| Author | Message | ||
     Dynarider |
Dana, try buying a new engine for your bike from Buell. You cant get one, they dont make em anymore & dont have any to sell. Same thing with Harley, they still have a few EVO engines that go in the softails & baggers. But you cant get one for an FXR or a Dyna. They made the EVO Dynas up till 99 & now you cant get an engine. You can get it remanufactured tho. So please someone point me where this law is. Say someone buys a brandnew been sitting on the floor somewhere in Utah evo engined Dyna. You would think that since this bike has never been titled, it would therefore qualify for the 1 yr waranty. But if Harley no longer produces the engine, then what if you end up with a blown engine? | ||
| Bads1 |
Theres something wrong with my BUELL. Well sir we checked it out and you need a new rear shock.But theres just one problem we can't get you a new shock Buell doesn't make them any longer.But my bike is only 1 year old and is under warranty for 3 more years. Dyna this is why they will still make parts. And as for state laws that does not pertain to this that would be probably be government controlled law. | ||
| Bads1 |
I guess you would get a remanufactered one then with a full warranty but Buell or HD is infact replacing it with something with warranty. | ||
| Dynarider |
Thats what I am asking...what government law would cover this??? Hell they dont even have a national lemon law, thats up to each individual state to deal with. And as far as the engine deal, yes you could have that done, but you or I cant go to the dealership & order up an engine. Your bike needs to go to the shop & they have to remove the engine, ship it out, have it rebuilt & then reinstall it. Say my bike is 3 yrs old now & I have mega miles on it & I want to slip a new factory motor in & I wanna do it myself to save some $$, I cant because I cant get one. What if I just want them to rebuild mine? I cant...dealer has to have it done. They have you over a barrel & nothing you can do. Sure you can always call up S&S & send them $5000-9000 & your first born for a killer engine. I know a lot of people say "its a law" but find it. I have never seen it in writing anywhere. Or is just another of those internet hoaxes? | ||
| Davegess |
Guys let's not get all upset because you can't buy a complet motor. You can't buy a complet M2 either. or a complet 2001 softtail or a 1999 Honda. The company does not make a whole bunch of complete engines to ship to a parts warehouse. In fact if thigs go to plan they make NO complete engines except for the ones that go into bikes. The demand for complete engines is very very low and HD will not sell one to someone who cannot provide a VIN to match and engine. Try buying a frame, can't be done unless you can provide the old frame. The company will however provide 'all the parts needed to service said engine for a very long time. | ||
| Dynarider |
Im not upset at all Dave. All I am saying is that every once in a while you will hear or read from someone about this "magical" law that forces manufacturers to make parts for 7..why is it always 7?..years. I have never seen proof yet this actually exists. And who & how would it be administered? Could you somehow sue Kia in korea because your car that was sold here in the US can no longer get a wiper motor for it? What court would you go to? The big companies & corporations have big $$$ attorneys who figure out all the loopholes & ins & outs before hand. Some joker screaming...Im gonna sue you because you stopped making shocks for my S1...is gonna get laughed at. | ||
| Nevco1 |
Dyna...Am having the law researched as we speak compliments of the legal department at a well known out of state University that excels in both engineering and law. DaveGess...Parts is parts, like the KFC commercial said. I really don't care if Harley makes good on the Buell 1200's as I don't have an extended warranty and my warranty has long since expired. I just want to know what my best options are should something happen to my bike. Example: Do I go to my dealer and wait for something that will not be delivered or do I go to Hoban or Nallin, etc and get it done quickly. Not angry with anyone, just want the facts. The riding season is short enough in Wisconsin and I don't care to lose riding time due to misunderstandings between Harley, the dealer and the consumer. | ||
| Nevco1 |
Dave... Question. Why doesn't Harley offer the remanufacturing service for the Buell and Sportster motors? Yet they have a lucrative program for their big twins. It would make sense that they would provide this service for all engines manufactured in a certain time frame. Then again, I may be reading their website wrong. Please advise. | ||
| Dynarider |
