| Author | Message | ||
     Eeeeek |
In all honesty, if htey did come out with that bike and it was even close to on par with the other superbikes, I would still not buy a first year model. I've made that mistake before... Vik | ||
| Court |
I always thought that until Ford provided me with a prototype F-250HD Supercab. I took it, ostensibly for 2 weeks. When the time came to give it back I refused and had already had my "goodies" installed. 108,000+ miles later and I took it in for an annual inspection a while back and the guy thought it was a new vehicle (okay, so I wax the engine....I'm anal retentive) I've never been happier with a vehicle in my life. There's a new car on the way, but the truck (along with it's window sticker marked "vehicle not for sale" STAYS ! I agree that as a generalization one would exercise elevated care, but it is, in the end, a generalization. Manufactuers are well aware that "you only get one chance to make a good first impression". Let me guess, some of you don't buy bikes made on Friday, either  . Court | ||
| Redstripe |
Guys, Talking of the aforementioned bike, We'll just have to wait and see, won't We? The press releases kinda make me think of all those marvellous bikes once dreamt up, perhaps even produced, and then dying a sudden death. -which we don't hope, off course. we wish them best of luck!- To name but a few; -Laverda, with a fully developed three cilinder bike. -Bimota, with the V-due concept. These bikes were all bought back from the owners, or to choice, exchanged for a YB 11. -Britten, later even contemplated as the engine for a revived Indian. -Norton Nemesis, this would have been the most powerful production bike ever?. -That Australian V-eight which I don't remember the name of. -Morbidelli V-eight. -Apparently production of the Munch Mammoth has seized again? -Thierry Henriette's Voxan Boxer. That's a great bike! I could probably think of a few more, yet not too bad for a guy my age, right?  It is however a misconception that Aprilia took "a little while" to come up with the RSV Mille and it's engine. The bike had been a prototype for quite a while longer then is common knowledge. Aprilia just had the funds to be able to develope the entire bike pre-release, due to their marvellous sales in the moped-scooter department. -not having to raise funds from the sale of it, in itself- The MV F4 for instance should have been a Ducati! It was originally concepted as a Ducati 4 cilinder bike, mostly financed by TPG when they took over Ducati due to financial problems. -or so I reckon for the financial part- The workers at Ducati weren't paid, even when they were able to deliver the, then new, Ducatis to eager new owners. The orders were there... That's typical Italian mismanagement for Ya! Then when the Castiglioni brothers seperated, they took the 4 cilinder bike while still having the rights to the MV brand-name. J. | ||
| Lake_Bueller |
I just can't get the idea of a liquid cooled Buell out of my head. Forget the V-Rod engine. I'm talking a liquid version of the XB engine. Put the radiator under the seat like Britten. It seems the most logical location given Erik's "mass centralization" theme. Run an additional air duct on the right side (to match the ram intake on the left) to provide the airflow over the radiator. It's already a "proven" technology; you can keep the "naked" look; seems to fit into Erik's idealization. I can't think why it wouldn't work. In the meantime, I'll keep on loving my "klunker" engines from Milwaukee that are married to my beautiful neaked bikes from East Troy  | ||
| Peter |
-That Australian V-eight which I don't remember the name of. Drysdale. Looks like they are in production. PPiA | ||
| Elvis |
If I was going to modify the current engine, I would go to a different valve system that allows higher reving before I went to water cooling (are we opening a can of worms?) | ||
| José_Quiñones |
The company that holds the Patent on the "under the seat" radiator design is Harley Davidson........ Benelli is currently using this setup in their Tornado. Imagine a little fan assisted radiator sitting where the fan is right behind the rear cylinder on the current XB frame.... What to do to the current XL based engine? If if was up to me I would not use it in Buells at all, but I understand the need to keep the price down by using the same tooling for the Sportsters and the Buells. #1 Balance it, and watch the warranty claims go to near zero..... #2 Spread the angle to 60 degrees like S&S is doing for their prototype Buell Drag Bike, which will allow you to use a bigger bore. This would also make the engine shorter top to bottom. If they go to a primary gear drive like the VROD instead of a chain like now they could also make it shorter front to back. #3 use top quality valve guide seals, o-rings instead of gaskets, and related assembly components. #4 either bring the trap door back or just stick a six speed tranny like the Pro Thunder bikes were using I could go on, but I won't....... | ||
