| Author | Message | ||
     Court |
Pup: Your young, it shows. Court | ||
| Indy_bueller |
Whoa! Pups remark was somewhat barbed, but I have to say I agree with him in that these other bike builders should get a little more respect from us. They are close to where Erik was only 20 years ago or therabouts. Not EXACTLY, but close. I personally think it is exciting that there are other forward thinking sportbike builders in this country trying to produce bikes. Its good news for motorcycling and good news for the good 'ol USA! Anony, I totally agree that paper claims are worth squat. I'd be interested to know the bad points of the Highland engine though. | ||
| Xlcr |
While we are talking dreamers, might as well mention Mr. Li and Mr. Dreer, both of whom had better business plans than these other gentlemen, and in Li's case, Honda as an engine supplier, and both failed to reach production. If they can't find backing, then the chances of these others are slim to none. As far as comparing the MotoCnizzle to the XBRR, the RR has at least entered and finished races, and even won in the lower leagues. The Snizzle did a parade lap last year, and this year it will be a 'static display'. Comparing it to Buell's effort is laughable, I seriously doubt it will ever enter a race. I read the press release, and to me the only thing on there that really meant anything was that last line that said, "investment opportunities" were still available. As far as making an American four, Right! why don't you go and check out the sales figures for Triumph's TT600, D600 and D650 fours? Or let me save you the trouble, almost no one bought them. That's why they are no longer in production. Apparently, the Japanese are building all of the sporting fours the world currently requires, except for a trickle of MV's going to the very well heeled. They have a lock on the market and a hell of a head start on the rest of the world, and Triumph's experience should be enough to convince the thoughtful that building more of them in a foolish attempt to compete is merely a way to throw away money. An 'American' four would be generally perceived, and quite correctly so, as a clone of the Japanese fours. Most would surely treat it with the same contempt Harley riders show for Japanese cruiser clones that look too much like Harleys. So give it up. Triumph has already shown it wouldn't sell. I suspect the number of Americans that would be willing to buy an American made Ninja clone is vanishingly small. | ||
| Xlcr |
Hah! I went to the website, so what was the bottom line, and in large letters no less? "Investment opportunities' are still available.  | ||
| Thepup |
Cool 36 is young.Court,you are a mouth piece for BMC,it shows.Anony,when did I put Erik down,his first bike was very impressive,how many races did his first bike compete in?Where is Buells attempt at Superbike or MotoGP?My post was not to put down Buell,but to show how ppl are a little kooky when it comes to Buell. (Message edited by thepup on July 05, 2006) | ||
| Sokota |
Neat engine , compact , 60 degrees , just lose the H20 cooling, air cooled with some badazz cooling fins ... | ||
| Jscott |
Perhaps Anony is so touchy because these guys are setting out to build the bike that the Motor Company won't allow Anony to build.  Seriously though I wish these guys the best, the reason these guys get press is because America wants an American Superbike and we have yet to see one. Poland got to see a few. but we have not. Wishful think? Probably, but I'm rooting for them. I'll also be rooting for Buell in the FX races. | ||
| Jscott |
I think it's great that Anony has admitted to looking at other motors! Great news! | ||
| Molly_hatchet |
any bike that pushes the envelope will bring changes to other companies if they produce something that works and becomes in demand....i.e. under the bike exhaust now used by two or three of the big 4...why it works and erik pushed them to adapt....anybody that think buell couldnt use a little push now and again is nothing less than stupid...i think we all know our bikes need help we just love them anyways...kinda like the hot crazy girlfriend ....if that bike works then more power to em....maybe we will see changes that work for the better. | ||
| M1combat |
Hasn't the XBRR won races against full on superbike spec bikes in lower classes? Not factory superbikes mind you, but bikes built to that spec? | ||
| Molly_hatchet |
when erik makes a race bike that has specs like the rcv then maybe we'll get a little respect..but i spose that would come at a price....then every asshead will want one and we will all be riding that highland motored thing or somethin. | ||
| Jscott |
"Hasn't the XBRR won races against full on superbike spec bikes in lower classes?" M1 the 1st XBRR win was indeed over a WSB spec Ducati 999. Of course you have pointed ou that it was in the lower classes. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/158664/179922.html?1141577414 In the BIG classes it has been looking at the backside of some top notch 600's as well as regular run of the mill 600's. | ||
| Tbowdre |
love this forum... love my buell.... would really really love to see united states build a killer superbike... come on BUELL!!!! piece | ||
| Court |
>>>>They are close to where Erik was only 20 years ago or therabouts. Not EXACTLY, but close. That's totally inaccurate; they are nowhere close. 20 years ago Erik Buell had three things that elude these folks.
