| Author | Message | ||
     Coastie |
If you have or had the Econo XB12 Drummer exhaust, I'd like to hear your opinion of it over the stock exhaust. I am thinking of the econo version because I'd like to keep the stock ECM. Dyno from the drummer site http://www.kdfab.com/drummer%20econo.htm shows less power down low, but more through the usable midrange, and the same as stock up top. | ||
| Nutsosane |
Coastie, I did the original Beta testing for the Econo Drummer. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/3842/143892.html There's ya go. If it hasn't been made entirely clear; Kevin is a first rate craftsman and has even better customer service. NUTS (Message edited by nutsosane on July 30, 2006) | ||
| Coastie |
Thanks for the link! | ||
| Nasty73z |
Honestly, for the price, I would buy a Jardine slip-on instead of the econo Drummer. It makes more power, weighs less, and I think it looks a lot better. And it will work with the stock ecm, just leave your servo plugged in. I ran mine that way for almost 6 months. This would also allow you to save up and have your stock pipe made into a regular Drummer of save or an SS. Kevin is a great guy and his pipes are all very nice craftsmanship. | ||
| Xb9ser |
I met Kevin yesterday. Twig, EU4AH and my self rode up to KD FAB so twig could get his SS drummer. we were there about 45 sec and Kevin ask if any of us had ridden a 12 and threw us the keys and told us which roads to ride! Jim took off for about 15 min he cam back and it had started to drizzle so I didn't ride it. Mike got his pipe installed and Kevin reset all three of our tps no charge!He is one heck of a great guy! I have one of 1st gen. drummers bought in march 04 he ask if I had any issues with it.NONE Idid get some Bling for mine  | ||
| Xb9ser |
By the way I got to see the Mongoose very intresting.I wont tell any details but Kevin talks about it on his threads in sponcer section. | ||
| Diablobrian |
I wouldn't try to cut a corner by keeping the stock ECM. I'd recommend saving a bit longer and either getting the ECM re-mapped via direct-link, or getting a race ECM. By opening up the exhaust your motor will breathe better and therefore run leaner. You can get by with it, but it isn't a good thing to do to the motor if you want it to last. These are air cooled motors and they run lean to begin with due to EPA regulations. I strongly recommend that you take the time to do it right, with ECM and exhaust. Kevin will tell you himself that you can "get by" with the stock ECM, but that it will run better and stronger with the race ECM, or re-mapping with direct Link. | ||
| Coastie |
It is not a funds issue, more the keep it looking stock, or be able to quickly revert back to stock until the warranty runs out issue  | ||
| Diablobrian |
The race ecm does not affect looks, and the stock ecm can be swapped back in at any time. Not even a TPS reset required, plug and play if it's been done once on a particular bike. For the Direct Link you can put a stock map back into the ECM in minutes, or faster with a laptop computer. I just don't want anyone to have their motor "lean out" on them and burn rings or valves because of a lack of input. | ||
| Luvthemtorts |
Diablo, You may want to talk to Kevin about the lean issue. I discusses this in length with him at the beginning of last week before ordering my Drummer. I expressed great concern about running lean with the stock ECM and his response was that it would run just fine and not cause an excessively lean condition. I didn't understand all the technical stuff he talked about but it sure sounded like he knew his business and had dyno'd the bikes to insure safe operating parameters. I originally thought it would run lean as well but after his explanations of what the decel popping really consists of I am a bit less concerned. | ||
| Diablobrian |
The bikes run a bit lean from the factory, If Kevin is happy with the way the bikes run with the pipe and the stock ECM that's fine, but I could have sworn he expressed concern about it before on the board. Something like You can get by on a stock ECM. Not exactly a resounding endorsement. If I'm incorrect then Mea Culpa. If people wish to run their bikes on the lean end of the spectrum that's fine with me, as long as they are aware that there is much more performance to be had, and that they are taking some risk with their motor. I've seen first hand what happens when a bike runs "a little lean" after fitting an aftermarket exhaust. Back in the 80's-90's I rebuilt several bikes that had aftermarket pipes installed that burned valves and/or rings. I won't tell anyone how to run or tune their own bike. I just try to give them the knowledge they need to make decisions. Others have different opinions and it's no skin off of my nose. Variety is the spice of life. I just hate to see someone do mods, and after the bike dies blame it on the bike. It's not a new phenomenon for Buells. | ||