| José_Quiñones |
If you watched the Discovery Channel show about the VRod, they talked about a special test that they wanted the engine to pass, this review of the VROD mentions the following about it:
I wonder how many hours current XL and the XB engines do before they go bang? Hopefully more than 200 hours. So I add #5: #5 I would make sure that it would do at least 201 hours on that test! | ||
| Mikej |
"... by using the same tooling for the Sportsters and the Buells. " Rumors persist of a new Sportster engine coming. Might be the XB engine, might not. "... bring the trap door back ... " Please do. "... stick in a six speed tranny ..." Pretty please. I've asked about a trap door on XB engines. Might be doable to the general public, or might come under the classification of the belly pans and you might need a racing license to get the right parts. Could become a short-run aftermarket offering complete with a machinist's template in the kit to the right aftermarketer. Don't know how viable of a product it would be though due to the cost to the buyer. | ||
| Redstripe |
That's the one, Pete, thanks. -but then, you're older than me- I must, however oppose Kerryx1; "So have a merry sail to the far East to buy Your super techno-rockets." Judging by anyone's standards, mr. Honda or Suzuki must once have been the same day-dreaming fools? Better still; They grew out to be world-leading motorcycle manufacturers! These bikes don't sell in large numbers for nothing; great bikes combined with bullet-proof reliability. -well, most of 'em anyway- Credit where credit is due, my friend... Now don't get me wrong; I decided to buy a Buell in a country where it's hard, nay, impossible to find a decent Buell dealer and haven't even got the smallest of mechanical knowledge some of the other forummembers have. And yes, I've had/have loads of difficulty maintaining the bike in perfect nick because of some of the typical "Buell-gripes". -I do, however, have this forum and lots of Buell involved friends, to give help along the way...- See? We're on the same team. J. | ||
| Racerboy |
Gotta post to this thread just so I can get the emails... José...Buell's market share fell 24% in a rising market... Court...I have tremendous respect for Erik or I would not have bought his product...I also have a very strong opinion that H-D does not now and never has understood his product or his market...I don't have the annual report handy so this quote will not be exactly accurate but a H-D executive stated in the annual report that Buell was a good fit for H-D because someday Buell riders would "move up" to a H-D...I don't think so, do you?...And they (H-D) have to currently have a tremendous impact on directing future Buell products as they're writing the checks and reporting to their stockholders... As for the Fischer, this is just plain good for American motorcycling...I ride, and probably most of you also ride, with guys and gals who would love to buy an "American" motorcycle but have felt for years that there has never been one that met their requirements...Well, there may now be one...As for me, relax the ergos a bit, design some easy off hard luggage and I'm there... See Ya! Bob | ||
| X1glider |
I'm sure the pushrod valvetrain is the cause of the failures. Wouldn't hurt my feelings any if it went away. I like it in my HD for traditional reasons but as time goes by I'm wishing the Buell was capable of more rpms. Like you said, we can go on and on and on... It's said that Erik chose the V-twin over inline 4 engines for what it is and what it can offer that inline 4's can't. And I agree. But I don't reacall reading that he chose the V-twin because he loves the pushrod valvetrain. 3 and 4 valve designs, which I believe are inevitable in HD/Buell future for emissions reasons, pose new and more difficult design challenges if pushrods are kept. | ||
| Mikej |
"move up" to a H-D That's old school thinking, kind of like Cadillac was doing for years until companies like Toyota came out with the Lexus then they were in for a rude awakening. I like H-D's and will probably get another one some day. But if and when I do I will not consider it a "move up", instead I will consider it simply a purchase of "another bike". And I will never buy a Lexus, just for the record. But I might buy an old pre-1962 Cadillac, the older the better as long as all the gadgets worked on it. | ||
| S320002 |
Stripe, Don't forget the Hunwick Hallam, now Hunwick Harrop. Their X bike did things for me that some super models never could. http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mcken/hunwick.html Greg | ||
| Bomber |
MikeJ your small-type caveat obsolved you of any responsibility to actually purchase an older caddy . . . .what a great get-out-of-jail-free card! | ||
| Court |
