| Author | Message | ||
     Jerseyguy |
I went out for a ride yesterday afternoon and found myself going way too fast for the street. It seems that the track day on Sunday at Pocono has altered my perception of the road. I had to keep telling myself to back it down a'hole, there's guard rails, deer, cars etc. etc. to consider. My question to track day veterans is "Does common sense prevail and the need for speed fade with time?" | ||
| Daves |
Track days have slowed my public road riding a lot. Track days proved to me how foolish it is to ride at that level on a public road. I ride at about 5/10ths of my ability on the roads. | ||
| Mikej |
The SlimeyCrudRun here in Wisconsin is a good indicator of how people ride. Rural roads with people bicycling, kids walking down the roads with unleashed pets on the way to their local fishing hole, farmers moving farm equipment across roads just past blind corners behind a hill, and riders bragging about how they hit an indicated 150mph on the way between PineBluff and Leland. It's a great day twice a year to see an extreamly wide variety of bikes from the region. It's only a matter of time before someone riding beyond the reasonable limits of riding a public roadway cause some event that will result in getting the gathering shut down. The road is for riding, the track is for racing. (Note that I did not mention anything about posted speed limits.) | ||
| Bikoman |
I agree with Daves. Since I started doing trackdays over a year ago, I have slowed my street riding down to just slightly above post speed limits. John (Message edited by bikoman on April 12, 2006) | ||
| Dago |
I hardly ever ride on the streets anymore. It's almost boring to me now. But be forewarned Jersey, if you visit fast tracks on your Buell, you'll eventually want something faster and more purpose built. When/if you get it, you might say, "I'll keep the Buell for the streets, and use the new rocket on the track." (Like I did) But these days I'm having a harder and harder time justify keeping the Buell now that I truly understand their marketing slogan "Built for the street. Inspired by the track." Keeping the XB just seems like such a waste for the 5 or 6 times I'll use it this year. Riding my p.o.s i4 on the streets during those times and pocketing the extra XB $ is sounding better and better. | ||
| Mr_cuell |
When I started racing, my SuperHawk started to gather cobwebs. I only raced an SV650, but I eventually sold the Honda because I realized the more time I spent on the track the slower the road felt, especially on a bigger bike. It was able to so easily handle every corner, every ripple that it was a snoozer to ride sanely. I have been out of racing for 5 years now and the street feels fun again, but the speeds are increasing, and I should be on a track for track days. Once that happens I hope the process does not start over again. I think once you have really wrung out a bike on a track, the street gets boring unless you are on a small bike that you can wind out to 12k and bang through 3 gears and still only be doin 75. On a 100hp, reasonably well suspended bike I realized I had to break every law in the book to get to a pace that was exciting, and that pace was too dangerous and illegal on the street to bother with. I am a big fan of small bikes now. My wifes' Hawk is way fun to ride, but I don't have to worry about a triple digit ticket to make it feel like I'm movin out - Thats the irony - good suspension, handling and power make bikes perform so well you have to haul to make em sweat. 17 year old Hawk suspension keeps it fun at sane speeds. On the street you can certainly have too much power, too much suspension etc. It straightens out every curvy road and leaves you bored, wrecked, or on your way to being wrecked. I have realized 100hp is about all I ever want for the street. More is trouble for me temptation wise, and less fun to boot. I don't think I am going to bother with AK20 and a Penske for a streetbike either. It will only lessen the sensation of speed. | ||
| Spike |
I found that the track did two things to my riding: 1: Given me a better perception of how hard I'm pushing at a given time. 2: Made me less willing to push the bike as hard when conditions are less than ideal. While I'm now comfortable riding at a much faster pace than I ran before, I'm much less comfortable at the pace I used to run on the street, making me slow down my street riding quite a bit. The end result is that my street riding is smoother and more relaxed, but slower and less entertaining. | ||
| Henrik |
Track days have slowed my public road riding a lot. Yep, me too, and for the exact same reason. A couple of track day crashes hammered home (pun intended) the badness of crashing let alone of crashing on the street with way too many immovable objects. Imagine entering a turn thinking: "yep, not a good place to crash either ..." And as Jon points out, once you've had the chance to really wring it out (or as far out as my limited abilities allow) on track, street riding seems tame in comparison almost forcing a revised purpose for street riding. That's also one of the reasons I don't really do day rides anymore. They tend to become too squidly. I much prefer sport touring, by myself or with a few trusted friends, where the trip itself, seeing new scenery, riding new twisties, becomes the purpose more so than speed. But maybe crashing and realizing that I *do* get hurt, and that aging did nothing for my healing ability has something to do with it as well  Henrik | ||
| Jerseyguy |