Damn Bill, I was just going to ask that. I just came off of Harleys site. Was looking to see if they offered the reman for 1200's & nope they dont. You gotta wonder why. | ||
| Nevco1 |
Dyna... I can make conjecture about that but won't. However, I am confident that it is a well founded management decision based on the MATH. LOL | ||
| Nevco1 |
Dyna...FYI, I do not feel Court is being evasive about this subject. If I remember correctly he is on a project or a holiday as I am sure many of those he would have to get answers from are. I am confident that he or whomever is most qualified will respond in due time. | ||
| Bomber |
Bill, Gregg . . . .no law states a minimum time that parts have to be available . . . . it's customary for auto makers to have em available for 5 - 7 years, and any company that sold a warranty must make good on it for the term of the contract, but, again, laws don't apply. HD is not offering remanufacturing on Buell and sporty motors, I would guess, due to the low volume . . .you would not believe the capital expenses required to start up a gig like that, paperwork, altering of titles (perhaps), ya da ya da ya da . . . . . . sporties were the red-headed stepchildren of the HD world (when you gonna buy a REAL Harley) until Buell came along . . . . the numbers, I'm sure, just don't justify the effort . . . . . . sides, given all the trouble that some tubers have had, I'd think most would rather go with Nallin, Hoban Brothers, or anoother well-know engie builder . . . more performance without that much more expense, yes? | ||
| Davegess |
Nevco, I don't know but I suspect it 'cause they see a large enough demand for big twins at premium dollars to make it nicely profitable. Makes sense that folks would be more willing to pop for top dollar on a $15000 bike than on a $8000 one. As far as the LAW, I have no idea, will await the research results. Sould be interesting. As far as KIA, well you sue the US distributor. With Excelsior they are gone so not much can be done. Buell and harley both provide parts for bike way older than 7 years so it is a moot point for them. BTW just 'cause they provide parts doesn't mean they provide parts in a manner that you want to buy them in :0) John Deere provides service parts going back 40 years BUT to get a 5 cent gasket for a 1967 lawn tractor you need to buy a $40 kit that contains gaskets for 15 different models. Most people are just happy they can get the part. Dave | ||
| Dynarider |
John, I know there is no law, thats why I asked Dana to find it. Its another one of those urban myths you read about. And as far as the 1200 reman goes, low volume would be the reason not to do it? Isnt the Sporty Harleys #1 selling bike? I believe they sell more sportys than all of the Bigtwins combined. That would mean a hell of a lot of potential customers out on the road. I think its as Bill pointed out, the bottom line $$. Everybody & their brother has a shop that will slap new cylinders & pistons & clean up the heads on a sporty for about $1000. You know Harley isnt going to touch that figure. | ||
| Bomber |
sorry gregg, but I was speaking quickly (as usual) and left out some stuff (again, as per usual) . . .. .low volume refers to the number of folks who'd pay big dough for a re-manufactured engine from HD for a Sporty or Buell . . . . . . Looking at the demographics, alot of the dentists who have bought big twins over the last decade would likely pop for a new HD engine (with their Screaming Eagle accessories hung off the outside). .. . most sporty riders wouldn't, so, as both Dave G and you and Bill say, it's a bottom line thing . .. when you have your choice of 20 or 30 business lines to found, I know I'd choose the most profitable, which I would think would the the big-twin owning dentist . . . . . nuthing wrong with turning a profit, I say . . . . good for them personnally, | ||
| Court |
Bill: Without taking time (I don't have the luxury at the moment) of wading through the BS and urban legends, let me REPEAT what I said before. Buell Motorcycle Company DESIGNS and SELLS motorcycles at East Troy, WI. ALL Buell motorcycles are sold to Buell Distribution Corporation (a DIFFERENT company and a wholly owned subsidiary of Harley-Davidson) upon being rolled out the door in East Troy. Harley-Davidson Motor Company, owner of 98% of Buell common stock has, what is arguably, the world's most developed motorcycle accesories and dealer distribution network. For Buell to "reinvent the wheel" would be a poor use of capital, both financial and human. Harley-Davidson, ergo, handles ALL parts and accesories. CURRENT PRODUCTION BUELL PARTS: are KEPT at East Troy where they are convnenient to the production process which consumes about 50 per day. Parts orders are shipped, upon receipt of an order from HARLEY-DAVIDSON parts order system. NON-CURRENT PRODUCTION BUELL PARTS: Are maintained in inventory at Harley-Davidson's world class Franklin facility and are shipped from that location. Salient points: 1) Buell is doing a spectacualrly improved job of providing parts in a timely manner. 