I enjoy watching these hobbyists. I have some very wealthy friends and am always entertained by the things they can buy to convince themselves they are entrepreneurial and innovative. I look forward to riding into the sunset one a Fischer, Motowhatever or the Honda NAS but I'll follow one of you in putting down even a $100 deposit. Can you imagine anyone designing, developing, building and selling motorcycles for a living and NOT thinking about the wide range of engines they'd like to try. Erik's guitars have been through more pickups than you can count. | ||
| Court |
>>>>Court,you are a mouth piece for BMC Effectively yes, but only due to my enthusiasm. Genuine enthusiasm is infectious and fun. Genuine stupidity looses it's entertainment value about the 2nd time you say something unkind that makes no contribution to the instant conversation. If you are going to persist in acting like a total and complete idiot take it somewhere else, you are tiresome among grownups. Court | ||
| Samiam |
Well said Court! I have, since I joined this forum, enjoyed how little flaming takes place, as you have so appropriately put in one of your threads in the "Court in Session" section. When there is some, it is most often taken care of professionally and calmly. It reiterates how most Buell owners are more "grown up" than other manufacturers. Thanks again, Sam | ||
| Thepup |
Court,can't take listening to the truth.You can call me stupid,idiotic,whatever you want,coming from you it doesn't bother me at all.I'll give you another reason to attack me.If it wasn't for H-D,Buell may very well be out of business now,If not for H-D's money,the XB would not be,BMC may be just like the other American motorcycle companies.I am sure there will be plenty of your minions on here that will agree with you,but reality is reality.Please try to be honest ,I know when it comes to Buell,thats not easy for you,when you start your attacks. | ||
| Thepup |
It reiterates how most Buell owners are more "grown up" than other manufacturers. To bad Buells representitives aren't. | ||
| Indy_bueller |
They are close to where Erik was only 20 years ago or therabouts. Not EXACTLY, but close. That's totally inaccurate; they are nowhere close. Court, I see your point. No disrespect was meant. I've stated to you previously my level of respect for Erik and what he has accomplished, and I stand by that. Your knowledge of the subject is superior to mine, and I readily accept that. My point was that these guys are struggling to produce the bikes that they want to produce. Erik did struggle as well, but you are right, the obvious difference is that Erik DID produce what he said he was going to produce, while the others mentioned in this thread TALK about it while they muck about begging for funding. In the end, it's still exciting to me that these guys are out there. Some of their ideas are very innovative, and I'm certain that they get a great amount of inspiration from Buell. Lets say just for a second that Fischer, Czysz, and Roehr all become viable companies. So now we have four American manufacturers producing sportbikes. Instead of each one being a carbon copy of the next, each one is unique, with different advantages and disadvantages. This idea is exciting to me. Like I said before, its good news for motorcycling, and good news for the USA! | ||
| Eexb |
"I enjoy watching these hobbyists. I have some very wealthy friends and am always entertained by the things they can buy to convince themselves they are entrepreneurial and innovative. " THIS, just about sums up the entire thread !!! | ||
| Jscott |
Read for yourself... http://www.car.co.nz/motorcycles.asp?articleid=8460 Sounds like he is on track to me. | ||
| Jscott |
"Can you imagine anyone designing, developing, building and selling motorcycles for a living and NOT thinking about the wide range of engines they'd like to try." Would "like" be the target word in that sentence? | ||
| Court |
Indy: No disrespect perceived on my part, you stated a commonly held mis-belief. I agree that it would be stellar to have a handful of small successful American motorcycle firms. I'm confident our education system and the same spirit that got lots of us hot-rodding '57 Chevy's is uniquely alive in the American spirit. If you've been a party to the "global sourcing" thread, you know I'm an advocate of the "some folks just do some things better" school. Americans, when it comes to innovative technology, are among the world's leaders. Erik Buell holds lots of patents, he doesn't have any "one and only" lock on that...he'd be the first to tell you. My personal opinion is that most the current efforts, by their own hand, get quickly tossed into the "wannabe hobbyist" class. I'm not inferring they are necessarily lacking in design...just a proper grasp of the "big picture" of what it takes to launch a real motorcycle company. Most folks, again simply my personal opinion, have a difficult time coming to terms with how little (don't get me