| Author | Message | ||
     Xb9 |
To an extent money cannot buy the things learned from actual racing experience. IE, you can't just throw money at it and the perfect combination of engine tuning/wheels/brakes/suspension/geometry/tires magically appears for every track. It is learned, and much through trial and hopefully not too much error. This bike is barely 6 months old, give it and the teams time to develop it. Patience. | ||
| Telewoodski |
I just saw the FX race last night, and I was happy as sh!t to see an American motorcycle in the race. I was in Laguna and was happy as shi!t again to see an American motorcycle manufacturer getting in the MotoGP arena. I love my Buell, but I'm so much more excited about seeing America get in the ring with a couple of enterprising and intelligent guys who share the same idea. America can produce a quality product, one that can compete. They haven't pulled off any big wins in a series yet, but I'm just happy to see a couple of American motorcycle manufacturers taking on the Japanese and Italians at a game they have dominated for too long. | ||
| Ceejay |
the anouncers had some good things to say, due to the showing that the buells put up. from what I've heard from folks that have been on that track, mid-ohio, it's not the easiest place to pass. Now if they can get a better qual start, they could break into the cameras more...thus get a bigger sponsorship, thus get a little more funding, etc. | ||
| Blake |
What XB9 Said!  | ||
| Blake |
Does anyone remember how Mike Cicotto took his Hal's Pro-Thunder Buell to within one point of winning the AMA Pro-Thunder championship against former World Superbike racer Kirk McCarthy on his Ducati? I recall that Kirk had some very respectful things to say about the performance of Mike's Pro-Thunder Buell. Hal's did a wonderful job that year. When they and Warr's are up to running another full season effort, this time with the XBRR, expect more good things. Did everyone forget the win at Daytona by Rico Penzkofer over the Ducati 999R Superbike entry in the CCS race? Some folks seem to focus more on the negative. Sheesh. Two top tens in a row and from two poor grid/qualifying positions. What's next on the FX schedule for Buell racers I wonder? | ||
| Whodom |
Speaking of Mike Cicotto, has it been confirmed definitely that he will no longer ride a Buell in FX? When Court was trying to drum up interest in Daytona, I noted that Buell's website says Mike is originally from Charleston, SC (near me). I wrote the local paper (Charleston Post & Courier) sports editor with the info and suggested they should do an article on the new XBRR and Mike's involvement (local boy makes good and all that). I never heard or saw a word out of them.  (Message edited by whodom on August 09, 2006) | ||
| M1combat |
More good stuff at least  . | ||
| Anonymous |
Jimidan, This is Buell's best possible effort in FX, and we are trying as hard for our size as Ducati is. The majority of Ducati's race budget comes from outside sponsorship, and we at Buell have not earned this level of sponsorship. This is in no way an H-D effort, so should not be considered that way. It is not a couple of US manufacturers stepping into the ring, it is one. Buell. Blake, I too often cannot believe how negative so many are towards us, but I have to attribute it to the lack of knowledge of how small we are and how tiny our budget is. Anyhow, negative comments haven't stopped us yet, nor will they. | ||
| Newm2rider |
All I can say is Bring on a new budget and bring on Buell, Laguna Seca showed me how Great Buell is going to be, For those who are negative, They are just not on board with something new, Buells rule! 97 M2 cyclone, | ||
| Jimidan |
What XB9 said: "This bike is barely 6 months old, give it and the teams time to develop it. Patience." Hey, all I have is patience, as I am nothing more than a fan. And an observer. The only thing I have really been critical about is the appearance of on-again/off-again funding of this project (it just looks bad to the public, and has to hurt sales). I find it somewhat amusing how my questions, observations and comments are viewed as commensurate with the really "negative" posters...jeez. It is apparent that if a racing post on here isn't cheerleading, then it is deemed a "vicious attack". Nothing could be further from the truth...there is a LOT of gray in these comments. XB9, I must be confused though about the assertions (yours and others) made that the XBRR (a lightly modified XB with a better engine) is brand new. Selective memory? This bike is not 6 months old...the name is. Remember, that kind of talk is what started all of the controversy that Fast Freddie keeps bringing up during the race when ever the camera starts following "the Buell". Someone get this guy some new talking points! Either the XBRR is a modified XB12 or it is a new bike (which would have made it illegal in FX)...you can't have it both ways. The XB racing platform has been in development since 2002 with Mike Cicotto, and later Eric Wood's, Barney and others on board. Speaking of Mike Cicotto (Hal's) and Michael Barnes (Rich Cronwrath's Innovative Technologies), they started riding the XB9R with a big engine in the first couple of years of FX. I saw Mike Cicotto take fourth place in the VIR FX race in 2004 on what is essentially was Hal's version of an XBRR. They were almost always in the top ten and Cicotto placed a "very respectable 15th" for the championship points, despite missing the first two races. Ah, how soon we forget our fallen heroes!  