2) Buell has a world-class system in place, supporting the supposition that things will likely get better as time passes. 3) The "tube frame" Buell share many engine and other components with the Harley-Davidson Sportster (one of history's most produced motorcycles), thus insuring parts availability well into the future. 4) Asking someone "at the Buell factory" where your part you ordered is akin to asking George Bush where your unemployment check is. Doens't mean that Buell is, per se' "not involved", only that they are at the point in the process where it's going to be the toughest to provide an accurate answer. 5) HINT: (based on experience) MOST the problems I have seen with orders that "Buell screwed up" were orders that NEVER (as in the recent fairing bracket) got placed. This is not to infer malfeasance, but, more often, simple oversight. EXAMPLE: The Buell dealer near me (where I have not set foot in 4 years) writes Buell parts orders down on a page. When the page is filled they place the order. "Page filling", given skimply order volume, could take several months. Hence the statement "we've placed the order" might mean entirely different things to you (it's on the way) and the dealer (we wrote it down). HINT: ASK QUESTIONS. If you ordered a part from Buell and haven't received it in a week, ASK MORE QUESTIONS...somethings not right. I hope this helps..... Back to life. Court | ||
| Dynarider |
5) HINT: (based on experience) MOST the problems I have seen with orders that "Buell screwed up" were orders that NEVER (as in the recent fairing bracket) got placed. This is not to infer malfeasance, but, more often, simple oversight. ================================================== Please explain to me how the woman at Buell knew about the order then? She knew his name, where he ordered it, etc. If it was "never ordered" who could someone at Buell possibly know he needed one? I know they are Elves up there, but I didnt think they were psychic as well. Someone call Miss Cleo & let her know she has some new prospects in East Troy  | ||
| Court |
Just a frickin' amazin' world, eh? Equally amazing, is that someone said Buell was "making" the part. Sometimes the internet, like a bar brawl, is more bullshit than substance. There was no order placed. Perhaps someone will produce a receipt and prove me wrong. I maintain that the ONLY time that dealer has EVER placed an order for a Buell fairing bracket was October 23, 2001. Get a copy of that receipt and call me back.  Court | ||
| Bomber |
just to try and act as a translator in what has become a slogan-shouting match . . . . . . I have no idea if an order was placed . . . .don't care . . . . neither does the person who needed(s) the part, I'm guessin . . . I DO know a lady in East Troy claimed to know of the needed part, and the need for it, and the person who needed it (how this information could get to this lady without an order being placed is a question to which I have no answer . . . .)(nor, again, is it, I suspect, of interest to the owner of the scoot with the bent part) This conversation has broken into two camps, the way it looks here . . .. . . one camp that tells a tail of a part that was "ordered" by paying a dealership for it, and not receiving the part . . . .the other camp tells an interesting tail of no order being generated (from the factory's point of view) . . . . . . while interesting, these folks have ceased speaking directly to one another, and insisting that each use the terminology of the other . . . .sheesh . . . . merry christmas, folks, and god yule . . . .. give a rest, would be my suggestion . . . .. and that's a sincere hope, not bulls*t, internet, barbrawl, or otherwise | ||
| Nevco1 |
Court... Thanks for clarifying the issue. I know this is what you said in earlier posts. However, this time you edited out the superfluous commentary and it was much easier to follow. Additionally, as I have posted in the past, I have had extremely satisfying experiences both with my dealer and the availability/pricing of parts from the Franklin warehouse. Needless to say, I am pleased to learn this will continue. Happy Holidays!!! Bill | ||
| Nevco1 |
DaveGess... Excellent point about John Deere and the kitting of parts. This has been my experience with many automobile, motorcycle, lawn tractor and snowblower applications. However, the parts always related to the same (not different) models. I personally like the concept as it is cost effective. IE: The individual parts cost less in kit form and the additional parts are most likely the next to fail after said repair is made. Thanks for your input! Happy Holidays, Bill | ||
