| Author | Message | ||
     Ferris |
roadracingworld.com 11/1/2002 Erik Buell Comments on BMW Boxer Cup Replacing Pro Thunder At Daytona Erik, you are The Man. FB | ||
| Rick_A |
Noise is a type of emmision, is it not? I think our aircooled engines will be alive and well for some time to come. I really don't care to see a Buell or Harley race replica. I think grassroots racing is more exciting than that "world class" racing I won't ever relate to in anyway. My favorite classes to follow are those with bikes closer to real streetbikes. Harley developed the VR1000 just for racing...they developed the V-Rod for the street. Aside from basic configuration the two have little in common. H-D is obviously following a tangent, but it's one that Buell has never shown interest in. I understand your viewpoint but IMO Buell has and will do just fine with their current philosophies. | ||
| Blake |
Nev, Please enlighten me concerning the problems that an air cooled engine cannot overcome towards meeting future stringent EPA emissions requirements. Never mind. I'll save you the trouble. There are NONE. You've fallen victim to a very popular myth. Ever hear of a catalytic converter? LOTS of other bikes, especially those for sale in California, have 'em. Why don't Buells?  Answer: Buells meet the strict CA emissions requirements just fine without a catalytic converter. Funny how the liquid cooled bikes need them though. Low revving long stroke engines like H-D/Buell utilize are inherently more efficient and less polluting than high revving short stroke engines. You may have heard that the looser tolerances between piston and cylinder allow unburned fuel (hydrocarbons) to blow past the rings and thus make their way out of the engine to pollute the air. Wrong. Blowby is routed back into the intake to be cycled through the engine until it does get burned. Please tell all your friends. JQ, Any comments on Erik's commentary of Pro-Thunder racing. Interesting to here him echo what I had suspected all along. Buell didn't try to influence the rules at all. Buell was in it to support grass roots racing. Buell was surprised that the AMA allowed the 748's into the class. Nevco1, You think Buell developed the XB9R for Pro Thunder racing? I don't think so. What "farm" exactly do you imagine that Buell wagered on Pro Thunder racing?  | ||
| Blake |
Thank you for articulating with such frankness and clarity the unfortunate state of what has become AMA Pro-Racing. Go WERA!!! Go FUSA/CCS!!! And another A'MEN to Jerry Wood for setting the record straight, once and for all. There can be absolutely no doubt left... AMA Pro Racing is run by a bunch of shiftless idiots. | ||
| Nevco1 |
Blake... Thanks for your insight concerning the emissions issue. You are correct in that I fell prey to the catalytic converter, lean running, unobtainium metal, liquid cooled myth. As you know, I was relating to CARB 2008 and the EPA's likely acceptance of it for federal use. Concerning the Firebolt, I did indeed believe that it was developed for the Pro Thunder Series and was quite pleased with the results on the track. Furthermore, due to the commonality of parts, I used the term "derivative" to describe the new Lightning. It appears I also made an error in my assumption that Buell, like other manufacturers, followed the theory that if you have a class winner, you create sales. Concerning my "betting the farm" comment, this related to the time and money invested in developing the Firebolt and the disappointing Pro Thunder decision. Am glad to hear that the other organizations will pick up the slack. Thanks again for the information. Guess now all I will do is sit back see what happens. | ||
| José_Quiñones |
I'll let the following speak for themselves: In 2001, AMA decided to change the Pro Thunder Rules regarding the Ducatis late in the game, when people had already spent money building 800cc Ducati bikes for the Pro Thunder Championship. You can read all the details over here Here is what Erik Buell said about that at the time in January 2001...
Erik Buell, October 2002:
Hmm, I wonder if the Buell Lurker saw MY LINK to this post here on Oct. 28 and passed up the chain....
.....
_______________________________________________________________ On the VR1000 and racing philosopy in general:
......
