| Author | Message | ||
     Holling |
I find myself recently lusting after a CBR600RR. Having never owned a 600 IL4, I was wondering, those of you who have, what are the major differences and why did you go the air cooled v-twin route which has less power and performance? | ||
| Metalstorm |
Under 100 mph I don't think my 12S is under powered at all compared to a IL4 600cc machine. Most of the roads I ride are so tight & squiggly that even the best rider would kill him or her self if he/she attempted to go over 90mph on them. I am pushing myself to about 75% of my ability just to go 70-75 mph. On a straight road sure, an IL4 600cc will probably hand me my lunch but I slow down for the straight bits any way. The cops are found more often than not on the long straight stretches & I've never been a "straight away bomber" anyway. It just doesn't float my boat to fly in a straight line like finessing my way through the twisties does. So in short; for my riding style, the 12S was the prefered choice. There was no other route to consider. On the other hand.. If I was a serious track day kinda guy I would be wanting either an IL4 600 or better yet, a Triumph Daytona 675. Ohhh Yeah! (Message edited by metalstorm on May 29, 2006) This is the earliest I've ever been late! | ||
| Bugman |
Multiple cylinders/multiple valves/multiple carburetors buried under acres of plastic equals multiple headaches. I don't care how fast those things are, they don't hold their value and eventually all machines need service. They aren't worth the long term implications they carry with them. | ||
| Kurosawa |
Why did I pick a Buell? 'Cause I'm an old fart, which means: (1) I expect my dollar's worth. My 3600-mile 2004 XB12R cost me $6100 off eBay. I took a chance because it didn't have any major evidence of spills and pretty much you can't kill a Sportster motor in 3600 miles no matter how you flog it. On the other hand, there is no way I would buy an I600 used simply because they're not only less robust, but likely to have been some high schooler's first bike that got dropped, mistreated, and crossthreaded daily. (2) I ride to survive. I don't have a kid's illusions that I'm immortal. I've seen enough dead and crippled folks to want every advantage. The XB has tons of brakes, real world power (the kind that gets you out of trouble because it's always there in your right fist from 2000 to redline), and maneuverability. It is a very forgiving bike. It needs to be, because neither the highway nor the drivers are. (3) I aim to keep what I have. Buells are stolen far less frequently than I4 sport bikes. (4) I like it when I know I've got someone's best effort. Larger manufacturers strive to create product differentiation, shorting this model out of these features, that model out of various aspects of performance, and so on. You know the accountants have been through even their top-of-the-line bike with a fine-tooth comb. In no way can you say any of their models represent their best. Not so with Buell. (5) I appreciate community. Buells, as you can tell from this board, require more knowledge of riders than cookie-cutter 600s. Dealers are notoriously underprepared to deal with the Buell as its own mechanical entity. Of necessity, there really is such a thing as a Bueller community. Yeah, there are major annoyances, like limited tank capacity and not having mounts for hard luggage. Yeah, I probably would've been functionally better off with a DL650 and Givi bags. But like I say, I'm an old fart, and my spunky skunkworks American bike suits me just fine. (Message edited by kurosawa on May 29, 2006) | ||
| Adrenaline0210 |
my last bike was a 04' zzr600 inline 4. Nooo tourque, had to tack to 10k rpms to make power. Fun on a straight and nice smooth power, but the buells are much more tourque and rat power than an inline 4. U can chug it down to 2k rpms and then just twist the wrist coming outa the corner and rip that gear down the straigh where a 600 ull end up down shifting in the corner to keep in the powerband then once the straigh ull shift 1 maybe 2 times where the buell you will maybe need to shift once. Dont get me wrong the rice crowd rules on the highway, buells top out at around 125 or so where that where the inlines pull hard. If you are into weelies the buells are crazy, litteratly anywhere under 60 i wana lift up i just pounce on the frnt lil clutch and im at balance point, my zzr id have to clutch hard and by the time i was up i was throught my gear looking to shift at 60 wasnt comfterable. Nicer for 2up riding too. I have a 9s and dirtbike bars installed, Bike pulls me and the gf great where i used to have to downshift constantly on uphills, kinda annoying. And believe it or not the xb is nicer to ride... Dont forget everyone and there brother has a 600, no one has xb's... mines cheaply modded, dirtbike bars, mirrors, race-kit custom paint, cut tail all done myself and i get more looks and comments than i can think of its an amazing feeling... good luck. | ||
