: "Ti axles aren't that expensive Jimi. I don't know if 25lbs can be taken off the RR. I was making the point (and I know that you saw this but you gotta just poke and prod) that there are places where it can probably happen. I don't own one and I don't have the skill required to do it myself, but I'd bet there are places." There are places, but they aren't cheap. I don't know what kinda ti parts are already on the McWilliams Buell. I figured that they may have done the fastener route already, but only Anony knows fer'sure. I wasn't asking the question rhetorically though, I can "bet" (read: guess) too. I was wondering if anybody KNEW. Plus, I thought that the RR had already been made light enough to be competitive, but now I am reading that it needs to go on a crash diet...no pun intended. M1cont.: "You just poke and prod for the sake of poking and prodding. Why?" The same reason you do...entertainment value. Why are we even on here if not for that? If I was looking for something technical, I'd be over in another section. M1cont.: "WRT "production" RR's (you put that in quotes BTW... Not me) I meant the ones that are "produced". You're either lame or your prodding for no good reason..." I put it in quotes because you said it, not me. Basic rules of the language...its called punctuation. You and I both know what the definition of a "production motorcycle" is, and it ain't the RR. See, I can be that way too. BTW, I am limping a bit these days...old football injury. How'd you know?  M1cont.: "Of course they are evolutionary, but in racing they kinda do revolutionize the industry every time a new model comes out and trumps the rest...for a while." No they don't... They just make the same box a little better and everyone else needs to find ways to keep up. That's not revolutionary. Revolutionary is pneumatic valve springs, desmo valve trains, monoshocks, fuel in the frame, hanging off, radial tires, jet engines... They just play around with construction and geometry a little. They optimize. Every once in a while one manufacturer optimizes further than the others did. They don't come out with stuff that's completely new/better every couple years. If you believe they do then you're buying into the Japanese marketing hype. For the record... No, I don't believe the RR engine is revolutionary either. I do believe the XB chassis is revolutionary. The integrated package has a couple drawbacks, but it has advantages as well. True. By your definition of revolutionary I agree completely. M1cont.: "Hey, don't blame it on me," You apparently don't read so good. I wasn't blaming anything on you... I was saying that if YOU were disappointed, then that is on YOU." I was kinda saying that tongue in cheek, sorry I didn't put the little smiley face on it for you. Sorry. jd | ||
| Jimidan |
Daveguess sez: "Well at least Buell is avoiding doing the Ducati thing that so many have said they should do. QUITING!" Pretty funny Dave! But really I think Ducati is just trying to make a point, and I can't say that I blame them. Without Ducati, AMA Superbike is a lot less interesting for a lot of folks. AMA needs Ducati, and the rules are not fair...so why shouldn't they quit. They will be back when the AMA sees the light. For the record, I said that Buell should use the Ducati model for obtaining sponsors...don't you guys agree? | ||
| Jimidan |
Blake sez: ""Steve Crevier started in 13th and ended up finishing in 11th. The two bikes that started in front of him DNFed, so who did he pass? Them as they coasted to a stop? Who was he "battling" with? He was almost 20 seconds behind the bike in front of him." Darn unreliable Japan Inc machines. Who was he battling with? Maybe the three guys immediately behind him?" After getting to finally watch the race...actually, watch and rewatch the streamers (I love DVRs), I see what you mean. It would have been nice if SPEEd had cut to that battle (11, 12,13th) at least once. It must have been a dandy! The Buells were not even mentioned this time...not even Freddie's tired rhetoric about how controversial they were at Daytona. I guess that was a blessing. What happened to Hale? He was up with Steve in the first few laps and then went back suddenly. BTW, for all of those guys who have emailed me personally about my Dad and his quad by-pass surgery, thanks a million. You can always count on the Buell community for support in the time of need. Dad is doing fine and will be coming home Thursday. jd | ||
| Jimidan |
Blake sez: "Ben Bostrom on a Buell next year?" Wouldn't that be a hoot, but I too would rather have one of the young, dumb, full o'jizz guys rather than a racer who has passed his peak. Ben is a nice guy and all, but the trend is for the young studs for a reason. jimi | ||
| M1combat |
Good to hear your Dad will be alright . I give credit where it's due Jimi. Maybe you don't intend to do it but it seems to me that every time something even remotely positive happens to Buell you start in with the "But what about" stuff... It's old. If you want to speak your mind... I say go for it. I'm all for freedom of speech I assure you, but don't tear down a perfectly good thread about Buell's successes with your nay saying. The quote goes... "You must first finish to finish first". That means that Buell is on their way. That's a good thing. | ||