John Baker on the VR1000, ,Nov 2001 issue of RRW. Erik Buell, October 2002:
Ironic, isn't it? | ||
| José_Quiñones |
Playing devils advocate, I can see why the AMA is going this way, it's simple really: They want the race classes to mirror what bikes are actually selling Can you buy 250 two stroke street legal bikes? NO, so there is not that much fan appeal for this class. Can you buy 1350cc pushrod air cooled fully faired street legal American bikes? NO NO and NO, so there is not that much fan appeal for this class. Can you buy street legal Ducati 748's, BMW Twins, Japanese/Brittish inline 600's and multiple brand Japanese Inline 1000's? YES, so that's what they want to race with. | ||
| José_Quiñones |
According to the AMA:
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| José_Quiñones |
Well as long as the rule changes were meant to keep the factory Buells competitive, he didn't care what the Ducati teams had to go through, did he? The AMA made a HUGE mistake allowing the 748, it turned it into a Ducati Spec series and that eventually killed the class. If you were not on a Factory Ducati or Buell, you had no hope on your privateer Duc, Buell, SV650 and whatever else decided to show up. | ||
| Court |
>>>Can you buy street legal Ducati 748's And, in your opinion, how closely do these mirror what I can walk into Manhattan Ducati and buy? I bought a 748S for a friend last year. Cute bike, but uncomfortable and generally a poor choice of street bike. I told him that in advance, he found it out, and sold the bike, 3 months later. I'm not sure I'd WANT to buy a "real racebike" for the street any more than I'd want to drive Craig Breedlove's Spirit of America to work. I dropped my AMA membership years ago. Face it, these guys are politicians, not motorcyclists. Additionalky, they've proven themselves not to be particularly bright or accomplished promoters. We turn out more for a church BBQ than they do for the Daytona 200. Looks like you and I are of the same mind on this one. Court | ||
| Snowdave |
I am in complete agreement with Erik. Next summer will be my first year racing and I will do so on a Buell in CCS. I have always considered AMA Pro-Racing as premier (in this country anyway) and would have loved to at least get a shot at one AMA race. It sounds like the original pro-thunder concept would have been great for all involved. Moto Guzzi, BMW, Buell, Harley, Monsters, etc. Competitive without dropping a ton of money to keep up with much faster bikes, i.e. Water Cooled Ducatis. If the AMA wants to go this "new" direction, we should start heavily petitioning to bring GP racing over here. I don't care if I can't buy those bikes, if you aren't going to have races that the common AMA member could aspire to, then you should just go 100% the opposite direction and give us racing that is completely extreme, at least it would fill the seats. | ||
| José_Quiñones |
to the "untrained eye" a street legal Ducati 748 is much closer to the race bike than a Firebolt is to the Hal's Pro Thunder Buell. Chassis wise, the Buell was probably closer to stock than the Ducs, but engine wise, both were very modified. It's a horrible street bike, I agree and have said so before, but it's an excellent race bike designed to win races and championships. Mission accomplished! | ||
| José_Quiñones |
I disagree, what is everybody riding these days?? Look at the sales charts. R1's, GSXR1000's ZX9's, CBRwhatevers, and all the 600's. WAY more of these are sold than Buells, so that's what AMA wants to race with. | ||
| José_Quiñones |
If Buell wants to race with the APPLES in AMA racing and be on TV and all that, how about building an APPLE, and not show up with an ORANGE and try to get the AMA to change the rules to keep you competitive? Apples racing Apples, what a concept! | ||
| Court |
>>>Apples racing Apples, what a concept! I agree. And, in the same vein, PLEASE give me an ORANGE for the mean streets of Gotham, the backroads of the USA and the REAL roads. I ride a motorcycle. I do not race. Trying to play "racer" on the street is what trashed 10 Buells at Deal's Gap and has a couple Bueller's still in the hospital. Submarines do not fly. Learn to match the tool and the use. Rediculous. Court | ||
| José_Quiñones |
I agree completely Court. But how do you explain why Buell has insisted on trying to race an ORANGE in the AMA???? Rediculous!!! If I was Buell I would be tring to figure out a way to find enough money to convince Speedvision, Fox, CBS, NBC or even ABC to televise the F.USA series next year. At least there the rules make sense and the Buells are racing other Buells, and a stock displacement 1000cc Buell is allowed to race against the race rep 600's. | ||
| Rick_A |
I really don't care what everybody is riding...or racing. I like what I ride and I'd like to see people racing 'em! Close minded and unrealistic, maybe...but that's what I like. Pro Thunder was the only class I had much interest in AMA. I just wish the other organizations had as much exposure (of the good kind.). | ||
| Court |