| Lonexb |
cbr600rr... the MOST uncomfortable seat (stock and corbin) i ever had the pleasure to ride on. i can do about 100-150 miles on it then i am done riding for the day. xb12r... comfortable, can ride all day with no problems. i can easily do 4 or 5 hundred mile days in a row and be fine. brian | ||
| Spatten1 |
The 600's are awesome for pure performance. Not much fun when stuck in traffic. The Buell is much more of a pleasurable ride. I got into Buells because I wanted a lower power bike that had personality and still handled well. When I'm on the track I regret having the Buell engine, but when I'm on the street I love it. I had a 1998 ZX9R as my last Japanese bike and it made awesome power, had great midrange, and was comfortable as could be. It did everything well, but I would get really frustrated when in traffic and did not enjoy just riding around much. I only had fun when jamming it through canyons at stupid speeds. The XBs work really well and feel really good just blasting around town or on a back road at a sane pace. The entire experience is more pleasurable as a whole. And when you want to stuff it in a corner it takes all you give it. | ||
| M2nc |
Spatten1 has just hit the nail on the head. The 600s are faster on top end, but not faster in the twisties or at lower speeds. At the strip the M2 ran within a couple of tenths of the 600s at the quarter mile and the 1000s would chase me off the line and all the way through the eighth mile before passing me. The M2 is not as fast as the Uly or any other XB12 with the extra 12hp. On mountain roads I have always been able to at least keep up, if not out run repli-racers on either the M2 or Uly. I have tested several Firebolts and they handle better than either of the two Buells I have now. I would take a Firebolt against any Repli-Racer on a tight twisted road and leave them. I have ridden my CB750 with Buellers and with a friend on his Kawazaki 600. I know from personal experience that I-4s that to push hard to keep up with a Buell that is just riding normally on the street because the lack of low end torque. The problem is the 600s have little to no power under 5000rpm, they fall behind then rev it past 10,000rpm to catch up. I-4 engines go from no power to brute force in nothing flat so just about the time they start to catch up the Buell is slowing in traffic. The two types of bike just don't ride together well Last point. My Honda was stone cold reliable. The bike was smooth and quiet and never did anything I did not expect in the 24,000 miles I rode it. But after I started riding the M2, the Honda was boring to ride. Yeah, if I pushed it the bike was quick. The Honda could out run a stock XB9, but I would much rather be on a XB9 than the Honda for just plain street riding. Buells are just fun at any speed. The question is what do you want out of a bike. If you want just all out speed, where you either love to ride 150mph on the street, or you do allot of track days then nothing is better than the I4 powered Repli-Racer. I would have the GIXXER 750 if i were in the market for a Repli-Racer. The better handling of a 600, with power that keeps up with most liter bikes. If you are interested more is sport street riding and do not ride triple digits on the street very often, then nothing is better than the Buell to me. | ||
| Bake |
IL4's are like rideing a router, they gotta be above 6000 rpm before they start to make power. The Buell has that tractor torqe that starts when you let the clutch out, the Buell handles better than any Jap bike I have ridden including the RC51. | ||
| Sub65chris |
i like the fact its an american bike with loads of torque , and a distinctive sound( especially with a new exhaust). my xb handels much better than the other sportbikes , at least differently . The bike seems more willing to change direction than the i4's . and the fact that you dont have to shift 10 times for every corner is a plus . the guys i ride with need to shift to keep in their power band to move quickly. With the xb the torque carries you through and the bikes handeling helps you keep the speed up while others must brake or crash . the short wheelbase runs circles around the bikes i ride with( triumph 995i, yamaha 600r, and a honda 600rr. ) all of the guys i ride with including myself got our bikes within a month of each other( a year ago) so we are at the same skill level for the most part . we have traded bikes for a short time and i must say for me the clear choice is the xb . 1 handeling, 2 style , 3 american made, 4 superior disign, 5 because! good luck with your choice , in the end its what you want not what someone wants for you . later | ||