Many positive comments......this is getting kinda cool. "I also have a very strong opinion that H-D does not now and never has understood his product or his market" Very astute, but more importantly, is that, until just recently that didn't know that they didn't understand. They now do, have acted, are acting and I am quite comfortable, based on a couple recent events and appointments, that progress is being made and that real people (with names) are accountable for "learning Buellspeak". Expect to see, I say for the second time today, tangible results. Ditto at the dealer level. Until just recently Justin was a "salesman" and just look at him now, a frickin' Brand Specialist. All kidding aside, his dealer principal listened closely to a well thought out plan. He listened, learned and made a commitment to "buy in". He gave Mr. Schilling both responsibility and, the all to oft absent, authority to act. Witness (in the next 2 weeks) the first of the special made bikes. That's the tip of the HCHD iceberg; expect to see more good things. Same gig for the gang in Iowaaaaaa....far, far from real people and civilization, they too stepped up to the plate and decided to listen and learn. When DaveS showed up in Wisconsin a couple weeks ago, he had in tow a couple ApprentiDave's and he had their ears and eyes wide open. I, personally, am way big time thrilled with what I have been witnessing. I'm seeing more commitment, less lip service. Don't get me wrong on the Fisher deal; I think it's neat. I hope you will, however, understand that there is a part of me that has passed my acceptable threshold for the number of times someone, touting something new, introduces to me as "this is what Erik should have done", or "he's gonna show Erik how to do it". In the real world boys and girls, hungry babe, tuition and house payments figure into the equation. There are times I wish some of you were there and could have heard the way a banker spoke to Erik about 12 years ago. The wide chasm twinxt "dreamin' to doin" has swallowed up many a capable entrepreneur. Court | ||
| Racerboy |
Court...Erik should move to Minnesota...My god, what he could have done with all that E-H money...I've always wondered if Minn went out on the limb so far due to some Freudian envy of what was going on over in Wisconsin...Meanwhile, back at the Fischer... See Ya! Bob | ||
| Lake_Bueller |
Well said Court!!! While I too would like to see a true Buell "superbike", I also realize that the cost of such an exotic would be well beyond most of the Buell market's current owners. I would guess that will be the same if/when Fischer hits the market. You'll be looking at a price tag in the $15-$18k range (again, just my guess). How many people here have that kind of cake for a true "toy". Now before we get on the "that's what Harley gets for a used bike", you can't compare anything to a Harley. Period!! They're freaks of commerce nature. No other consumer product will hold or increase in value like a Harley-Davidson motorcycle. Now, I'm glad to see there are people out there that are starting to listen. Personally, I think they've been listening for a long time. It's the higher beings at the mother company that may finally be awakening from a slumber. I seem to remember there was a certain president of BMC named Jerry Wilke. Where is this young man now? He's the VP of marketing & sales for Harley-Davidson. I would venture to say that he's helping to shake things up at the mother company in relation to the Buell brand! On a closing note, I like to see more dealers as enthusiastic about Buells as Iowa & High Country. I've been to a number of dealers that know less about the Buell models than their customers. I'm not going to start pointing fingers but something needs to change on the sales front. IMHO, the main problem is that they are salesmen instead of Brand Specialists. They know the money is in the used Harley for $16k instead of the new (or used) Buell. But they still need to be able to explain the Buell philosophy of mass centralization and why that makes the Buell a superior bike. I think I've given more than my $.02 worth. Time to go home and hug my Buells! | ||
| Jscott |
I love the Firebolt and would love to have one. I would also like to see a 4 stroke watercooled Square Four in a Firebolt frame with a fullfairing, kicking everybody's butt on the race track. Then you would have new motor with ties to Buell's past. How bout that Nova motor, its not getting a whole lot of use. | ||
| X1glider |
That Hunwick bike is truly cool! Never heard of them before. The exposed timing belts scared me but I read further down that it is a freewheeling valvetrain. 1000cc and 170 HP! Yikes! I wonder how old that article is. I have a feeling more than a few years have passed. | ||
| X1glider |
Damn, the HH homepage link is a search engine now. I need more... | ||
| Nevco1 |
Court, I hope your "in two weeks" means I get to blow the dust off the old checkbook !!! | ||
| Chainsaw |
JQ said
My 2001 Sporty, 20,000+ miles. 3 rocker box leaks, none in the last 11,000 miles. Zero other problems. Are leaking gaskets a product of an unbalanced engine, or crappy gaskets?
