| Author | Message | ||
     Blake |
Darn people wanting to make a profit! We will NOT stand for THAT!  If you want in on the fix, simply purchase some oil stock. The simple truth is that high oil prices are good for America. So quit griping. Good grief. | ||
| Bomber |
the states stand to profit? wow -- I would LOVE to see my state in the black, fiscally speaking -- they could then lessen other taxes -- while the lessening of the average fuel consumption is likely correct (I have no reason to doubt Ryker's research ability nor his honesty), I'm confued by the placement of that fact in the rest of the email -- is one to deduce some likage between government and the economy of cars/trucks people purchase? wow, the state as a for-profit entity -- pretty darned cool! ;-} | ||
| Perry |
Yeah, it's all part of the George Bush conspiracy. They use tax money to fund all the construction of the roads, then one day BAM! It will become clear they are all really shape-shifting illiterati aliens that will CHARGE US to use the roads and they will rake in the profits for themselves! Anyone else wonder why Moore looks like Jack Black, and neither one rides a Buell? The truth is that Bush's name ends in a K (so does Jack Black), which is Bushk, which is Russian for "air cooled V-twin". It's all becoming clear now that I've had a few drinks and snorted some carb cleaner... The pegs on my Buell have NO TRACES of moon dust...and the engine did NOT come from a 757 jetliner!  | ||
| Slaughter |
Ah HA - I think Perry is onto something there... the 'K' conspiracy. I read it on the internet or saw it in a movie and coulnd't find it on Snopes - therefore it is true! | ||
| Bindy |
In my opinion, here in Aussie our government just keeps pushing until the majority of Australian's suddenly say "Hey this effects ME and you are going to suffer at the hands of the mainstream media and ballot boxes so fix it!" Until this occurs nothing changes. As for "Man On The Moon" I will not let anyone spoil my memories. As a young girl it made me believe that special and amazing things could happen even in dark times. It holds a magical place in my childhood memories, as I get older memories fade, but that day remains as clear as yesterday and still makes me smile. As an adult real or not real I just plain do not care what other people conclude, Santa, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy and if you want you can add Man on the Moon... I am a believer! | ||
| Fllbikerwolf |
Just to clarify a couple Apollo facts. The descent stage of the Lunar Excursion Module, LEM, stayed on the moon. The ascent stage, the part the Apollo Astronauts used to rendezvous with the Command Module (CM), was jettisoned before the CM reentered the earth's atmosphere. So, neither part of the LEM was returned to earth. | ||
| Rocketman |
I've touched the CM from Apollo 11. Rocket | ||
| Diablobrian |
The US government was forever changed by WW2. The implementation of the personal income tax was the beginning of the age of big government. The tax was intended to be temporary, just to pay off war debt, but the government got addicted to spending all that money. New branches sprouted up to decide where the money should go. Then states started giving up their rights and authority to get a piece of the federal pie. The government is not in the business of giving back your money. They have now gotten people used to the idea the they owe the Federal government an ever bigger part of their paycheck. The founding fathers never envisioned a centralized government with this much power. They fought long and hard to keep the majority of government authority at the state or local level. They also were firmly against the whole idea of career politicians. Political positions were a civic duty to them, not a job. Here's a question, what was the level of taxation (as a percent of income) that they started a revolution over because it was an oppressive burden? Now, what do we pay now (as a percentage of income)? Finally,How much real representation does the average Joe on the street get in their government? Is it any more than the citizens of the colonies got? It took over 9 months to get 9 out of 13 states to ratify our current constitution because the states were so afraid that the Federal government would be too strong, and would impose it's will unfairly on the states. Were they wrong? 55mph speed limit for road funds, and curriculum guidelines for school funds come to mind as examples that they were not. These are just ramblings. I know no one's opinion will be changed, just something to think about. (Message edited by diablobrian on May 09, 2006) | ||
