| Author | Message | ||
     Snowdave |
Disregard above post, got a Blast harness on accident. Hopefully I will be able to get it exchanged. Dave | ||
| Blake |
LOL. They are playing a joke on you eh? | ||
| Blake |
Final Round of Canadian Thunder Costa Kicks Ass on his XB9R! Wins race, finishes 3rd in series! Congrats Costa Mouzouris!!!   How glorious is that! A season plagued by problems, and injury finishes with a come from behind win. Wooooohooooo!!!  Costa homes in on the leaders  Costa and his XB9R take a well deserved victory lap So that's two races that I know of that the XB9R has won (not counting the super hot-rod Pro Thunder bikes). Any more? | ||
| Blake |
Yeah José, you got me hooked on the Canadian Thunder series. Thanks. My favorite part of his report...
Strange Costa didn't really comment on the final configuration of his XB9R... Did he end up with the trick programmable Buell Race module? Did he revert to the stock headers? Enquiring minds want to know.  Hey Costa/Duhamel, ![:]](http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/clipart/proud.gif) Click HERE to register so we can all jabber at ya. We would be most honored! | ||
| Benm2 |
I'm thinking about going racing. I'd like to compete in D-superbike in WERA, and possibly the corresponding CCS class. I'd considered buying a used Honda hawk or an SV, but finances may dictate use of the M2. I have some concerns about the reliability of this bike racing, but what the hell. The main drivers are (1) I'd like to become a better rider and (2) my insurance after my last move (closer to Phila) is now over $1000 per year. I've successfully convinced my wife that racing is cheaper (shhh, don't tell her yet) and it certainly seems safer to me than riding around the Philly suburbs. Anyhow, I've got a wierd question. I'd like to REDUCE the displacement of the bike to the D-limit for air cooled twins to 883cc. Will stock 883 pistons work with thunderstorm heads? Does anyone have any idea what this combination would produce power-wise? I know that even in Lightning-class trim the Buells get stomped in C-superbike, where they're classed. I'd think it would be possible to build an 883 that would be competitive in D, though. And, with enough work it might also be close to the power limit for the Lightning class. Anyway, that's the idea. Any input appreciated. Also, if anyone's got any recommendations for prep (not safety wire stuff, applicable buell stuff) such as will the stock (recall) shock cut the mustard (for a dead-slow novice)? Does the buell belly pan fit around the supertrapp slip-on? (I've got the new one) Does anyone have a used tach, and/or buell number plate/fairing? How hard is it to bump start a buell? If the cylinders go on (883), will I have a detonation issue if I go to 11:1? And so on. Sorry for the long post, but I'm looking for that combination of experience and opinion that floats freely around here. Ben | ||
| X1glider |
You might want to look at the rules. CCS rules say that you can not decrease displacement to compete in other classes (all ccs classes) Don't know about WERA. Better check. Belly pan: it was designed to fit over the raceheader, it tucks in tighter. PLus the Buell race can is 16" long and a little smaller in diameter. Any longer and the pan will not fit over the combo. Blake is interested in my pan at the moment. We'll see if it pans out. (Bad one) Number plate, I have an S1 style plate available, at a reduced price. The bottom is ground away to clear the fork legs. I understand the S1 brackets layed the fairing back more than the X1. For rear number plates, get the 10 x 12 flat plates from a motocross dealer. Buell uses a whole different tailsection so rear plates don't exist from them. | ||
| Blake |
Ben, I'm not familiar with WERA classes. CCS however gives fairly good consideration in classing air cooled pushrod 2 valve/cyl twins. The XB9R with under 1000cc displacement is poised to wrest dominance from the SV650's in the light weight classes. No way I'd go down to an 883. If you are thinking of racing to win, get yourself an XB9R or an SV650. Otherwise, just go have fun. The bulk of the competition is decided by skill more than anything. In each class of the club racing scene you'll have a few actual experts and the rest somewhere between turtle and squid. A 490 LB bike with 60 RWHP isn't going to be much fun. Double check the WERA rules, they may allow waivers for the air cooled pushrod 2-valve/cyl bikes. | ||
| X1glider |