With an average speed of, say 60 mph, (who knows for sure?) I've got 333+ hours on the engine. Environmental conditions ranging from 12 degrees to 110 degrees, WOT to idling in city traffic, -285 ft below sea level to 12,000 feet above. The only time my Sporty left me on the side of the road was when I ran it out of gas. The XL engine design is pretty damn reliable in my experience. Only time will tell for sure. | ||
| Eeeeek |
A sporty is nowhere near as stressed as a Buell. | ||
| Eeeeek |
"move up" to a H-D. I've only been watching the Buell market since '98. In that time, I've seen a lot of things happen. I've seen a few sportbike riders buy Buells and then return to traditional sportbikes. I've seen H-D owners buy Buells and then move back to H-D's. I've seen people become life long Buell fanatics and build stables. I've rarely seen someone "move up" to a H-D when they hadn't owned one before. My non-scientific talking out my ass assessment is that a lot of H-D owners have bought Buells, gotten a taste for sportbikes and then bought Hondas, Yamahas, Suzukis, Kawasaki's, Aprilias, Ducatis, etc. When I look at the list of Buell owners I've know over the years, I find that many of them have either sold their Buells and bought other brand superbikes or they Buell has take on the role of a secondary bike. Regardless of which, they have spend their recent money elsewhere. What's this say? To me it says they've "moved up," alright, just not to H-D's. I like the new XB9S. I think with it Buell has tapped back into their core market. Whether or not they choose to expand this market is up to them. Vik | ||
| Elvis |
Harley Davidson would have to drastically change their design philosphy before I would ever consider "moving up" to a HD. They would have to produce a small light bike with a short wheelbase and low center of gravity. . . hey, wait a minute. . .someone else is already doing that . . . | ||
| Vwolf |
Move up to Harley I would like to see a Buell with a V-Rod engine..that was my first thought when I demo ran a V-Rod. Sounds very simple to me but what do I know. I am 6.6 250lbs so a bigger bike if nessasary would not hurt me any..Besides when I ride a like to do slides---- with my tail..mainly because my M2 has a very bad rear wheel hop..and I am getting good at it. I think do to the Factory shock I will upgrade that soon. Vwolf | ||
| Court |
rarely seen someone "move up" to a H-D when they hadn't owned one before. Well put Vik. To quote one of my favorite speakers...ME! "We have long ago saturated the affluent "Softail crossover" crowd, those HD enthusiasts with sufficient means to purchase a "sportbike" out of curiosity or for a teenage son". "Please listen closely and don't take offense to what I am about to tell you. Most, and that is a qualified MOST, the Buell owners I know, if they won a Harley-Davidson in a contest, would sell the motorcycle. Most the Harley-Davidson owners I know, if they won a Buell in a contest, would sell the motorcycle. Having Buell and Harley-Davidson aboard the mother ship is not a "zero sum" equation in that there are benefits, not altogether apparent initially, poised to flow to, and benefit, the Harley-Davidson business model. Buell, the motorcycle and the company, represents a new, and welcome marginal demographic, to the HD Corporate family. We, as businesspersons and merchants must roll out the red carpet through the door they are coming in through, even if it is not the one we have greeted our traditional customer at. Although, Buell and Harley-Davidson interests may, at times, be divergent, they are rarely in conflict. I will show you today how to leverage this phenomenon, appreciate the Buell cultural demographic and owner and show you how to ADD an entirely new source of revenue to your business, not simply move it around like chasing an oiled balloon on a linoleum floor" I am thrilled about some of the changes that are taking place. I am seeing some things that, in my mind's eye, have the power to change the sport. Buell, gads I totally dig this XB9S, means FUN again! And, for what it's worth in this forum, I have a very high regard for Jerry Wilke. When many around him were intent on "clipping" me, he supported me and allowed me to champion some incredible feats of customer service, as many of you recall. Court | ||
| José_Quiñones |
Chainsaw,
Mostly improper assembly procedures in that case. I talked about the gaskets in my #3 (o-rings instead of gaskets) On the hours thing, I mean hours running the Dusseldorf test, which what HD used to test the VROD engine. Not actual street hours. The VROD lasted past 500 hours, a Road King lasted 200 and a softail lasted 150 before going bang in this test, according to the quote above. | ||
| José_Quiñones |
That Hunwick Harrop bike is cool, thanks for the link Greg! |