| Davegess |
All ya gotta do is burn less oil. Problem solved. We could all use 10% less tomorrow with very little effort. The less you use now the harder it will be but doable. Drop 20% and the problem goesa away faster. Drop 50% and the world changes. The middle east loses importance. Many things change. | ||
| Midknyte |
The tax was intended to be temporary heh, name one that wasn't... | ||
| Stretchman |
For 50% less we would easily turn the tide. And aftermarket pipes get better gas mileage. So there! And no, I don't be;ieve the Govt. was involved in 9/11. But I do think there were some unscrupulous people who may have been in the Govt. that helped to mask the truth until it was too late. I also think that it is simply yet another case of other people taking advantage of our good nature. And that makes us so mad that we are one of the most violent countries on earth. There, I feel better. Stretch | ||
| Court |
The American people talk much, are slow to act. This is simultaneously our greatest strength, providing stability, and a source of weakness. The types of things that would result in change in many countries are minor, and temporary, inconveniences here as we busy ourselves with our day to day lives. How many folks, when cigarettes leapt to nearly $8.00 a pack changed, I mean changed at all, their smoking habits? Hint, it's a negative number, supporting the reverse elasticity theory. It's a bit difficult to think the same crew who declared "mission accomplished" over 3 years and more than 1,000 kids bodies ago, have a very keen perspective. I expect some posse comitatus types will do some saber rattling, but guess what. . Vinny in Brooklyn will still buy that Hummer H2. We are an interesting people. | ||
| Ryker77 |
"I'm confued by the placement of that fact in the rest of the email -- is one to deduce some likage between government and the economy of cars/trucks people purchase?" I don't think the men in black have an SOP on how to screw things up. Or have a long term goals to keep lowering the MPG standards. Polticians are liars and cheats. At some point it would have leaked out. However Oil Companies have given lots of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to politcal campaigns. So that they BUY certain votes. For example there is a direct link to both the lowering MPG standards, increase in highway contruction, urban sprawl and the AMOUNT OF MONEY given to the the liars for election campaigns. ANd there is no idea how much $$$$ is under the table-- such as Jack Aberoff. (sp) | ||
| Bindy |
Court I cannot agree more,and I believe history shows that, everyone kept asking "When are the Americans going to join in?" It may appear to be a weakness, but I think no-one will ever forget those words..... "I think we have awoken a sleeping GIANT" Yes quick to talk but slow to act, but boy when you do.... you do! And for those of you out there, yeah I LIKE AMERICANS!!! | ||
| Ryker77 |
"All ya gotta do is burn less oil. Problem solved. We could all use 10% less tomorrow with very little effort. The less you use now the harder it will be but doable. Drop 20% and the problem goesa away faster. Drop 50% and the world changes. The middle east loses importance. Many things change." TEMPORARY. Why? becuase of population booming skyward. We could use alot less oil with either government control, government support, or just wise consumers. - full synthetic oils. I use a fancy oil sold in Germany that meets Audi 506.01 specs. Nets an extra 2-5% mpg. - use correct size tires. do you really need 36" mud tires to drive to wal-mart. - use good tires. Tires that are designed for low rolling resistance. Not the cheap @$$ 100 a set for tires - keep air pressure in tires - proper car maintenace - allow small diesel cars from the UK/germany to be imported to the US (40-70mpg) - make the EPA MPG testing to be done in real world speeds. | ||
| Rocketman |
Stop the Chinese onslaught! Rocket | ||
| Aesquire |
"We the people need to STOP REELECTING any career politcian." Right on! So, since demand is up, ( thank you China, India & the people I envy because they can afford to buy Hummers ) & supplies are down, ( thank you islamic thugs, 2 hurricanes, and the NIMBY mo-fo's everywhere. "I don't want my view from my Martha's Vinyard Multi million $ mansion ruined by windmills" ) The price rises. I always figure the greedy ones at the oil companies are ripping me off.... That has not changed in decades. Read "The Prize", a history of the business. BUT! If you make $0.25 a gallon, and sell more every year, won't you make more money every year? We did indeed land on the moon. Skylab was faked. | ||
