| Author | Message | ||
     Soon2be1 |
Ok this is whats going on... when i turn the key off from running the bike stays on until i hit a switch, lights, horn any thing it cuts off. well now i have no head lights. checked the fuses, the bulbs and the wires but nothing.i turn the bike own and start it,the high beam indicator light comes on even if the high beam is off. when i turn the high beam switch light on the indicator light gets brighter but no lights. ok i have had a lot of problems with electrical before. mods... i just did an integrator kit today. this was the first time i noticed the lack of head lights. i "shouldn't" have problems but the kit does not require the use of the negative wires for the turn signals. what do i do? please some one help... dealership time?? HELL no the closest dealership in pensacola HD and they screwed me over with the electrical before but charged me full price for half-a$$ work. please any ideas i will fix it myself even if i have to replace the ecm and wiring harness. thank you please help | ||
| Thepup |
Soon,check all your relays. | ||
| Davo |
Just a stab in the dark but could the main key switch relay have failed in the "on" position? There is a diode in the relay that could be complicating the trouble. Just an uneducated guess though. I will sit down and study the wiring diagram and post if I find a solution. | ||
| Soon2be1 |
i havent tried the relays.. i just replaced the turn signal relay. the diode? how do i check it.. thank you soo much i love the people on this site | ||
| Davo |
I just bought a new one to keep on board. It is a 31522-00C Relay, SPDT,MICRO w/DIODE SUP. It was the only relay listed for the xb12x (ULy). It has five blade connector base. The internal diode arrangement is not specified on my wiring diagram so I do not know where it is inside the relay and therefor I don't know what it is supposed to do. A diode only lets current run one way. It is like a one way valve for electrons. This could let current go where it is supposed to go and if the key switch relay is stuck on then you could be getting some weird feed back from the ignition relay. | ||
| Davo |
It is in the fuse box. It is white and square shaped. It should just be gently pulled out. | ||
| Davo |
Just an idea and you might want a second opinion: 1. Verify that the aux. relay has the same part number then switch it out with the key switch relay. (it should be) 2. Also if you pulled the diode pin then make sure it the pointed triangle is arranged in the direction indicated on the fuse lid. 3. Make sure you are out of gear!!! | ||
| Davo |
Soon2be1, Did you disconnect any grounds to the frame under the seat or at the neck? | ||
| Soon2be1 |
neck no... just from the rear tursignals.. i will try the relay swaps... see if i find a bad one. thank you | ||
| Davo |
Take it one step at a time. If it does not work go back to step one. I think if your relay is not bad you must be getting some feed back from the light and/or ignition circuit and it is keeping the key relay excited. If you changed the turn signals and had some issues with the grounds then that could be the trouble. the lighting circuit comes off the the key relay and so does the ignition circuit. According to your trouble description, it appears that you are turning the bike on and off with the key and not the ignition switch. It that the case? | ||
| Soon2be1 |
ok where is the aux relay the only relays i found in the panel are the start, ignition,key switch... the key switch still worked with the relay out??? | ||
| Soon2be1 |
yes i use the key not the switch.. never had a problem before. but i had the key problem before i had the headlight problem. i did the turn signals today and found the head light problem. the key switch was found monday, the last time i rode the bike | ||
| Davo |
I would back track your turn signal mod. Before I went through the electrical system. I always use the key first and watch the speedo and tach sweep then turn on the ignition until the engine light goes out. It is like booting a computer. The system needs time to wake/boot up; but that should not be your problem now. I recommend going backwards. You mentioned the signals not having grounds? | ||
| Davo |
No electrical mods before key switch problem, right? | ||
| Soon2be1 |
no signal grounds, the kit uses the brake light ground for the turn signals. i spoke with a honda service tech a min ago and he said the kits from clear alternatives are good kits but they do not use the factory signal grounds. in the morning when there is light i will try to ground the ground wires i dont know if they are in a system where they need to be attached to something? | ||
| Soon2be1 |
right no "new" mods.. had led signals for about a year | ||
| Davo |
Long shot #3:Check Battery ground as well! Most problems with low voltage DC systems is Bad grounds and/or connections. Just a little resistance at a connection and you got major voltage loss. As for the Key switch relay, if it is not bad it could be in the switch itself. At this point your problem is voltage getting to the relay even when the key is off. There has to be something exciting (current&voltage) the circuit or the relay it is stuck/arced closed. | ||
| Soon2be1 |
once again thank you i will try in the morning if i find out anything i will let you know thanx | ||
| Davo |
Anybody else got any ideas? The wiring diagram is pretty complex. I read it that there are two relays to get the thing to run. If it is running they are both working. The problem is getting the key switch relay to quit working with the key switch turned off. When Soon2be1 turns off the key it keeps running! | ||
| Davo |
Replace key switch relay first! Then, if SOMEONE (please) will confirm voltage on R/BK on pin 11) at Key switch relay from key switch needs to be hot to activate Key switch relay. According to xb12x (uly) diagram it is. It might be different for other xbs. If it is the same color code and arrangement for all xbs then check the voltage coming out of the key switch at R/BK (#3)terminal. It should be zero volts with the key off. If it is not then.......After removing the wire (if possible) see if the voltage is coming off the switch or off the wire. Wire should not be hot if removed. If it is then that is the problem...feedback voltage from somewhere. If there is voltage at the switch when it is off then the switch has gone south. Though I could be wrong. It won't be the first time.....today! Getting late, I am rambling again...sorry! | ||
| Davo |
