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Socalbueller
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 02:57 pm: | 
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Question for California folks: When you are driving around in you cage at 20 mph do you have to check you mirrors if you want to move over in your lane a bit? (lets say to avoid that piece of scrap metal that fell off of the truck ahead of you)
Chances are if you are driving 20 mph and a bike would be lane splitting, it would be on the highway. If there was a piece of metal in the road everybody in front of you would be moving to aviod it also. The person lane splitting would see this and move to the next lane until they went by that spot. At least I would. As long as you stay in your lane and don't make sudden moves you don't really have to worry about a bike hitting you. |
Mr_grumpy
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 03:59 pm: |
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You guys would crap your pants riding in Paris!
Lane splitting is normal in France when traffic is running very slowly & nearly ALL drivers will move over to one side or the other to allow it.
I'm a puss at it, in the dry, I only ride 30-40 mph faster than the traffic, & regularly have to slow & tuck in to let faster riders by.
If you want to ride in any major city in Europe you have to have awareness of your surroundings, good balance, & a very flexible neck!
For the less courageous of us the trick is this, tool along gently til some loony with a big BM tourer or Hondabago goes howling by, nip out behind him, follow & learn.
It took me a while to get used to it, but the Buell is nearly the perfect bike to do it on, good handling, plenty of grunt & plenty of engine braking, not too wide, but with good "road prescence".
After you've carved your way right across a major city in less than a quarter of the expected time, you stop for a coffee & a smoke cos you've earned it!
Your hands are shaking, you got a grin a mile wide,& an adrenalin buzz like you just rode the dragon both ways back to back!  |
Eeeeek
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 04:01 pm: |
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Generally, I split on the right side of the car's lane and if the car "moves over," I can simply move into the left side of the lane next to me.
BTW, I lane split on the surface streets all the time, too, not just the freeways.
I have seen a huge change in behavior of drivers in the last decade. It used to be that many cars would stay their course and about one in ten would try to pinch you off. Now, about one in ten move over to make room for you, most stay the course and only a rare few try to pinch you off. Maybe it's the popularity of chopper shows or whatever; but a lot more people are courteous to bikes now.
Vik |
Chasespeed
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 04:35 pm: |
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Passing over a double yellow is okay in Maine unless there is a no passing sign. A double yellow is considered to be a recommendation to pass with caution.
Jack, thanks for that bit of info. I am sure it will come in handy. Though I will get a handbook when I get up there, to familiarize myself with what I can getaway with, etc...
Chase |
Bill00
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 05:46 pm: |
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http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/StateLaws.html
Here's some good info. |
Jackbequick
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 07:20 pm: |
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Chase - Another nice to know for Maine is that it is okay to pass a stopped or left turning vehicle on the right as long as you stay on the pavement (you can use the paved shoulder, including the part over the white line) to do that. I occasionally use that to do a lane spit of sorts on the right when cars are backed up at a light, especially if I'm making a right turn.
Otherwise, driving in Maine is like everywheres else, always assume that every vehicle in your field of vision is being driven by a blind person and is trying to hit you. But you already knew about that...
Some of the worst habits up here are:
1 - Cars backing out of driveways into the road to enter the roadway (instead of turning in their yard and entering the roadway nose first).
2 - Not stopping at stop signs or yielding when entering roadways, especially if they can tell that you are looking at them.
3 - Cutting corners when making left turns. This usually puts them on the wrong side of the road for the majority of the turn radius. This is usually combined with a "speed up and turn to avoid having to slow and yield" maneuver.
4 - In Massachusets, no one ever speeds up, slows down, looks to see if there is any traffic coming, or makes any other effort that would indicate that there may be another automobile in the spot they are going to occupy. Mainers are a little better on on ramps. Some of them will stop and the end and look around though.
It was sad to hear today that Brunswick will not be removed from the base closure list. Hope that doesn't cheat you out of a close to home shore duty tour there.
Jack |
Jon
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 07:46 pm: |
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I second Vik's posting. More and more people are pulling aside to make way. Maybe they figure it's easier than taking a chance on hitting us. |
Outrider
| | Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 01:22 pm: |
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Per a retired CHP Officer that conducted a Traffic School I attended in So Cal, lane sharing (the official term, not lane splitting) is legal in CA as they adopted the "Space Theory" way back when.
In essence, you are entiled to the space that your vehicle occupies and no more. In the event of an accident, how one person violated another persons space is the determining factor for issuing a traffic summons, etc.
One example he gave that was totally unrelated to motorcycles is that if you can drive three small cars safely side-by-side in two lanes going in the same direction, that would not be illegal. However, you most likely would have to argue the issue in court with the use of the DMV Manual (thick version).
The primary reason the space theory was adopted, was it apparently is in line with the laws in other countries and since CA has so many drivers from other countries, they figured this practice would help.
Disclaimer: This information was presented in a Traffic School I attended in 1975. I am relatively confident that the laws have been modified slightly at least on the community level as a friend of mine just got a ticket in Anaheim for lane sharing and he lost in court. |
Outrider
| | Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 01:51 pm: |
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Question:
Has CA finally addressed the motorcyclists right to lane share in the DMV's automobile handbook that is the basis for the tests to get your basic drivers license there?
