| Author | Message | ||
     Sledhead |
Just curious if anyone had compared the Lightning to the 620 or 750 monsters. I'm shopping for my first streetbike and am considering these two. Thanks | ||
| Shea |
From my understanding, the Ducati always seems to have the handleing in reviews. The technology is is really far ahead of many other bikes. As for the horsepower, I have always thought the Monsters were a bit under powered. The sound on both bike is very cool, both win in that category. You almost need to ride them both. Make sure the suspensions are adjusted for both though, especially the Buell. You will be highly dissapointed in the Buell if it's not. | ||
| Slaughter |
I am not a blind advocate of the Buell over all others since choice of bike is so personal - but consider the desmo valves and the frequency of adjustment (and cost of adjustment) - and the hydraulic lifters on the Buells (no adjustment) And wot Shea said! Suspension adjustment (or lack of it) is a BIG player in rider perception! You'd be better off test-riding a buddy's bike which has been setup properly in either case. I have friends who have ridden Monsters - and other 2-valve, air-cooled Ducks and love them. I was torn between a 748 and the XB9R - and went with the Buell for racing. As an engineer, I think the desmo valve system is silly in today's day and age. Unnecessary complication. | ||
| Bigeasy |
I have a 2004 xb12s with micron pipe that I love. But I have this sickness for bikes and am picking up a 2006 ducati sr2 800 on Tuesday. I will let you know what I think later this week. art | ||
| Signguy |
I have a 2003 XB9S and had a 2000 750 Monster Dark. I like the Buell much better but you should ride both of them and decide what you like better. BTW, the 695 replaces the 620. (Message edited by signguy on May 07, 2006) | ||
| Sledhead |
Wow you guys are fast! thanks! | ||
| G4string |
I posted this thread about a month or two ago. Do a search and you might find it?? Since then I bought a used 03' XB9S. I paid 5K for the bike...it was mint. Since then, I have done a few mods. The main mods being a Drummer exhaust, KN filter, and race ECM. Those mods will cost about $650. So, for $5600, you can have a killer fun bike. I am super glad I bought the Buell. It sounds killer, handles great, is easy to maintain, fun to ride, parts are readily available, and cheaper to purchase and maintain than a Ducati. | ||
| Rocketman |
As an engineer, I think the desmo valve system is silly in today's day and age. Unnecessary complication. How can it be silly when it eliminates the use of a spring? That's the second most stupid thing I've ever heard on the BadWeB, and from an engineer? Rocket | ||
| Buellshyter |
What was the first most stupid thing?  | ||
| Rocketman |
Someone claiming Rossi could beat me. Rocket | ||
| Slaughter |
The desmo system has been unnecessary for the past 40 years. Not saying so much that it's better or worse than hydraulic pushrods but the necessity of desmo valve control was back when the steel used in valve springs wasn't up to the task of returning the valves at high speed (valve "float") - hence the desmo system. Mercedes did it too in the 1950's but abandoned it as too complicated and unnecessary with improvements in metallurgy that enabled poppet valve response. Not that pushrod/hydraulic valve operation is a good thing on the surface, it's that desmo valves in an OHC can only be justified as a gimmick given the performance of modern (since 1970) OHC valve trains. Not wishing to defend pushrod v Desmo OHC motors - just a statement about the need for Desmo systems having gone away a couple decades ago. | ||
| Sledhead |
Ok so I'm really leaning toward the Buell now. Anything I need to look out for on the used ones? There seems to be quite a few 2003's for sale. | ||
| Kootenay |
I read somewhere that the idea behind desmodromic valves was only partly to eliminate valve float, but also to eliminate the amount of engine power required to compress the valve springs (it takes less torque to turn the cams). But that's beside the point. I rode a buddy's Monster 900--he was trying to sell it at the time--yet I still went out and bought a Buell. BTW, he still has the Monster, and is planning to keep it (currently in the shop having major tune-up work done...). | ||
| Rocketman |
Come on Slaughter, Desmo will always be a far better working system than springs. That's a fact. If it were not so, why is there not a spring in the world that can be considered standard for any level of performance to its given engine? A Desmo system requires no modification at any level of power. As for complicated, that's exactly what your typical American Buell fanatic would say. It's a myth, and from an engineering standpoint alone, you should remove the blinkers. Incidentally, that myth started years ago, when Desmo valve trains were driven by bevel gears. They were complexed set-ups, but since the advent of belt drive, not so, but those that don't know continue to preach the myth. Rocket | ||
| Sokota |
A question about DESMO heads , if the belt is off , is a person able to rotate cam pulley by hand and operate valves ? | ||
| Lonexb |
my friend has a s2r1000 i have a 12r, we have switched back and forth a lot while out riding. in MY opinion they are very close to each other power/performance wise. i think you just have to test ride both of them and see witch one you like best. brian (lonexb) | ||
| Shortie |
Oooh I can offer an opinion based on some very recent experience.  Over here in the UK the XB is the more expensive option! Ducati’s are a lot more common too. I have an ’05 XB9SX fitted with the low seat which I tested back to back with an S2R 1000 Monster before buying. I also rode an S2R800 yesterday because I’m finding the peg to seat reach and shape of the front of the seat force my hips into a painful position on the XB after 30 minutes riding. The standard seat would be great and solve that but I couldn’t put a foot down.  Now whilst I’ve always coveted the Monster range I was underwhelmed when I tried the 1000. Felt a bit rough and slow handling (compared to the XB) with an even heavier clutch. Having tried the 800 though with it’s much lighter hydraulic wet plate clutch (now also fitted on the new 695 model) and slick shift I’d have gone for that in the first place probably. More comfortable for me and refined in the way it rides, revs build smoothly all the way and it’s very planted in the corners, plus I still love the looks. It may give away 200cc but it’s easily the better bike. I was following the shop owner on the S2R 1000 yesterday, and the little one wasn’t noticeable slower. The XB feels and sounds better in many ways though – more manly for want of a better expression. Positive gearbox, rolling on for overtakes sounds great, Handling is pretty sublime too as you can change direction in ways the Monster would object to. Tighter the corners the better it gets. The Ducati is very quiet from the riders perspective when caning it but the small fairing does help comfort at higher speed. I want both……but will probably settle for a set of CRG roll a click levers, muller power clutch and a reshaped seat. Both really great bikes. If you can try both then do so. | ||
| Slaughter |
Point take on bevel drive (though those machines were beeeyoutiful to behold) The energy to compress valve springs is such a small portion of the total power pulse as to be insiginifcant. Patents on desmo expired over 20 years ago - usual arguments - if it's so good, why aren't the other teams serious about racing and winning ALL using them? Now, pneumatic or servo-electric actuated valves (continuously variable valve timing or "e-cams" - NOW we're talking sense) | ||
| Shinobi13 |
Check out the maintenance prices between the XB and the Duck. 6000 miles valve adjustments on the desmo gets very pricey if you ride an above average amount of miles per year... Lee |