| Nevco1 |
Dyna, Bads, Bomber, et al... The only laws that I have found support the aftermarket. In essence, they provide for availability of competitively priced replacement (not performance improving) parts. Anything I have heard in the past concerning a length of time a manufacturer is responsible for providing replacement parts has been undocumented hearsay. The reason I requested my relatives to have their students research the issue is to hopefully get a finite answer. I personally don't care what the answer is, I just want to know what tools I have to work with should the need arise. Of interest, the automotive aftermarket appears to provide both OEM clone and performance parts. Whereas, the motorcycle aftermarket tends to be predominately custom and performance oriented. Ergo, it appears that we are dependent upon the motorcycle manufacturers to keep our bikes "Street Legal." Like any of ours are...LMAO!!! Happy Holidays and pray for global warming!!! Bill | ||
| Bomber |
Bill . . .. . . damnbetcha! Thanks for the additional data point . . . .. bottom line is, if there is a sufficient demand, someone will meet it with a supply . . .. . got the metal butchering equipment set up over the weekend . . .. nice long break coming up . . . . hmmmmmm | ||
| Nevco1 |
Bomber... Now why do I get the impression that you are running low on Scotch??? LMAO | ||
| Bomber |
nah, but I DO feel like making somthing . . .. . got anything needs maching, brer bill? | ||
| Dynarider |
Sometimes the internet, like a bar brawl, is more bullshit than substance ================================================== You know something? I could understand that statement if I hadnt actually witnessed & heard what transpired there with my own eyes & ears. If it was 2nd hand knowledge, then sure the internet is full of Bullshit. But I am telling everyone that something stinks in this whole deal. I dont give a shit what Buell now claims happened or didnt happen to an order that either was or wasnt placed. Simple fact was this women knew who he was & what he needed, & that it was on the schedule to be produced. There is no way in hell this ever could have happened unless the order was either placed, or she truly is psychic. Myself, Bomber, & Roger were right there when she said it. Are we all full of bullshit too? Damn Court dont be so blind that you cant see something definately went amiss here & the person who got the short end of the stick is or at least was a loyal Buell patron. | ||
| Nevco1 |
Dyna... As you know, I wasn't there but having lead a million factory tours as a sales/marketing exec, I can assure you that the supervisors and folks on the line will say anything positive when queried. In essence, they are not lying, they are just assuming that all involved in the transaction are acting responsibly. In which case, Roger should have received his part soon after ordering it with the dealer. I know this is not an factual explanation of what happened. However, if you take into account the system as Court describes it, it is feasible. | ||
| Dynarider |
Bill, she knew his name. He never told her, she knew it & knew what he ordered. She couldnt have pulled that outta thin air. | ||
| Nevco1 |
Oh well, that was just conjecture and you know how much trouble I get into when I do that. Right Blake??? | ||
| S320002 |
Wow! A non-existent fairing bracket could be the most famous part Buell never produced! I have a story to add to the parts availability thing. Last year I found enough new parts in an Iowa town of less than 5,000 to rebuild the top end on a 50 year old International H tractor. Didn't even have to buy parts or gaskets I didn't need. If I live another 45 years I bet I'll be able to find enough parts to fix my 1997 S3. Greg | ||
| Rick_A |
In my experience I've ordered several odd parts at different dealerships for my S1...and typically got them within a week. | ||
| Nevco1 |
Rick... I gotcha beat!!! I deal with Hal's which is three miles from my house and about another 15 to the Franklin distribution center. Hal's, for the sake of good business practices, normally has what I want in stock, but when they don't, it is only two days for the part to arrive. Of interest, the biggest hold up is Hal's receiving department due to the volume of stuff they receive daily. However, once received, I get a nice call from them advising that I can come pick it up. NOW THAT'S WHAT I CALL SERVICE !!!!! | ||
| Court |
Buell parts delivery is well on it's way to being among the best. Funny thing. . . I have very little problem getting parts for my 1952 711 Highlander. |