| Brucelee |
Factually speaking, the personal income tax has been around since 1913, not WW2 as was stated above. See below. By 1913, 36 States had ratified the 16th Amendment to the Constitution. In October, Congress passed a new income tax law with rates beginning at 1 percent and rising to 7 percent for taxpayers with income in excess of $500,000. Less than 1 percent of the population paid income tax at the time. Form 1040 was introduced as the standard tax reporting form and, though changed in many ways over the years, remains in use today | ||
| Brucelee |
It is nice to blame the govt and the car companies. HOWEVER, there are TONS of cars that get very nice gas mileage right now. If Americans were concerned about saving money and gas, they would buy more of them. They have not been. Which begs the question, do you want to believe what folks say, or what they do. So, get out a mirror and blame the correct party. | ||
| G234146 |
Save Gas! ride your Buell! Mileage per US EPA Urban Trace, City - 48 mpg / 4.90 liters per 100 km Highway - 65 mpg / 3.60 liters per 100 km (taken from the Buell spec sheet online) http://a1276.g.akamai.net/7/1276/1354/8ad684a95e3578/www.buell.com/en_us/bikes_g ear/pdf/xb12r.pdf | ||
| Diablobrian |
Thank you Bruce it was WW1, not WW2 my mistake. | ||
| Rocketman |
Well Bruce, according to BBC News 24 recently, GM are partly in the poop because SUV sales have slumped massively, prompting huge discounts to get them off the floor. Japan they stated, are out selling the US manufacturers on their home soil. If these BBC reports are to be believed, it would suggest American's are doing something about it. More and more are buying smaller more fuel efficient vehicles. Rocket | ||
| Ryker77 |
"HOWEVER, there are TONS of cars that get very nice gas mileage right now" Not true. I'd say the % of car that get above 30mpg is less than 20% of new cars offered for sale in the US. Which is why the AVERAGE mpg is at 20mpg. There are TONS of cars that could be imported to the USA and get great MPG. but thank both politcal sides and the EPA for keeping them out. http://www.dieselcar.com/cgi-bin/roadtestreadft.cgi?full_test!=-&sort_a=manufacturer NOTE those MPG's are imperial so X 0.8 to get US gallons. | ||
| Brucelee |
Well Bruce, according to BBC News 24 recently, GM are partly in the poop because SUV sales have slumped massively, prompting huge discounts to get them off the floor. Japan they stated, are out selling the US manufacturers on their home soil. If these BBC reports are to be believed, it would suggest American's are doing something about it. More and more are buying smaller more fuel efficient vehicles. Rocket RMan- your cite is correct. However, the overall trend data on this subject is not suggesting a large fundamental change just YET. As price prices stay high, if they do, we may see some more changes. The point I was making is that Americans will make changes when the price reaches a point where the tradeoffs are meaningful for them. We may have reached that point, maybe not. The other point I was making is that we don't need to raise CAFE standards to decrease gas comsumption. Consumers already have many ways to do that right now. So, to me, the tools are there, no need to blame anyone but simply change our behaviour. I have been riding my XB everywhere I can. 55 MPG, can't beat it with a stick. Over and out. | ||
| Brucelee |
If I have an SUV getting 15 MPG and I buy a Subaru Outback getting 25 MPG, I have just increased by mileage by 66%. Seems like a nice increase. The tools are there RIGHT now my friend. What is missing is the desire. Price of gas will fix this I believe. No need for Congressional hearings. There is a need for nuclear power plants though. | ||
| Davegess |