Anony sez: "...and we are trying as hard for our size as Ducati is." I am not in the position to refute your assertion at this time, but I will do some checking about how much of a percentage of its budget Ducati spends on racing...it has got to be on the net somewhere. What do you mean by size? Number of bikes sold? Profits? What percentage (or amount) does Buell spend on racing? Read my comment again: "I am not saying that the XBRR team isn't trying hard...far from it. They just do not have the corporate support to really get the job done. You can't run a winning race team at the FX level on a "shoe string", and we all know it." Anony cont.: "This is in no way an H-D effort, so should not be considered that way." I don't think it is a HD effort either (the VR1000 was a HD effort, and look how that worked out). If you look at the XBRR factory team's sponsors though, it sure looks like that is where the money is coming from. With all of the uncertainties of funding of this racing program, it smells of HD too. I remember in 2005, when a first quarter 17% stock loss scared the HD brass into abruptly cutting the funding for the two FX teams right before the Daytona 200, leaving Hals and Innovative Tech's Cronwrath to twist on their ropes in the wind...losing large sums of their own development money. This was after the Cycle World cover of the Hal's bike beggin' the question "Is this Erik Buell's Daytona 200 Winner", or sumsuchstuff. That is what HD racing is all about, and the fans should want no part of it. Jimidan One of Buell's Biggest Fans (Message edited by jimidan on August 10, 2006) | ||
| Davegess |
Anony- good post. I certainly know that the naysayers do not keep Erik from trying. I also know how his spirit infuses everyone at Buell. I think some people are frustrated because they one they think H-D has enormous buckets of money being used to buy more chrome and they can't understand why H-D does not just give some of this money to Buell. (some people are just negative but I won't waste time on them) First off folks need to understand that for Buell to survive and flourish they need to make on their own, without H-D giving them cash. If H-D give it they can take it away. If Buell makes it by selling bikes and turning a profit they can't take it away. Secone folks need to understand that H-D is not as wealthy as we think it is. Very profitable based on perent of total sales but not very big in the total scheme of things They are certainly bigger than Duacti BUT as was stated above, Ducati, because of 40 years racing gets sponsers to pay the freight. Compared to Honda H-D is tiny. The bike division is a small part of and automobile and engine company and still sells a MILLION units a year. H-D does a quarter of that. And because of 50 years on international racing they get sponsers to pick up a big chunk of the tab. Buell will get there but to expect them to get there in a year is a bit over the top. This FIRST year racing has been very good. I know that folks on Buell Drive are frustrted as hell that they are not doing better BUT I say they are doing GREAT AND ARE GOING TO DO BETTER. Let's cheer them on not drag them down | ||
| 1313 |
M2nc's post made me think of this pic that I've been waiting to use...  GO BUELL!!!!!!!!!!!!! 1313 | ||
| Anonymous |
H-D is bigger than Ducati, Dave, but H-D IS NOT FUNDING THIS PROGRAM! So compare Buell to Ducati, first removing the outside sponsorship, and you will find that we are indeed trying and investing as hard as we can. If we had the money to field a full factory effort all year, we would. But we don't. Ducati supposedly has $25 million in outside sponsorship money this year, guys. I'm not saying their success over the past 20 years hasn't earned it for them, I am just saying that we don't have it yet. If we got $25 million in outside sponsorship, you can bet your butt we'd be MotoGP racing and much more! Maybe some day, but not for a while. Give little Buell a chance to get there. We've just started. | ||
| Xb9 |
"XB9, I must be confused though about the assertions (yours and others) made that the XBRR (a lightly modified XB with a better engine) is brand new. Selective memory? This bike is not 6 months old...the name is." You're correct, the bike is not totally new. I should have phrased my statement differently: "The new XBRR EFFORTS are barely 6 months old, give it and the teams time to develop it." Sound better? Thanks for letting me clarify the real point I was trying to make. Other than Hal's and Rich Conrath's experience, as far as I know the rest are pretty "new" efforts. | ||
| Jlnance |
Anonymous says: and we at Buell have not earned this level of sponsorship. I'm not saying [Ducatti's] success over the past 20 years hasn't earned it for them Contrast the class demonstrated in these statements with the pissing, moaning, and whining by Honda about Buell. | ||
| Jimidan |