So far I agree with most everything you guys have said. In my youth I was sponsored by a local Can-Am dealer in various forms of dirt bike competition. I did really well. I have an attic full of dusty trophies, tons of photos and lots of great memories. I also almost lost my wife over racing. One the coaches at Pocono followed me off the track at the end of a session and told me that I did really well. He went on to suggest I get a more purpose built bike for the track and participate more heavily. Maybe it was BS, I dunno. The speed, the competition, the thrill of the pass and on to victory is a powerful intoxicant. Some of you know what I mean. Baring my soul here a bit, I almost feel like a recovering alcoholic who just had a drink. But back in the day I was in my 20's and now I'm in my 50's and hopefully a bit wiser. I will definitely back it down on the street. I'll probably do some more track days too. | ||
| Race_pirate |
Since I have been racing, I went through a spell of hardly ever riding on the street. I started commuting again on my 883 cause of gas prices. Its amazing how fast you think are and what a bike can do, then you do a track day (I am smiling as I right this) There is NO FEELING on earth like railing a bike around a track. I tried it in a car, its not the same, Racing a motorcycle is Euphoric.... | ||
| Dago |
There is NO FEELING on earth like railing a bike around a track. I tried it in a car, its not the same, Racing a motorcycle is Euphoric.... Well said. | ||
| Mr_cuell |
I didn't own a bike of any kind for 3 years after racing. It soured me on the street that much! I am fully over that now and loving it again - | ||
| Buellgirlie |
will be on the track friday and saturday on a new (to me) firebolt. cant wait!!! D | ||
| Bloose |
Any of you guys ever try riding the "pace". I think that's what it's called. My friend and I spent a week riding in CO and SD this way. Basically it boils down to this, ride as hard as you can in the corners without hanging off the bike if possible, and keep the speeds down on the straights. As we all know the fun of motorcycling is in the corners, anyone can do 150 down a straight. But, 45 through some turns is really flying. When clocking most cops are going to do it on a straight section of a twisty road. By riding the speed limit or close to it on the straights you seriously reduce your chances of a ticket. Even riding hard through the turns you won't be far above the speed limit and then right after the turn your going to back down a bit. Also, by not hanging off in the turns your not attracting attention to yourself. The challenge of the turns is to never ever deviate from your lane, if you do your riding past your abilities and you need to take it down a notch. You know what can happen when you cross the centerline in a turn on the street or over shoot the turn. So you end up with a much narrower "groove" in the turn than on the track which actually adds to the challenge. I did my first track day last year about a month before the CO/SD trip. I have to say that I had a blast during both. Both were much more relaxed knowing I wasn't likely to be hauled off to jail at the end of the day. That alone made the rides much more enjoyable. When my need for straight line speed strikes I will ride down to the drag track and give it a go. In reality no where near as fun as track day but for terminal speed it's hard to beat and safe. B-loose | ||
| Rkc00 |
A little reading for all. http://www.catfishracing.com/Stories/The%20Pace.htm Mike Long Island, NY 06 XB12X Black of course | ||
| Jerseyguy |
Bloose - I have always ridden the street as you suggest which is to more or less maintain the speed limit on the straights and to take the corners in a more challenging fashion. I've always felt that any squid can twist a throttle on the straights but it takes some skill to rapidly negotiate turns smoothly and on the street safely. When I see a "curve ahead" street sign and I have a clear line of sight I usually speed up and lay it over to experience the fun of attacking the corner. On the track I'm at maybe 90% to 110% of my perceived ability. On the street I'm going to hold it to 50% as Daves suggests. | ||
| Mr_cuell |
Does that really hold true? On my favorite local road I can do the whole thing at 80, which it too fast. I usually stay between 70-80, which is still too fast for street riding, but would people really ride it at 35-40? It seems like if I approached the corner at speed limit (45) and then rode the corner at a spirited pace I would have to hit the brakes on exit to prevent shooting out of there at 80. I am all for not crashing, nailing corners and having fun, but even after reading that article I still don't really get it. Crossing the double yellow even once is enough to head back home for the group I ride with (we see it as indicator that our head is not in it and best to get off the bike until we are ready to ride it right) so making that a rule is no change. Maybe I have to try it. I remember years ago we tried to ride that same road at 60, no brakes, no hanging off and that was fun. We were on a Bandit 400 and a Hawk. Different but fun. Maybe thats what I need to try again on the XB. I just cant see riding at 40 (5/10ths) being any fun at all on bikes this good. Are you sure your only riding 5/10ths? In this analogy it takes about 60 mph to notice the turn and have fun, so if 60 was 5/10ths that would mean one of ya'll could do it at 120. Now I am not the fastest guy here I'm sure, but 80 is about the most I can see normal riders doing. I think I am beginning to get it - in this analogy 0/10ths is 50 mph. 10/10ths is 80. So 5/10ths is 65, which is reasonable but and allows reaction time. Is that how the /10ths measurements work? Surely 40 is not 5/10ths? | ||