I agreee that the price will drive us to do things differently BUT I also think some things need intreventiaon outside the usual marketplace. My example todayis those little 9V and 12V transformers we usse for lots of things, powered speakers, phone chargers, cordless phones, the things are everywhere. There nickname among the power conservation peopel is VAMPIRE cause of the two fangs and the way they suck power. Now we need them BUT they are always drawing current, needed or not. They never trun off jsut make heat. Not a big deal for you or me but how many do you have always plugged in at your house? I have at least 5, maybe twice that. THE NUMBER I HAVE HEARD IS THAT ACROSS THE USA THESE THINGS WASTE THE ENERGY OF 1 ENTRIE POWER PLANT. I also understand there are "smart" ones out there that turn off and use about 10% of the energy BUT they cost a couple of dollars to make as opposed to 50 cents. No manufacturer wants to raise the price of their product by 2 bucks to save energy UNLESS the competition is doing the same thing. Almost has to be mandated. Kind of like the first seat belts, none of the big car companies would have put them in without the government requiring it. Now I don't think most of us would buy a car that didn't have then but in 1967 things were different. I think there is also a place for fuel comsumption requirements. We have shown that if given the choice and cheap gas we will buy the biggest cars and trucks we can get regardless of the fuel use. We will drive long distance to get to work. we will build an infrastructure that requires a lot of gas. Now in the short term we can reduce gas use a bit ans the next time we buy a car we can buy a small one but we don't buy new houses every three years and we can't rebuild our suburbs and shopping malls in three years so the infrastructure we build will effect our fuel needs for decades. If you look at Amercian history we will, if given free choice build bigger houses on bigger lots farther away from jobs, schools, and shopping. If we continue the entire eastern half of the country will be suburbs with hardly any room for farms. I don't have numbers for the rest of the country but here in Southeastern Wisconsin in the last 40 years we have roughly double the amount of space we use for housing and increase population but a very few percent. If we do it again over the next 40 years we will have suburbs from 50 miles north of Milwaukee all the way west of Madison and down to Chicago. I see no way to reverse or at least stop this trend short of government intrevention. I will stop ranting now. | ||
| Brucelee |
"If you look at Amercian history we will, if given free choice build bigger houses on bigger lots farther away from jobs, schools, and shopping. If we continue the entire eastern half of the country will be suburbs with hardly any room for farms. I don't have numbers for the rest of the country but here in Southeastern Wisconsin in the last 40 years we have roughly double the amount of space we use for housing and increase population but a very few percent. If we do it again over the next 40 years we will have suburbs from 50 miles north of Milwaukee all the way west of Madison and down to Chicago. I see no way to reverse or at least stop this trend short of government intrevention. I will stop ranting now." In a free society, folks move and live where they want to and can afford to live. In your world, you would do what? tell them where to live and not live. Hmmm, who would make THAT decision for them. You would take their freedom to work and live where they want, WHY? To lower the usage of energy. WHY? Is there some moral value to using or not using energy. Why do we have energy but if to use it. Waste is in the eye of the beholder. Be very careful what you wish for . BTW- the trend in the last five decades is for increasing number of US folks to live within 75 miles of our coastlines, NOT to take over farm lands. We already grow WAY more food than we can consume. Not to worry, the Mid West is safe. I for one am happy that I could buy a larger home than i grew up in . Fortunately, it is like 50 times more energy efficient to boot! God, I LOVE capitalism. | ||
| Brucelee |
"There are TONS of cars that could be imported to the USA and get great MPG. but thank both politcal sides and the EPA for keeping them out" If you are referring to diesel engine cars, the EPA is NOT keeping them out, nor in this case, is Congress. The states of Massachusetts and California are keeping them out. Their state air pollution standards do not allow diesel cars to pass. Given these two markets are not available to diesel makers, they CHOOSE not to import the cars. Write to your state legislature today. | ||
| Davegess |
In your world, you would do what? tell them where to live and not live. Hmmm, who would make THAT decision for them. We already do that with zoning rules. I can't speak for the rest of the country but the current trend here will see the area between Milwaukee and Madison turn to suburbs. I won't have any good palce to ride  | ||
| Brucelee |
So, are you suggesting that folks should be told to live so that you can have a nice bike route? Hmmm. |
