| Author | Message | ||
     Dbf |
I posted this in the KV, just thought I would throw it in here as well. Hope the mods don't frown on it too much. Yesterday, I installed a used original on my 12Ss. I never upgraded the air flow or ECM. My question is, do I have to upgrade the ECM to match the new can? I was under the impression the stock ECM can make the adjustments to the AFR. Dan   | ||
| Odinbueller |
Rule of thumb is to use the race ECM & high flow air cleaner element for performance exhaust upgrades. You need to balance out the flow of more exhaust exiting the engine by flowing more air & fuel into the engine, as this will typically create a lean condition. The AFV will not be too affected by this, but you may run too rich based on the feedback the O2 sensor is giving to the stock ECM with stock air filter element. The high flow air cleaner will allow the air/fuel mixture to balance out, but the race ECM will compensate whenever you are running in open loop. This is just a theory, as I haven't done any long term testing on this kind of setup, but based on my understanding of the DDFI system, I believe this to be correct. I'm sure anyone with a bit more experience in this area will correct me if I'm off. Chris | ||
| Kds1 |
Dan, The Drummer you have is the 9 design and will run fine without the ecm and filter.... Kevin www.kdfab.com | ||
| Odinbueller |
My mistake. Not much experience with the Drummer  | ||
| Dbf |
Yah Chris, that is what I suspected. With less restriction on the discharge side, it only makes sense to allow more more air/fuel on the intake. I guess the question is, will the stock ECM handle the slight variance in exhaust flow by compensating more fuel/air on the intake. If it does, the bike should never lean itself out to the point where damage may occur. But you know, thinking back to my racing days (I started on 2 strokers when I was pretty young), power was made, not only by less restrictive mufflers, but by increasing the flow through both sides of the engine. I remember using surgical gauze soaked in mineral oil wrapped around foam. To me, my set up should be fine, as long as the DDFI system cooperates!! Maybe in time I'll spring for an ECM and filter to 'close the loop'. I knew the can I bought was a 9 design, Kevin. The fella I bought it from told me that. You fellas at KD Fab should be proud of the products you make. I'm astounded at the difference it made, I'd like to see what some of your other mufflers sound like!! Dan | ||
| Cataract2 |
It will work, but you would gain more smiles per mile with a new ECM and filter. | ||
| Odinbueller |
That's what I thought, but I wasn't sure with the Drummer. No real damage, but a better running condition with hi-flo & ECM. The DDFI system is pretty smart, but still an AlphN system (state of the art in the late 70's). Let us know how it goes after a few miles (it may be a pain, but check your plugs), and if you need a hi-flo & ECM, let me know, we offer discounts to BadWeb members | ||
| Lovematt |
I ran a Drummer with the stock ECM and K&N filter for about 4 months...it seemed to be fine but there were times when it popped a bit more than I liked and the idle was a little more erratic than I would have liked...but then again it was at about 8000 miles and was probably due for a TPS reset. I then put on the Race ECM and had the TPS reset...the idle settled right down and I swear the bike just felt better at all revs probably because it was getting more fuel. The popping reduced a lot as well. Your mileage should not go down by switching to the Race ECM...if anything it should go up. Mine did. Oh yeah...I changed my plugs right before the Race ECM switch and they were barely even darkened from white. Just changed the plugs and they were a nice light tan color...proves to me it was running a bit lean before the Race ECM. (Message edited by lovematt on January 23, 2006) | ||
| Jerseyguy |
"My mistake. Not much experience with the Drummer." Chris - We need to change that this spring! Have you seen the Drummer SS on my new Ss? - Anthony has. Next time I stop at Liberty, I'll come and get you. We have several HD/Buell shops selling them dealer installed on new bikes. Lovematt - I had a similar experience on my 9. | ||
| Cmm213 |
Dbf if you are planning on getting a ecm and filter wait a few weeks because DaveS and AL from American Sport Bike are close to getting the direct link software spot on. I'm not positive if you can remap the stocker but I'm going to send him my race ecm to be remapped to what mods I have. Means no more screwing around with a tfi or pcIII. Just thought I would through that out there. | ||
| Dbf |
Thanks for that ^^^^. I don't know what I'll do yet...winter has finally set in, so I suspect my riding days in January are over! I have to chat with my dealership to get the skinny on warranty implications and son on. I'll update when I find out more. Dan | ||
| Opto |
It'll run fine on the XB12 with the stock ecm and air filter. Spend any loose cash on a K&N air filter and call it a day. The XB9 stock ecm is a different animal to the XB12 stock ecm, I feel the gains from fitting a race ecm to an XB12 are a lot less than fitting a race ecm on an XB9. I've also seen better fuel mileage from an XB12 with original Drummer and K&N and stock ecm than a race kitted XB9 on the same run, same fuel stops. We definitely weren't riding for fuel mileage but maybe it was because I don't weigh as much... | ||
| Dbf |
^^^^ Opto^^^^, your comments are interesting. I have heard that you can get away with the stock ECM and filter when matched with an after market can, but any changes to the intake requires an upgraded ECM. Any way, I dropped in to my stealership today and just as I thought, the service manager really did not think it was a good idea, based on warranty principles. I can understand that...even if there is a 99.99% chance of nothing happening, what about the .01%? If I did run it the way it was and something did happen, of course HD is going to balk, they have to. So, the million dollar question now is, will the Buell race ECM support the drummer (with an air filter)? No sense f*cking around, I just dropped 16 grand (I live in Canada!!) on this bike and I cannot afford to treat it like a Hyundai. Any ideas? And BTW, I brought the rusted stocker in for the boys to look at. They are going to see what happens now. The muffler only had 5800 kms (3625 miles) on it and it is approaching pretty severe rust damage. Dan (Message edited by dbf on January 24, 2006) | ||
| Opto |
Lots of people run the race ecm with the original Drummer and love it, no problems. If your service manager is happy for you to run a Drummer with a race ecm (versus full race kit) then I guess the answer is obvious if you want a hassle free warranty and peace of mind... |