| Henrik |
There was a very interesting article is Cycle World (I believe) where they questioned our ability to truly assess how fast 10/10s is and where we are on that gradation scale. The bottom line was that we probably all ride closer to our limit than we should. Henrik | ||
| Bomber |
I think that many of us DO crowd our limits (I know I do, but that ain't hard for me) -- track days help me with that a great deal -- they are also enjoyable as they are about the only time I feel graceful (if I'm having a good day), and it's definately the quietest it ever gets in my head -- Cuell -- I'm not sure the relationship is arithmetic, but, rather, more logrithmic (now I'm sounding like Blake -- shhhh, don't tell him!) -- sadly, I don't think limits are so easily expressed, unless you're Rossi on the same track in the same weather on the same bike set up the same way -- I know MY limits vary during the day -- kinda wooden first thing out, pretty ragged after 500 miles, I'm likely best about a third into the day -- similarly, there are days when I cannot put a wheel wrong, when I'm channeling for Springsteen -- other days, not matter what I do, I'm riding like an idjit, jerky shifts, missed apexes, cranky mindset when I get to 7/10s or so, I feel challenged, but not scared -- when I start crowned 8 or 9/10s, my pucker factor starts going up -- I've learned that I should pay attention to that, and almost always do | ||
| Bloose |
If you can hit 80 in the turn and not cross the yellow, without hanging off, and you feel comfortable doing I guess go for it. The point to the whole thing to me was not to hammer down the straights. After the turn just cost down to near the speed limit. I'm not saying you have to ride like that, I'm just saying I did it and had a lot of fun doing it. I wasn't all stressed about getting a ticket or not making a turn. We took the turns at a nice clip and the straights in a leasurly pace. It turned out to be a lot of fun and no stress so it's worth a try. B | ||
| Mikej |
The thing about using a 10/10 scale on a public roadway is that the scale changes often mid-point in a corner due to gravel, dirt, oil, antifreeze, cow manuer, potholes, hamburger wrappers, whatnot. Riding at 8/10 on a clean smooth corner becomes 12/10 when a washed out gravel strewn wet pothole appears that wasn't there yesterday. | ||
| Blake |
What Dave and Henrik said, well maybe not 5/10ths, more like 7/10ths. Dago, if you have little interest in riding on the street, then I agree, no need to keep a street bike. I'm not sure I follow the rationale for a track bike though. Too many extremely dedicated racers who run in the LW and club/formula classes. I guess it depends upon what one is looking for in a track experience, whether to go fast no holds barred, or to go as fast as one can while enjoying the bike that one prefers. I gave up my ambitions of running at the front of any money class long ago. It's all for fun and 140 mph is plenty fast for me. I guess what I'm saying is that I'd rather to 140 mph on my Buell than 180 mph on most anything else. We have a connection that may be difficult for some to understand. The bike just speaks to me. I think that a lot of Buell riders feel the same way. That said, I'll surely look forward to swapping machines when we look up at OHR later this year? ![: ]](http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/clipart/proud.gif) | ||
| Dago |
I'm more than happy for you that you found the perfect bike for you long ago. Truth be told, I only used the limitation of speed in my post above to keep everyone here from getting all upset. And I see no reason to "bash" on the bike when 1) I like it very much, and 2) they don't really compare at all. The bikes are worlds apart, and the new one suits my world just fine. Is it the perfect bike. Probably not. But my tastes and desires have changed, thus I prefer a different type of bike than I did 2 years ago. I'm jealous of those who feel their bike is the perfect bike. "I guess it depends upon what one is looking for in a track experience, whether to go fast no holds barred, or to go as fast as one can while enjoying the bike that one prefers." Why choose one option or the other? I'm doing both right now. Well...that's not entirely true. It's only a 600. If I weren't holding back any bars, I'd have gotten a 1000. Heck Blake, these things are just chunks of metal and plastic formed in different ways. I love most of them, and hate none of them. There's no real personal attachment for me. So would I trade for a few sessions? Absolutely, under one condition: You break it, you buy it. That's the deal my friends and I adhere to when playing with each others toys.  | ||
| Alanshouse |
I would like to know more about this track day at Pocono. I am coming home from Iraq in 2 months and would like to give it a try. Will I have to wait until next april? | ||
| Henrik |
Alan; lots of different track day organizers run track days at Pocono. I've done days with Team Promotion and NESBA. Both run good and safe track days. I've heard good things about the TPM ART school too. Check out their schedule on the respective sites. Henrik | ||
| Shinobi13 |
I currently run my track days with a CBR 600 F4. My street bike is a Kawasaki ZZR 1200 (that's for sale) that will be replaced very soon by a Buell XB12Ss Lightning Long. After doing a demo ride this weekend, I'm completely in love with the Buell and I think I can have much more fun on the street riding the Buell around legal limits than I can the ZZR at insane speeds. I agree with most... My street riding has definitely slowed down after rediscovering track riding!! Lee |