Anony sez: "H-D is bigger than Ducati, Dave, but H-D IS NOT FUNDING THIS PROGRAM! So compare Buell to Ducati, first removing the outside sponsorship, and you will find that we are indeed trying and investing as hard as we can. If we had the money to field a full factory effort all year, we would. But we don't. Ducati supposedly has $25 million in outside sponsorship money this year, guys. I'm not saying their success over the past 20 years hasn't earned it for them, I am just saying that we don't have it yet. If we got $25 million in outside sponsorship, you can bet your butt we'd be MotoGP racing and much more! Maybe some day, but not for a while. Give little Buell a chance to get there. We've just started." It looks like some of the hardest work to be done is getting the sponsors for the FX effort. It is hard to imagine that there are not more American companies willing to sponsor and American bike in this competition. Shucks, American companies are sponsoring Japanese and Italian bikes...why not Buells? It is down-right Un-American. I know Ford was a sponsor with the VR1000, but Ford is barely able to keep its head above water now...and they just recalled ALL of the cars they made last year. I wonder what measures are being taken to secure sponsors and who is heading up this effort? It is going to take more than just the dealerships to get the kind of money it takes to race competitively at this level. $25 million is not enough money to race in MotoGP. Even then, you have to have a bike to race in MotoGP...and although the XBRR is good, it ain't that good...but I like the way you're thinkin'.  jimidan | ||
| Davegess |
<it> You have that right. Top people are working on it. The kind of money needed is not easy to find and the state of the economy plays into it as does the fact that in the US bike racing is a very marginal sport. | ||
| Ceejay |
excerpts from previous posts, why can't buell get more qaulifying laps-or is it just that the buells are pulling thier best times earlier in thier slot??? if they get higher on the grid from what I've seen there will definitely be a better chance of finishing better, or at least running the better part of the race in the cameras, and despite what anyone might think, there aren't a whole lot of bigger money sponsors out there who will give money if they are not going to get a lot of exposure, eg. more TV time... | ||
| M1combat |
That's pretty much what it's all about once you get into big dollar sponsorship... There are a few exceptions... One would be if you got a playboy sponsorship (they sponsor DP (That's daytona prototypes...)) so they MIGHT look at another form of racing. Other sponsors would love to be seen placed near playboy... Maybe "Axe", Bath And Body Works, Great Clips, AirWalk shoes... Go through a Playboy Magazine and see who advertises there. Talk to PlayBoy and give them an EXCELLENT deal, but then approach the other satelite sponsors with the knowledge that they'll be placed next to the PlayBoy Bunny on your fairing. If PlayBoy won't do it grab a different angle and try again. It's not an easy job from what I hear. It's never easy to say "Hey, gimme yer money" if you don't have a gun . | ||
| Court |
>>>>It's never easy to say "Hey, gimme yer money" if you don't have a gun Actually there are folks who do this. Before this program ever started and totally independent of it, with no connection to instant Buell Racing effort, I met with a firm in Denver who had a rep in New York City. That's ALL his firm does. Don't think for one minute that any of those NASCAR drivers are the ones hustling up those sponsorship deals. T'aint so. | ||
| M1combat |
Of course not . I was just pointing out that getting money from people isn't easy . | ||
| Anonymous |
Jimidan, The dealerships did not raise the sponsorship money they had, Buell did the work, and got it distributed from the sponsors to them. Unfortunately it was a very small amount, and it was only obtained with the PAID efforts of two top name fund raisers in motorcycle industry. I was personally incredibly shocked that we could not raise more. Didn't expect $25 million, but thought we could raise $500,000. No such luck, not even by adding togeether the most we could get from 5 sponsors and passing it on to the dealer teams. | ||
| Court |
My bet is that the progress this year, coupled with the attention BUELL RACING is getting (what other bike has dedicated groups of non-owners monitoring every word uttered) will make the fund raising easier in the future. | ||
| Norcal_blast |
>>>Ducati spends far more of its earnings on racing, per capita, than probably any other manufacturer...much less Buell which is "operating on a shoe string". Ducati is ALL about racing, as it is in their blood. The have two full-on factory bikes in MotoGP, several bikes in World SBK, and a couple in AMA Superbike. That is a lot for a company the size of Ducati<<< Dropping out of lurk mode to respond to this... Over 90% of the Ducati Corse budget comes from sponsors like Marlboro and Xerox and Ducati works hard to create value for their sponsors Last week Bayliss was wearing a Superman cape as part of a promo with a movie company, before Laguna both Capirossi and Gibernau were down in Hollywood doing some marketing tie-in. Race weekend they had Randy Mamola giving rides to celebrities on the two seat MotoGP bike. All these events are designed to create media attention and visibility for both the Ducati brand and their sponsors. My point here is that Ducatis' sponsorship success doesn't just happen... they are very good at the business of marketing. | ||
| Court |
>>>>they are very good at the business of marketing. Thank you Lucy. She's the one who interviewed me when Ducati wanted to hire me. It was a great lunch, getting to go to Fresco and all....but...can you see me . . . honestly....working for Ducati? I did get a nice collection of autographed Italian books and they still invited me to give the speech on the "History of Ducati" at the opening of the flagship store and were kind enough to bring in a super-mon and loan me the use of the store for a Buell gathering...no kidding....it happened right here in New York City. Problem is . . . where Ducati USA is....well, the building's vacant. Where the "store to end all stores" was. . . a cheap deli on 11th Avenue. Lucy...long gone. Fresco...still an icon. Ducati is excellent at racing, but man how'd you like to ride that corporate roller coaster? I think not. | ||