Check this out Ben. In the CCS, Buells can race in these classes: Middleweight Supersport Lightweight Superbike Lightweight Grand Prix Heavyweight Sportsman GT Lights (displacements per Lightweight Superbike) and Supertwins 6 classes is pretty good. Entry fees add up quick tho. The trick is to find the one where everyone else would be slower than you. Since every class, except supertwins, has a conglomeration of 2 and 4 stroke, 1, 2, 3, and 4 cylinder and 2,3 and 4 valves, pushrod, desmo or OHV, you have to weed thru what bike could compete in each class. I know very little about anything but American V-twins so I'm no help there. Blake, here's an idea for this KV topic. If I type up all the CCS classes that Buell's qualify for, and all the types and sizes of bikes for that class, put it at the top of this topic in permanent print (like was done in the wheel section for brakes and wheel bearings.) As a bonus, for each type of bike, we can add in as we figure it out, what other bikes fit those descriptions. For instance: MIDDLEWEIGHT SUPERSPORT Twin cylinder, air cooled, unlimited displacement (Buell) Four cylinder, liquid cooled, up to 640cc (CBR600, GXSR600, R6, etc.) (and the other types too) Whaddaya think? It would be good reference material at a glance and beats typing it over and over. | ||
| Blake |
I can pull that from the pdf of the FUSA rulebook. You'd just have to add the bike descriptors if you still wanted to do that. Instead of the top of the page, I'll create a new subtopic called "CCS/FUSA Classes for Buell Twins". | ||
| X1glider |
I'm afraid my lack of knowledge of what other bikes exist besides Buell and HD is lacking, since I don't subscribe to bike mags or have cable to watch the races. I'd need help there. That's a huge post in the subtopic. I was thinking more simplisticly, like I had typed above, with what bikes can compete in certain classes, not all the rules. Appreciate the effort anyway. I can now take my rule book home. | ||
| Benm2 |
Thanks for the information. I guess the best bet is to keep the stock displacement. But, I spent some time this evening reading Buzzelli's book, and it has raised some questions (more questions) regarding racing the Buell. Since the average lightning race seems to have a fair amount of DNF's, I'd be interested in knowing what modifications should be made for racing reliability. Buzzelli specifically mentions modifying the stock oil pump to REDUCE its output and increase its scavenging ability. Also, he mentions that replacing the springs & valves in the stock lifters improves valvetrain dynamics at high rpm. Anyone have any experience with this? Also, he mentioned that Buell published a list of recommended modifications for running the lightning class. Does anyone have one of these lists? Thanks again to those who responded to my posts. Hopefully you won't bore too quickly of my questions.... | ||
| Benm2 |
Oh, something I forgot. X1Glider, how much for the S1 race fairing Ben | ||
| Blake |
I didn't have time to pare the info down yet. Had a raquetball match to attend. Will remove all the extraneous stuff. The class rules however are necessary to understanding what engine mods might be permitted. Me for instance with my Nallinized 1250cc engine would not *legally* qualify for the classes where a Buell would be limited to 1210cc. Note that some classes, like Supersport allow an air cooled two valve twin unlimited internal engine mods as long as displacement limits are not violated. As to reliability of a racing Buell... I think setting the rev limiter no higher than 7,000 rpm would go a long way towards preserving the engine. Build it for big power but limit it to well below its proven capability. Like if Aaron were to enter a roadrace with his 115+ RWHP M2 or the that beast of a Ramanated 100" LSR engine, he has plenty of power and so could give away that last 500 rpm for the sake of reliability. Aaron, you could run your M2 in CCS Lightweight Superbike, a class currently known as "The SV650 Class". On a fast track you should be able to blow them away. Aaron, ever consider roadracing?  That 100" engine in an S1 chassis would qualify for Middleweight GP (MW GP), GTU, Supertwins, and the NRSS classes. It would be sweet, no matter how unfair, to be able to spank a bunch of squids riding UJM 600cc supersports. Ever think about it? I know you have. BadWeB Road Racing anyone? Would it be too cool to sponsor a regional club racer riding a Buell and taking no prisoners? Nallinized XB9R whooping up on the SV650's and even the supersports... Hmmmmm... Supersport requires stock cylinders and cases, but allows unlimited internal mods. Superbike (SB) allows pretty much anything but stock cases must be retained. LW SB limits a Buell to 1210cc with the competition being big bore SV650's (up to 700cc) putting out close to 100RWHP. MW SB allows a Buell unlimited displacement with the competition being big bore Duc 748's (800cc limit) and big bore UJM 600's (650cc limit). Sounds like a big bore XB9R could clean up in the LW SB class. And a stroked and bored XB9R (Pro Thunder configuration) should do pretty well in MW SB. | ||
| Aaron |
You're mistakenly assuming I have anywhere near enough riding skill to road race. | ||
| Court |
>>> Somehow I'm betting that competitive spirit and Corvette honed skill would contribute to a positive transfer of knowledge. I'm betting that an "Aaronized M-2" in the hands of someone with the proper skills would have little competition. Court | ||
| X1glider |