| Mutation_racer |
it all takes time , we raced our RR in A CCS middlewieght race last weekend and finished 8TH . and believe me were not done yet, remember that ROME took a long time to build. and let me tell you all from a guy who is not a pro. THAT IS THE BADDEST BIKE I HAVE EVERY RIDDEN, and i cant wait to race it again | ||
| Jlnance |
It would have been nice if SPEEd had cut to that battle (11, 12,13th) at least once. Aint it the truth. Thats one huge difference between watching the race on TV and being there in person. If you're there, and you care about a particular racer, it's fun to follow them no matter where they are in the pack. They will always be in a battle for some spot, and it's entertaining no matter where it is. If you're watching on TV you're going to see the first 3 bikes most of the time. Which is all well and good if you happen to really like one of those riders. But if you don't it's not all that fun to see. | ||
| Jimidan |
Mutant Man says: "it all takes time , we raced our RR in A CCS middlewieght race last weekend and finished 8TH . and believe me were not done yet, remember that ROME took a long time to build. and let me tell you all from a guy who is not a pro. THAT IS THE BADDEST BIKE I HAVE EVERY RIDDEN, and i cant wait to race it again" My Grand Paw used to tell me, "Believe only half of what you see and nothing of what you hear." I really want to believe you, but I am just going to have to ride it myself to know for sure  . Any chance of that happening? Didn't think so! Hey, Nate Kern let me ride his BMW... I want an RR...I'd turn it back into a street bike. Surely one will turn up on ebay again, slightly used. jimidan | ||
| Mutation_racer |
JIM. Nate pits next to us and let me tell you he was all over it. Plus every one that was in to bikes stopped by to check it out as well. | ||
| Jimidan |
M1Combat sez: "Good to hear your Dad will be alright." Thank you very much. M1cont.: "I give credit where it's due Jimi. Maybe you don't intend to do it but it seems to me that every time something even remotely positive happens to Buell you start in with the "But what about" stuff... It's old." I can assure you that I have intended to examine issues from all angles...it is part of who I am. I was a trained criminal investigator in Kentucky's Department for Environmental Protection. The job required me to match wits with some of the best lawyers and engineers in the World. I no longer have that kind of stimulation, but I find that offering my analysis and opinion on these boards satisfies some of that need...plus, it is just a lot of fun. It also keeps my brain from going to mush. I assume that there are many others on here who are doing the same thing. Can you recall seeing the "Question Authority!" bumper sticker? That has been my philosophy from very early on. Questioning the status quo (critical analysis) is very basis of the scientific method...designing a better mousetrap, as it were. If the World operated without those who did this, we would all still be riding horses. That is why the high courts have dissenting opinions. The key word here is opinion, and that is really all we are dealing with here, mixed in with a stray fact or three. Actually, I find your criticism of some my more antagonistic posts to be a bit perplexing...jeez, you have "Combat" in your signature. Might I suggest that you engage in some introspection as to why you seem to feel that this is such a bad thing, and in such a negative light. These boards were designed for this kind of discourse, and have the rules of engagement. I try to stay within those rules as it is much more entertaining that way, plus it is just the right thing to do. I might add that I have no problem playing devil's advocate on some of these topics, simply because it brings out the best in folks to discuss things in which they have passion. It seems that you consider those with dissenting (from your own perspective) opinions as being less than patriotic (to the brand). I consider myself one of Buell's biggest fans, but that too is a topic for debate. Think of how booorrring it would be if the board was just for the cheerleaders (of which I am a very committed one of those too). My Buell fanaticism seems to compare favorably to most anyone's on here...except for the high priests (Court's, Blake's and a handfull of others). I spend a lot of my money and time with all things Buell, for a reason, which is really the ultimate test, isn't it? Besides, how many times can you read just "Go Buell" without it getting "old". Actually, I find that your post are very well written and thought out, even though I may disagree with part of what you say. I would even call them, er ah, stimulating. I look forward to sparring with you in the future. What more can any conscious entity ask for? jimidan | ||