wrong, it's very important) role the actual motorcycle plays. Imagine, for a moment, that you have the PERFECT motorcycle....that part is done. Now get to work figuring out the logistics of making it, hiring people, protecting your rights, contracting with dealers, guarding against liability problems, meeting 80dB acoustic emissions requirements (and proving it), emissions requirements..and oh yes....are the filaments of those rear turn signals separated by the proper distance? . . . remember Germany and Chile have widely divergent laws if you wanna get this thing actually SOLD to fuel this beast of a company you are starting. This makes an interesting game when you are a multi-millionaire developer who's decided to become a motorcycle builder. It's MY KINDA game when you just quit a perfectly good job at Harley-Davidson, the car doesn't run, there are 2 babies in the drafty farm house, the bank laughed at you and your only asset is ...to quote Kevin Cameron "an American Dream". Court | ||
| Xbradical |
Face it guys. The motorcycle game, whether it be racing, or production, is ALL about cubic dollars. There are few if any, winning racers who don't have serious sponsorship and mass producing any motor vehicle successfully is virtually impossible without mega bucks. Remember the story of Tucker? | ||
| Glitch |
WOW! This thread got lively didn't it. Thanks Anony and Court for chiming in. It's always good to hear the inside story. I got an e-mail this morning from Roehr Motorcycles, and it sounds to me like they are in the VERY early stages. I wish them luck as I do with ALL American Dreamers. Fail or not, where else but America can you even TRY to pull something like this off, regardless of money? Sportbiking is a growing sport in America, it only makes sence that people try to make a go at it. Right now as I see it, the only contender is the silent one. Buell's major competion will be IMHO the KTM/Polaris merger, they've been awfully quiet about their upcoming bikes... Oh and the e-mail... Dave, Thanks for your interest in Roehr Motorcycles. The bike you are refering to is the Rv1000, this bike was only a prototype and is not planned for production. However, we will be debuting a totally new sport bike this summer, the engine in the new bike will have power potential of 180+ hp and will make a great racer. Stay tuned for a major press release soon. Best Regards, Walter Roehrich Roehr Motorcycle Co. | ||
| Raceautobody |
I agree with Glitch, KTM/Polaris has a high brand loyalty in the younger population with their off road products. As soon as they release a true sportbike (and it will be an american made bike) look out. They look to have thier sights on HD/Buell. Al | ||
| Dbird29 |
The Norton redo out of Oregon sure got a lot of good press and a wonderful spread in Cycle World. But it was just a small blurb announcing the demise of the "New" Norton. Oh wait! The Excelsior Henderson is going to be the second coming that kills Harley. Ooops It is all PR until the product ships and not a viable company without the financing. Most of these boutique companies are akin to Orange County Choppers and the such. | ||
| Court |
Polaris is an amazing, and amazingly well managed, company. Study their history a bit and you'll get a premier lesson in American ingenuity. | ||
| Glitch |
Al's right, Polaris/KTM already have a base customer. KTM already has a base as well. Victory has done well, and seems to be doing better as time goes on. It's easier for me to see a kid going into a Polaris dealership to look at the newest dirtbike and being distracted by the new American SportBike, or the newst American SuperMoto, than I do the same kid walking into an HD dealership for whatever reason. Court said it right, there's A LOT more to the motorcycle business than building a motorcycle. It's also a rapidly changing business model, with all us Boomers getting older, we are no longer the target audience like we were ten or so years ago. People go to an HD dealership to: Look at Harleys. Buy Harley stuff (motor clothes ect.) Look at Buells. Buy Buell stuff. People go to Polaris to: Look at ATVs. Look at Snowmobiles. Look at Jet skis. Look at Utility vehicles. Look at Victory motorcycles. They also have motor clothes and accesories as well. Now add to all that, everything KTM has to offer. I personally think HD needs to expand their horizons more. Quit with the "it has to be 45o, it has to look like it did 50 years ago. I'm not saying they need to quit the HD branded retro crusiers, I'm saying they need to e x p a n d . IMHO, HD should have bought out Cannondale when they had the chance. | ||
| Spatten1 |
"Polaris is an amazing, and amazingly well managed, company. Study their history a bit and you'll get a premier lesson in American ingenuity." I used to work for a competitor of Polaris, and what they do best is build what consumers want. They are very marketing driven, from a product design perspective. With sound engineering that is a model for success. |