Anybody here capable of printing or plotting some large pictures from the high resolution pictures at www.teamelves.com? If so, drop me a note. Court | ||
| Xgecko |
If you read the follow up article to Erik's the guy who set out the original rules for the ProThunder wanted it to be aircooled and simple bikes the AMA had other Ideas. It's sad that the AMA is only interested in trying to be the Premier Motorcycle class in the World because they will always fall short. I admit that 600's interest me mostly because the bikes are all the same and it's realy the rider that wins. The rest of the classes in this years AMA don't interest me much and I will be happy to watch the spec classes in Japan that the GP instead | ||
| Pdxs3t |
Court, What is the wanted size of the pictures you are looking to have printed? I can do 8x10 on my HP photo printer. Jim | ||
| Phillyblast |
Court, ping me I have access to several high res color printers and an engineering plotter at work. Good to be an admin. Josh, Get help. You obviously have come down with a terrible case of Buellbuying-itis. The only known cure is to go cold turkey. Should this condition persist, I will be forced, as a friend, to perform an intervention and confiscate the bikes in question until sanity returns. I'm also extremely jealous, because I haven't put more than 100 miles on the S2 since the Team Elves trip - haven't had the time to get new tires and change the oil, etc. JQ, Those earlier quotes do nothing to discredit EB - he was taking his own advice, keeping in contact with the AMA, not waiting for the rule book to come out, and still got screwed. He acted like a professional, and expected a "professional" organization to do the same. They did not. I don't see Buell the Co. ever building a race rep, it's too easy to get bent over by the sanctioning body. It's been happening since the days of the RW. Build a bike for a class, class gets eliminated. So you build street bikes first and foremost, and then find a place to race them. But please don't ask Buell, the Co. or the man, to sacrifice the things that make the bikes great on the street to try and fit some arbitrary and ephemeral racing classification. EB, Good on ya! | ||
| Rick_A |
What I don't understand is why the AMA went to a BMW spec series after all the bull they were talking about Pro Thunder. Is it a matter of $$? Politics?? | ||
| Reepicheep |
On a side note about the Erik quotes, I think it was good to hear him talk about Harley and Buell sharing a lot of similar values. We give the mother company a lot of crap about chrome heel guards and such, and we we don't have a lot of good experiences in Harley shops, but its good to be reminded that both Harley and Buell "get it" and share a lot of common values. Erik knew that the pro thunder sponsorship made no financial sense, but thought it would be really cool to do anyway, and that it was important to try and keep grassroots racing alive. He indicated that Willie G and Harley would probably sign on by following EXACTLY the same reasoning. Harley (and no doubt Buell) is a big corporate beuracracy like any other. But with interviews like this, its VERY cool to be reminded that deep inside both companies still beats a heart of true motorcyclists with honesty, vision and passion. | ||
| Buelliedan |
Aaron, Josh and Dan(me) sitting in a small room together.... Josh says, "My name is Josh and I am a Buellaholic." Aaron and Dan say, "Hi Josh!" Aaron is the president and Buelliedan is the vice. You can be our sergeant at arms. Court is of course the "Court" jester!! The first step is to admit we are powerless!!  | ||
| Court |
>>>Court is of course the "Court" jester!! As a former owner of 4 Buells and possessor of 6 at the same time, I'm qualified. Hehehehe..and to think, that was before you ever HEARD of Buells | ||
| Smitty |
Does anyone know how I can get the euro headlight switch for Buells? | ||
| Jimjib |
Im trying to fix a fuel leak on my 883 and need some quick advice..Im not familar with this carb and have no manual at the moment. Fuel is gushing out from around the little rubber boot on the accelarator pump...Im assuming there is a seal somewhere that has let go...any help would be appreaciated. | ||
| Jima4media |
About all we can do about this AMA racing situation is vote with our wallets. I'm cancelling my AMA membership, and subscribing to Road Racing World. Erik Buell did get screwed again by the AMA racing organization, and there is not a lot that he can do about it politically. It's not like you can vote these guys out of office every four years. This is American, we are talking about the American Motorcyclist Association, and we are talking about the only American manufacturer of sporting motorcycles. You'd think some sort of arrangement could be make. Or is the AMA racing organization just being bought off by Germans, Italians and Japanese? Jim X-2.5 | ||
| Peter |
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| Buelliedan |
Court, Actually I have been wanting a Buell ever since 1989 when I saw a blue RS1200 in Honolulu, HI cruising down Hwy 1. I was hooked from that moment on!! |