Ben, I'll look at my receipt to see what I paid for it, then we'll work out a price. I had to cut away clearance for the fork tube (you'd need to do it anyway) so you know. | ||
| Snowdave |
Now if only they considered a Buell the same as a sportster. The CCS classes allow an unlimited displacement sportster in several lightweight groups. Then we could use a 1250 against the SV's. Lightweight superbike sure seems to be the way to go, but I know several guys who race Supertwins due to the small field size. BTW, how's the BWB logo coming? I don't have any decals/sponsors for my bike when I start racing next year. | ||
| Blake |
Aaron, You had best time at Daytona Battle Trax, you have racing experience. You would do fine. Dave, I thought you were turning the racebike into a street bike??? As to the Sportster waiver for displacement. The answer I got was "Is a Buell a Sportster?!" To which I answered sheepishly "no sir." | ||
| X1glider |
It is if you put HD decals on your M2's tank! | ||
| Snowdave |
No, I am planning on doing double duty with the new M2. I will be selling my street ride and using John's bike for both track and street riding. I will not be racing until next summer as I have a few more pounds to lose before I go buy a set of leathers. I have lost 56 lbs since January and it has been the best motorcycle performance gain I have ever seen! All my changes to the bike are in the interest of using it both on the track and street. I am keeping the clip-ons, rearsets, chain drive, TZ tail, steering damper, Carb, etc. Adding the charging system, kickstand, and lights - which will come off easily at the track. I haven't decided what to do about the engine though. John said he thought it was around 13:1 compression. I can run turbo blue on the street, but $3.50/gallon will get old fast not to mention short rides since I won't be able to find gas away from home. John ran 108 octane race fuel. I don't really want to change out the piston, cylinders, etc. That may have to wait until after next summer when I have had one season of racing. Not that all of this matters since I live in Wisconsin and snow is probably only one month away - probably right around when the bike will be ready for the street. X1Gilder : I have an HD derby cover, does that mean I can classify my bike as a sportster? | ||
| Buellistic |
ATT: Snowdave For every 12lbs decrease in weight, body or motorcycle, results in ONE FREE ROLLING HP which does not show up on a DYNO!!!!!!!!!!!! In buelling BUELLISTIC and/or Hardley-Harley | ||
| Blake |
X1G, Nope, not even then. Though some seem to fantasize it might be so.  Snowdave, I would STRONGLY advise against trying to double duty your race bike as your street bike too. From one who also thought that a double duty bike would be a good idea... It AIN'T! Following are some things you may not have considered... 1. You really do NEED racing tires for the track. Having experienced both street and race tires on the track, I NEVER want to use street tires on the track again! The difference is not subtle. It is like night and day. Running street tires on a dry track is asking for trouble. Racing tires are very expensive, you won't want to be wearing them out on the road. Having to swap tires (or wheels if you have an extra set) every time you want to jump on the bike for a ride or before and after each race is a real hassle. It's doable, but it's a hassle. 2. Like having to swap wheels or tires before and after each race or track day, having to remove/replace all the street required but racing illegal parts is also a major hassle. You can do it, but it is a hassle. 3. Track bikes often meet the pavement with their other than rubber sides. Result, no street bike. 4. Track bike engines suffer problems more often. When they do... no street bike. 5. Certain racing required components are not conducive to the long term health of your engine when used on the street. The belly pan for instance can exacerbate an already hot engine condition. 6. A racebike needs number plates and ways to affix them. I'm planning on snagging a used XB9R as a track bike next year and bringing the M2 back to full time street duty. You already have two bikes! Keep them both! I know, you are probably really jonesin to get the racebike on the street to show off. Forget about it. You just end up running into someone with a faster street bike. It ain't worth it. | ||
| X1glider |
I agree with Blake, converting back and forth is TIME CONSUMING!!! I already know you have 2 sets of wheels, but like he said, HASSLE. Points 3 & 4, well worth considering. Point 5, just stay about 85 mph the heat won't be a problem! Point 6. If you leave the plates on when you hit the street, you are not only asking for and ass whuppin' from a GSXR1000, R1 and Busa, the cops will stalk you as well. Keep 'em both, just don't insure the race bike, they won't pay for race incidents anyway. Theft maybe. | ||
| Blake |
Shoot, forget the liter bikes, a tuned gixxer 600 will put an arse whoopin' on him. | ||