| Davegess |
David Oglivy is one of the finest advertising minds ever. Ducati can go racing, no question about that, if they could make money half as well my $300 of IPO stock would be worth $3000 not $150  | ||
| Court |
Right you are. Funny how much of this stuff, from behind the scenes, gets missed. The only reason your ADR (American Deposit Receipt ...you can't REALLY buy stock traded on a foreign exchange...long story) is worth anything is because of Burger King. I love this stuff....kinda like Paul Harvey's the rest of the story. If it were'n't for Burger King, Ducati might (once again) be history. | ||
| Jimidan |
...and the rest of the stor-ree... In spite of being on the brink of bankruptcy and while riding a corporate roller coaster towards extinction that Court wouldn't ride with a 10 foot pole, Ducati still manages to pull in enough advertising budget (even with All-American Burger Snat and Xerox reportedly leading the way) to run two bikes in MotoGP, 3 full-on factory teams with 8 riders (Kurtis Roberts is even riding one now!) and 5 'wild card' teams with 5 riders in SBK, including the team leading the SBK Rider Championship (Bayless) and the SBK Manufacturer's Championship (Ducati), and a full on factory team with two bikes in AMA Superbike. Simply amazing! I can say it again...Buell should model its racing sponsorship program after Ducati! I would like to see Buell build a bike that would be competitive with the 999 too, but that is another issue. I was curious about how many World SBK teams Ducati has and here is a list off of the official SBK site: TEAM....................RIDERS Sterilgarda-Berik.......Xaus, Marco Team Pedercini..........Szkopek, Lucio, Neukirchner, Roberts Ducati Xerox............Bayless, Lanzi (wild card teams) Honda BKR...............Del Armor Coronas Suzuki Motorrad..Fuetes D'Antin MotoGP...........Al Nairni PN Corse.................Alfonsi D.F.X.Treme..............Nannelli All of this from a company so small in country shaped like a boot that is about the size of California. We got some work to do. Jimidan Buell Head Cheerleader (Message edited by jimidan on August 12, 2006) | ||
| Court |
>>>In spite of being on the brink of bankruptcy and while riding a corporate roller coaster towards extinction that Court wouldn't ride with a 10 foot pole That's not ENTIRELY true. . . I may be the only Badwebber to have ever graced the cover of a motorcycle magazine on a Ducati. Besides, I keep a couple very good friends in Italy and don't want you to mess up my intel. Ducati, and you're right about them being a great model, is all about passion. | ||
| Anonymous |
Jimidan, Thanks for your and Court's comments about following the Ducati model. The passion part we have had since the RW-750, and in fact were using that as a company slogan before they did. (Court, you probably even have a brochure!). How do you compare the passion of a company that moved from the appliance business into the motorcycle business in 1946 to build cheap trransportation vs. the passion of a company started from scratch to build world class GP motorcycles out of a garage? Don't forget who we are and the route we have taken. I have great respect for Ducati nand their racing successes, but will not follow their business model, nor all of their racing model. Buell should model it's racing program after Ducati in what way? a)We should go look for $25,000,000 for racing? Been there, done that, couldn't get $500,000. No surprise, we haven't won multiple championships. More work to do, time to pass. b) field MotoGP teams and multiple WSB teams? See a) c) Provide product for satellite teams to fill in the grid and have fun even if they are unlikely to win? See Deeley's, Hal's Kosko's, Warr's, etc., etc. d) Start by providing great support for privateer no money teams and get our low volume bikes homologated into national level racing like Ducati did in it's early years? Yep, we are doing that. See c), see ASRA, see... e) Start by building low productiun exotic versions of our streetbikes, which march to a different drummer? Yep we are doing that. f) Go to near bankruptcy time and again, and with help from our national government, get bailed out repeatedly? Nope, don't think our local government will do that. The point is we are doing it our way, and we are about the size Ducati was in the mid 80's. No we are not in WSB at the moment, but we are in the racing business, and we are solidly in business as a company . Give us the trust, loyalty and support that Ducati owners give their brand and we will be more successful by far at any given time period from birth date of the companies.(1983 for Buell, 19?? for Ducati). And, I promise you we won't go broke along the way, which is good for you, the owners. In the old days we were mocked for not following the Bimota model. Hmm, how many satisfied Bimota owners out there? How many Bimota championships? No one makes that comparison any more. But now it's Ducati we should follow. Nope, with all due respect we won't do that either. And I hope in another 15-20 years people will be saying "Buell oughta follow the Honda model", and any Ducati comparison will be as long gone as the Bimota one. |