Before you do anything...pull your brake, horn and muffler fuse (10 amp) and see if you can turn off the bike w/o the ignition switch. On the Uly this is the only other circuit that shares pin 11. By pulling the fuse you will isolate a bunch of potential issues (unwanted voltage sources). Remember to replace the fuse before riding!! If the Uly harness is different from the other xbs then disregard EVERYTHING! If removing the fuse works then let me know. (Message edited by davo on May 11, 2006) (Message edited by davo on May 11, 2006) | ||
| Opto |
As Davo says, remove the "brake horn and muffler fuse" and see if the motor will turn off with the ignition key. If it doesn't, then it would be the key switch relay or ignition key switch at fault. This is a can of worms, do first things first, remove that fuse and let us know. Also need to know if this happens all the time or just intermittently in order to be of any help to you. Edit: Davo, I have an XB12S/XB9S wiring diagram. I can confirm that voltage on R/BK on pin 11 at Key switch relay from key switch needs to be hot to activate Key switch relay, and that any stray voltage from the b/h/m/ fuse will also activate that relay. (Message edited by opto on May 11, 2006) | ||
| Davo |
Thanks Opto. I went back to review Soon2be1's trouble and I missed this fact: "The key switch still worked with the the relay out?" I had to sleep on that and will dwell on that today. I was looking at the key switch, left hand switch or the key switch relay. If the above quote is true then its not the relay! I would be interested if the bike will cut off when the brakes are applied? (relay in and out) Keep throwing us some more pieces. of the puzzle. Just a matter of time. | ||
| U4euh |
Just jumping in here, thought of something. I know that for a while, a lot of 03 models were prone to the wiring harness rubbing on some of the cables undrneath the airbox. Have you checked this. You do have to remove the lower cover to gain access to the top of the motor to see it. I believe the throttle cable was rubbing through. Also when you disconnected the turn sgnals, maybe did something get chaffed inthe same area? Just a quick thought B4 going to work. | ||
| Soon2be1 |
ok ok hers some more. well i grounded the wires from the original lights. nothing new happened. i was testing the key problem and found out that if the bike is running with the high switch on and i turn the bike off with the key it stays running. i thought that if i touch anything electrical it will cut off but only when i turn the light switch to low does it cut off. if i turn the bike off with the switch set to low the bike will turn off as normal. i probably didnt have lights the last time i rode but it was during the day i didnt check it. i dont have a manual for a 03 xb9r so i will go to pensacola and get one. that sucks. thank you for every ones help. i checked the wires under the air box.. no problems, grounded the lights nothing happened. i checked the bulbs both are fine. is there a relay for the headlights that i dont know about or cant find any one know?? | ||
| Davo |
Soon2be1, So....if you have the lows on then there is no other out of the ordinary electrical issues? When the highs are on then the key will not turn off the bike by itself. When the highs are on then you need to turn the bike off at the ignition switch, right? O.k. now....if you turn the bike off then turn the ignition on....and the high switch on do you get any dash lights or fuel pump noises? Curious as to if the battery is discharging through that circuit. I am also still baffled about the bike continuing to run after you pulled the key switch relay. I GOT to know whats up!!! Also, sorry about the AUX relay idea. Uly's have AUX relays for the two power points. I did not think about that last night. It is a good idea to get an extra relay for under the seat. They are less than $10.00. | ||
| Diablobrian |
Did you do anything to the head light circuits? Did you change the front turn signals too? | ||
| Opto |
Nothing to say here till you repeat the fault without the brake/horn/muffler fuse in place. | ||
| Davy_boy |
Just fixed a short last week on my 04 12s . Went for a ride parked the bike and when I went to go home I had no head lights , moved the steering wheel back and fourth and the lights came on . Went home and found a short ( broken wire ) in the middle of the harness where it is mounted to the steering head just below the triple tree . I can see this could be a problem on Buells . Take a look and move wire bundles around and you might find the same type of thing . I took some pic's of it and will try to post them . (Message edited by Davy_boy on May 12, 2006) | ||
| Soon2be1 |
FIXED IT!!! well it was sooo simple i laughed. on the R models there is a "pin" connector that has the headlight ground, high beam, low beam and a orange wire in it that after the connector only 3 wires come out. the orange one doesnt come out. i had problems with this connector a while ago and had harley of pensacola fix it. they rigged one of the wires and charged me $90 for it. so i dont go back to them. but i hard wired the lights. the orange is the high beam switch. so no connector. the connector was not allowing the orange and the high wires to connect. as for the key. once i fixed that there are no problems. thank you everyone | ||
| Davo |
Great news!! | ||
| Soon2be1 |
some of the simple things in life are so frustrating but thanks for your help good looking out | ||
| Fullpower |
???? what did you fix? | ||
| Davo |
It was the LH controls pin connector. I was looking at that as a potential source of the problem but it was very difficult to trouble shoot because the wiring harness diagram does not elaborate beyond the connector. It does not show you the switches and it does not specify what color wire goes to what specific switch. If it was not the feed back issue off the brake, horn, muffler circuit and the "Key Switch" was o.k. then the third step was to examine LH controls. After the relay removal I sort of ruled out the b,h,m circuit but was looking hard at the Key Switch itself. Well, I am glad I was wrong and I am really glad it is fixed and it was a simple fix!! | ||
| Sgthigg |
"but i hard wired the lights. the orange is the high beam switch. so no connector. the connector was not allowing the orange and the high wires to connect. as for the key. once i fixed that there are no problems. thank you everyone" BRO! I told you to let me do that 3 weeks ago for you when you swapped out that turn signal ...lol Im glad its good to go....Now maybe you will actually ride some time slacker!  | ||
| Soon2be1 |
i know i know.. see i listened to you but it took a little while... i tried calling you but no answer call me wed. when you want to ride. slacker??? oh yeah i am going to clean my bike.... some time |