| Firebolteric_ma |
just go test ride a buell. after that, IF WE NEED TO EXPLAIN IT YOU WOULDN'T UNDERSTAND.  | ||
| Badbuell82 |
"Multiple cylinders/multiple valves/multiple carburetors buried under acres of plastic equals multiple headaches. I don't care how fast those things are, they don't hold their value and eventually all machines need service. They aren't worth the long term implications they carry with them." ??????????????????????????????? Did you ever try and change the spark plugs on your XB?????????????? | ||
| Jkhawaii |
from stop light to illegal thrown in jail speeds on the street the buell is faster. | ||
| Jkhawaii |
oh and the buell to me has character that I like and is already faster than most any 4 wheeled car. | ||
| Lions |
Kawi's have the most comfortable seats in the world! I can do 7 days in a row with at least 800 miles under my belt each day. My ZX10R Is great in the twisties due to the fact that this bike is light as a feather I love zooming at 165mph and at the same time, I occasionally cruise with my boss and the Harleys at 45 mph. Traffic or no traffic, I still enjoy the comfort and the growl of this beast. Let's call a spade a spade here...This bike kicks a$$ in both the twisties and the straights. and...yes...I've had a Buell...The grin factor on the Kawi is right up there with the Buell. | ||
| Kurosawa |
So why aren't you on a Kaw board hangin' with the fun crowd? | ||
| Bébèrt |
The Honda is a fine, smart-looking racing tool but, in my 16 years of motorcycling I rode almost all engine types (that's 190.000km or 118.000 miles)) -Kawa zephyr 550-4cyl nice to get some riding skills -Ducati 750 ssc-2cyl lots of fun because the nice torque and feel of a 2cyl (but painful maintenance bills ) -Yamaha SZR660-1cyl not to fast but torque at the first twist of the wrist like only a mono can deliver -Yamaha XJR1300-4cyl very fast and lots of torque (130 BHP an 106 Nm at 6000 rev's) but you always tend to go too fast. -Buell XB9SX-2cyl best so far, good speed, nice torque, very good handling and then the good vibes of the engine ... I can't get bored with this one. even tried an Yamaha Fazer 600-4cyl with almost 100 BHP but, no torque below 5000 rpm and that is frustrating. You always tend to RACE the bike above 5 - 6000 revs to taste the power, this is boring, dangerous, speed ticket gathering and nerve-racking. So, (if you don't have a race track in your back yard) the choice is obvious  | ||
| Jimmy |
Get what you want. Ride them both first though. O yea Rice dealers wont let you demo. O well, take somebody else's word for it, their bike will always be better than yours even if you buy the same darn thing. Me I just love bike night when there are not 10 of my bikes setting in a big crowd of people with those 160mi per hour tickets to pay and are hoping they don't loose their insurance. I had an Kaw 9 that really raged. My XB12r is so much more fun I will probably never buy another brand. If I do it will have to be some kind of exotica like the Buell or Ducati's cause I just don't want another "everybody's got one". | ||
| Lions |
Kurosawa wrote"So why aren't you on a Kaw board hangin' with the fun crowd?" I come here once in a while to remember how depressing life was on this site  It's so funny How other sites see the good in all bikes but I've noticed over here, Buells are the bestest only because that's where you invested your cash!! On the Kawi sites, they also speak highly of Duc's, Arpillas, Yammi's, Buells, Suzuki's etc... I'm just very entertained here as a lot of you peeps have a one track mind! I love Buells, and Harley's, and Kawi's etc.. I never knock another product just because I haven't spent my hard earned cash on them... Sooo many different bikes out there and sooo many different plusses and minuses... Open your eyes once in a while. | ||
| Olinxb12r |