| Luvthemtorts |
I'ts all good man. I was simply relaying that I spoke to him less than a week ago about this very subject and was assured the bike would not be damaged while running a stock ECM and air cleaner. I don't want to overstep boundaries here by quoting him word for word but will share a little of what I can remember pretty precisely. When I mentioned that people said the bike would run lean he explained that this is not because of the can itself but rather the sometimes radical changes people make to the intake in addition to the exhaust such as open air boxes, high flow air filters and other mods which allows much more air into the intake than the stock ecm was designed to handle. Other issues were discussed but it is not my place to post them. Kevin seems like a very knowledgeable fellow (as well as a very pleasant dude to talk to) and had no problem taking the time to explain his findings with me. I am sure he would do the same for anyone concerned about it. After thinking about it it kinda made sense. With the stock ECM and air cleaner the bike isn't getting anymore air than before just getting rid of spent gasses in a more efficient way. How would that make it leaner since it doesn't affect the air fuel ratio during the precombustion/combustion cycles of the engine? I would think that changes to the intake side such as the numerous air box modifications people perform would be a bigger threat to engine longevity but then again what do I know  ? | ||
| Diablobrian |
Just like life, a bike is all about balance. I agree that the seemingly innocent little changes a person makes to the intake and exhaust will soon end them in trouble. If a person was to keep one end or the other bone stock then there are physical limitations on the air flow. Having said that, if someone is looking at the econo-drummer and keeping the stock ECM it usually means that they are trying to save a few bucks while improving their buell's performance. Want to guess what the first low-no dollar mods people do is? It is better to err on the side of caution than to assume a person has not removed the snorkel, or drilled the airbox. Making intake changes without the exhaust being opened up do a similarly small change to overall flow, but this is far more common than the other way around because of the lower out of pocket expense. I'm not worked up or anything, I'm outspoken and opinionated, in person, or on the net  I'm just trying to help! | ||
| Ikeman |
The econo Drummer or the Spec OPS pipe sound like the ticket for me on the Uly. I'm not looking for a performance increase I'd just like it to sound a little less like a lawn tractor. I take that back - my lawn tractor sounds meaner... | ||
| Kds1 |
I'm not going to argue, I did say to get the race ecm when changing to the drummer or any pipe for that matter, but it was always a justifiable cause to get rid of the stock ecm because it was inefficient to use with mods but extensive testing was never done on my part....I talk to alot of very credible people and I listen instead of arguing and I tried the stock ecm myself and is currently on my race bike with Drummer SS , it runs flawlessly on 100 octane gas and the plugs show no sign of a lean condition.....5 races at wot and it's not overheated nor has it seized.....If you are concerned about a lean condition on the stock ecm, then have it tuned to satisfy your mind, there are alot of Drummer owners running the stock ecm and filter....I'm testing my bike so you guys don't have to.....the shootout tests as far as airfuel ratio goes, all the runs are lean because the 02 sensor was unplugged for all the runs so the ecm stock or race was rendered ineffective and never had a chance to show just how much it will compensate for changes given the opportunity...... Kevin www.kdfab.com | ||
| Hogs |
Interesting Kevin, Unplugged 02 sensors for the shootout,Hmmm Wonder when the 02 sensors are hooked backed up, Wonder how the Ecm either stock or race , then tries to search for different a/f ratios, And can then, The ecms find a happy place for the A/F ratios for Cruise Mode. Wonder Does The D/L when using that Does the 02 sensor come into play for mapping ,If anyone out here knows?? As we all know the plms. with the Damn TFI and ecms always searching/cruise mode etc.??? | ||
| Diablobrian |
Cool, thanks for chiming in Kevin. |