| Snowdave |
Blake, You make excellent points and I have considered them all. The only thing I can say for certain is that right now I am changing the bike to street use. Next summer I will race it. I will try to sell the street bike between now and next summer. Besides, the XB9S is really growing on me. I have always wanted a wheelie machine. So it wouldn't be the end of the world if the street bike sold. Dave | ||
| Rebelgtp |
Hey guys thought I would pop in and see what your suggestions might be. I want to start racing a bike but not quite sure what is going to be the best way to go. I want to run a Buell I know that much, even though I found a killer prepped 900ss Ducati for not to much localy. Anyway back to matters at hand I can't afford to buy a new Firebolt and prep that (god I would love to though). So that leaves me with two other options one of the tube frames or running a Blast. If i was running a Blast I already have some ideas (including a very Nallanized engine) and losing some weight on the bike. My question is for a first time track bike would you use one of the old tube frames? If so what one? Or would you go with a little "fireboltesq" Blast? | ||
| Blake |
Dave, It'll be a fun bike, street or track. Rebelgtp, I think racing a Blast against the other thumpers in super singles (you'd want the Nallin 44" stroker for that) or in the ultra-lightweight sportsman class ((515cc Nallin Big Bore) would be too cool. I've toyed with the idea myself. The suspension and wheels are things that would need upgraded as well as the engine. Hmmmm... For a semi-competitive ULW Sportsman Buell Blast figure... $3000 for used Blast $1900 for Nallinization (515cc big bore kit, headwork, and cams) $300 for performance exhaust system $200 for dyno test/tune $600 for suspension upgrades (could implement later) $300 for chain drive conversion (could save for later) $600 for 17" wheels $300 for front brake upgrade $400 for rearsets, number plates, etc... Ouch! That comes to $7,600! The best way to get into club racing is on an endurance team where you can share the costs between four or five people, or by purchasing a used race ready bike. Race ready SV650's are going for $5K-$6K. That's awfully hard to beat. | ||
| Ralph |
Okay, I've been keeping out of this (I'm not as opinionated as the guy Blake) but..... Why so hot to race a Buell? If you keep an eye out you can pick up an S1 for what, four grand? Call it four and a half. You'll then have a fairly good handling, uncompetitivly powered bike that can demand a fair amount of work to maintain. Don't forget to add in race prep, it's not cheap if you do it right. It's just as easy to pick up a bike already set up for racing for less money. I saw a TLR totally set up, fiberglass body, pipe, blah blah sell for $3800. It had never even been raced. Nobody wanted it since it didn't have a headlight any more. Another, a YZF 600 ready to go racing (all the blah blah and more) sell for $2500. You could take a bike like that and live at redline for years without having any problems. If you did manage to blow the motor, you can pick up a used one for less then five hundred (more like $250). Try a getting a Buell motor for that kind of money (by the way, I've got a Lightning motor for sale, $2,700, ping me if ya want it). And you will be doing that eventually if you keep one of these motors living at high revs. The single crank pin, knife and fork rod are just not right for that kind of life. I guess my point is, you can pick up a more durable bike, already set up for racing for less then you would spend getting a stock Buell ready to race. If your interest is in racing or even just learning how to "really" ride a bike the only affordable choice I see is to use a rice rocket. If your goal is only to race a Buell, well, that makes the decision simple. Good luck. bighairyralph | ||
| Ralph |
Blake, get the hell out of my head!!!!! bighairyralph | ||
| Rebelgtp |
yeah come to think of it i'm seeing what you are saying about race prepped bikes by watching this ducati. it is a 900ss with the big bore kit (now 944cc), fully race prepped, a few extras. I first saw it at $7000, the guy is down to $4500 now. hmmm maybe i'll give him a few more weeks and see if he still has that. my thing about wanting to run a buell is i just flat out like the bikes and would like to see what i could do with one. i'm not a big fan of 4cyl riceburners, they are great bikes just not my cup of tea. i'm more of a singles and vtwin guy. i do love the idea of a kick ass little blast though (just to be differant and because an all out road racing blast hasn't been done to my knowlege). you know i would have a really good use for that lightning engine if i ordered a chasis i found. it is an updated version of the old lucifers hammer setup, that would make an interesting bike. ah yes one more week until the races out here...god i'm glad i have that weekend off i can go see some buells running around pir. |