The 600RR is one hell of a bike, but so is the XB. It all depends on what you are looking for. If you are looking for blinding speed and a light stealthy bike any 600 from the big four will live up to that. If you are looking to be different and enjoy the little quirks that you get with an air cooled V-twin the Buell is for you. There are things the Honda can do that the Buell can't, but the Honda will never give you the wow factor that the Buell can. Test out a Buell at an HD shop and go beg some of your friends to let you ride their 600s and see what you like better. I've had both, and I do enjoy the Buell a little more, but at times I wish I still had an I4. I would love to ride an R1, GSXR 1K, ZX10R or a CBR1000RR, but I just think that they lack character. If I could have two bikes I probably would have a metric litre bike, but I bet the Buell would still get more miles put on it after the newness wore off of the metric. All bikes are cool and if you get one that you are happy with it is the best bike ever. | ||
| Freezerburn |
Oh lions, don't get upset. True passion for the Buell will blind almost all to any other perspective. You should understand this. It is really what makes this site so great. I love it when people truly believe in what they ride. I also like that there are others even more obsessed than myself about these great bikes. PS. Do our eyes really need opening? To what?....the other perspective??? The Buell is the other perspective. It's all fun we're all talking about, isn't it. | ||
| Mikej |
Lions, Don't paint all of us with the same brush. A bike is a bike. I've got my eye on the '06 Gix'r 750, along with a bunch of other ones. Probably just stick with the Buells I have until something comes along. Test ride what you can, beg a short test ride off a friend who has a bike you're considering, or just sit on one in a showroom going vroom vroom for 15 minutes or so until you get a feel for the bike in question. You're the one who has to ride it, what anybody else thinks is meaningless. Have a nice day. And choose the right tool for what you want it to do.  
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| Badbuell82 |
I know this is a Buell site, and to say so is a sacrilege, but, if everyone here is so down on 600’s, how do you explain the 600’s mopping the floor with Buells in racing? Even on the shorter tracks, like Pocono, that have lots of turns and not much in long straights? | ||
| Lions |
Honestly...I do so miss my XB12S  ..I just wish all the dealerships around me didn't drop them...that was my main reason for getting rid of it...I wish I could've kept it along with my Kawi...Maybe one day I'll make enough to have both | ||
| Mikej |
Yep, I've suggested it to others, and do it myself when bike shopping, shop the local dealerships first before you settle on a brand or model if it will make a difference to your ownership experience.
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| Olinxb12r |
Everyone is not down on the I4 600s. I think they are awesome bikes myself. If I had the money to have a track only bike it would be a 600RR or a 636RR. My only problem with the 600s is that every Tom, Dick and Harry has one. It is hard to deny the performance they get out of those small displacement engines though. It is amazing that the new 600s are pushing out the power that the litre bikes were just a few years ago. | ||
| Rocket_fuell |
Well I happen to have a friend that bought the 06 GSX-R600 and I have ridden it. The truth is this particular bike is not slow or lacking below 6K rpm. It's a good ride and very responsive. The only difference I see between it and my 9S is that when you roll it on past 6K you better be hanging on tight. It's to say it mildly a very fast motorcycle.. Just a thought | ||
| M1combat |
They are very fast for sure... No denying that by any means. The XB is a better high performance street bike though. I say that because I've never had any other bike catch me on my favorite canyon road, but I've pulled up behind many. I don't go out to race at all, I just ride my own pace. It's either that the XB is a bit easier to ride at a quick pace or the other guys aren't crazy... | ||
| Dago |
It's real simple. track = i4 street = buell I love riding around town and in the country on the XB. The R6 vibrates too much at highway revs and the ergos are too aggressive to be comfortable. For me it's almost unbearable. But the r6 is definitely out-performs the XB in every way on the track. The exception may be on a tight track with very minimal straights. 2004 XB12R 2006 R6 | ||
| Holling |
Hey everyone, I am the original author of this topic and I should have mentioned that I own a 9S. (Look at my profile) I love my bike but sometimes wish it had more brutal acceleration and higher rev capacity. I need to ride my buddy's R6 to see how the other side lives. I still don't think I would sell my Buell, just add a IL4 to the stable. |