| Jimidan |
Mutant man, I would love to see Nate literally get all over it out on the track. He told me that he offered his services to Henry Duga before he started riding the Beemers, and was turned down. Henry said he would now love to have Nate on our team. Me too. Maybe someday, but BMW treats him very well. jimidan | ||
| M1combat |
"What more can any conscious entity ask for? " Nothing really . I don't have much trouble with what you say... Only where you say it. When we get a race report that says "Woot, we got a top ten." you tend to say something like... "So... We got beat by eight bikes...". That gets just as old as "Go Buell". "Go Buell" has a place and "We got beat by eight bikes." has a place. | ||
| Mutation_racer |
Jimi, nate told me that he rode hal's bike once before , i can't remember what track it was but he said he was 8second faster then on his owen bike not to bad | ||
| Blublak |
A couple of notes on the FX race from one that was there.. And spent a little time with the riders before and after.. Everything is not how it is always perceived. Hale was having a gremlin visit him that weekend. Every time they thought they'd found the little bugger, it had only moved a little out of the way and was back to cause problems. Finally, Mike decided to finish the race, despite the fact that the bike was not behaving correctly. Crevier - also had a problem or three.. And I'll talk about both of the riders when I update the website (which should be tonight). If you were in there, you would have seen some really great riding by all concerned. The fact of the matter is, that even when NOT running properly.. And XBRR is a wonderful bit of kit for the track. However, it's still a temperamental beast and when something is out of whack.. well.. Riders like Hale and Crevier still will do their best and work around it as much as possible.. They both finished. Which is more then can be said for all the other race machines there that day. I know even with a perfect XBRR I'd be hard pressed to finish top 20 in an AMA race. So I gotta hand it to both of them for doing what they do so well.. Besides, both of them are really nice guys and great to just hang out with and chat about.. well.. Anything. I will admit that I spent more time at the Deely pit then at the Classic set up.. Jose had the time in at Hales pit, while I guess I covered Steve's' more.. So.. I'll let Jose comment in more detail on the Blue Bike.. | ||
| Jimidan |
M1 sez: "I don't have much trouble with what you say... Only where you say it. When we get a race report that says "Woot, we got a top ten." you tend to say something like... "So... We got beat by eight bikes...". That gets just as old as "Go Buell". "Go Buell" has a place and "We got beat by eight bikes." has a place." I will give you credit for admitting that there is a place for dissension on this site. I know your example is oversimplified for expediencies' sake, but it does not really represent my view accurately. A more realistic example would be, "Woot, we got a top ten." To which I say, "We got beat by 8 bikes that have significant (or complete) factory sponsorship, and some of the best racers in the world, while we don't even have enough money to make it to half of the races...and we're trying to compete with these guys?" My point has always been that if we are going to play with the big boys on the national stage, let's fund it so that we can truly be competitive, as advertised. Playing by the Hokey Pokey rules (You put your right foot in, you put your right foot out...) when the competition is fully committed may be doing more harm than good in the court of public perception. I have always had the best interest of the Buell brand at heart. The hype upon the XBRR's public announcement indicated that Buell was "committed like never before to helping privateers and dealer teams succeed." Erik went further with, "As we were testing at Daytona, it really became clear to us that now is the time to take back the Daytona 200 and make it a truly American race by putting a true American motorcycle in a position to be competitive." When asked about if the lap times in testing fast enough to be competitive, he responded, "We wouldn't be doing this if we weren't...we're going to be fine." He also said, "Buell was founded in 1983 to provide superior bikes for privateers to win the Daytona 200." Those were truly lofty goals that have not come close to fruition (with the best times usually 3-4 seconds slower than the top 7), and I am afraid that the public's perception of the brand, which is on somewhat shaky ground already, will be irreparably tarnished. The affect of this on sales is anybodies' guess, but it can't help much. My perception of the brand has not been affected by this year's racing results, but I am a dyed in the wool supporter. We are beating up on the other privateer teams and that is cool, but if the intent was as advertised, we aren't making the grade...yet. Three to four seconds a lap is an eternity in FX racing. jimidan jd (Message edited by jimidan on August 24, 2006) |