That was one of my pet peeves when I lived there, as it appeared that most non-motorcylists I talked to complained about how the riders were ignoring the law and should be spanked hard for it. Needless to say, they had egg on their face's when I explained the law to them.
Additionally, I feel that the issue should be addressed at all car rental agencies as most out of state drivers are not aware of the practice and would be more attentive before switching lanes if they were.
Lastly, based on my 30 years of lane sharing in CA, I don't subscribe to the loud pipes theory.
My KLR and old Wide Glide were loud and all my other bikes were stock. In the stealth mode, I contend it is easier lane share as you don't scare or irritate the cager's.
The inverse is, the excessive noise of the KLR and Wide Glide irriated some drivers and caused them to swerve in front of me. Sort of a road rage thing, if you get my drift.
Well, that is my theory concerning loud pipes and I believe it is well supported by all the stock bikes that lane share or even just ride in traffic safely around the world. If you have to rely on your illegal noise levels to feel safe in traffic, I firmly believe that you have an attitude problem and could benefit from some additional rider skills training.
Just an opinion. YMMV at least until the LEO's enforce the EPA and CARB noise emmissions regulations. |
Bustybuell
| | Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 03:41 pm: |
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We had a long discussion about splitting lanes during my safety class last year.
My instructor said it is ONLY legal in California and it is legal here because it is NOT ILLEGAL
in other words because there is no law against splitting lanes, YOU CAN.
BB |
Bkw_bmw
| | Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 03:54 pm: |
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Has CA finally addressed the motorcyclists right to lane share in the DMV's automobile handbook that is the basis for the tests to get your basic drivers license there?
"Allow the motorcycle a full lane width. Although it is not illegal to share lanes with motorcycles, it is unsafe."
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/pgs55thru57.htm |
Steve_a
| | Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 04:20 pm: |
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"It is only legal because it's not illegal."
The same could be said for breathing. In California, lane-sharing is legal, period. Which is not to say an officer couldn't find a technical violation of the vehicle code to write you with if he felt like it. CVC 21658 A) might be his choice if he saw you riding on the dividing line: "A) A vehicle shall be driven as nearly as practical entirely within a single lane and shall not be moved from the lane until such movement can be made with reasonable safety." Of course, you have counterarguments with the "as nearly as practical" phrase and with the long-standing practice of motorcycles lane-splitting. |
Bigblock
| | Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 05:10 pm: |
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I believe loud pipes(I'm not talking drag pipes here, just vance+hines muff on a buell, lets say, or baffled baloney cuts on a sporty or big twin) are much safer than a very quiet pipe. Of course, I have only been riding for about 17 years on the street, so plenty of people have WAY more experience than I.
I have found a blip on the throttle to be WAY more effective than the horn, cagers just don't hear that horn, and they PAY ATTENTION WHEN YOU BLIP THE GAS. Drag pipes do tend to startle and annoy some people(even me ocassionally!) but I believe a reasonably loud pipe adds some noticeability and safety. I can say FOR SURE that a louder than stock pipe has helped to keep me from getting run over by cages several times.
Just my opinion, etc... |
Diablobrian
| | Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 08:49 pm: |
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There is an element of lane sharing in CA I haven't seen addressed yet.
Lane sharing does not exempt you from making "safe" lane changes. You are NOT allowed to weave randomly back and forth between 2 lanes, or even cross the line at all without signaling. Technically you should properly signal each lane change. I got to visit traffic court because of this one some years back. 300 ft (right?) of signaling is a long time when you are trying to look in all directions at once. The Judge bought the cop's line. I had to "pay the man"
Also remember the way CA law is written the vehicle that impacts another from the most rearward position is usually considered to be liable in a given accident. The overtaking vehicle is responsible for maintaining a safe following/braking distance. If you are overtaking these vehicles at a high rate of speed and a vehicle decides to "block you" It is technically your fault if you hit them. "reckless and imprudent" is the term the officer used in a case heard before mine in traffic court one day not so many years ago. (if I remember correctly). You should have seen the rider, he was on crutches, I think he was probably very lucky to be alive. |
2k4xb12
| | Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 10:09 pm: |
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Also, remember that this is only legal because it stems from a time when all bikes were air cooled and would not survive if left idling in stop and go traffic. |
Cyclonemaniac
| | Posted on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 12:10 am: |
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Busty, is your safety class administered by a state organization, or does a motorcycling organization administer it? ie ABATE?
BTW, what kind of Buell do you ride and what kind of bike was used during the safety class?
 |
Outrider
| | Posted on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 09:44 am: |
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BK BMW...Thanks for the update. Looks like the new manual tells cagers not to share lanes with bikes but doesn't tell them the inverse is kosher. Sounds like a job half done, eh?
2k4xb12...I had forgot the air cooled rationale. The CHP Guy also mentioned that in the 1975 Traffic School.
BigBlock...Agree with the Vance & Hines type sound on a Buell. Is mellow if the packing is maintained and not all that offensive.
Heck, I have both a V&H on my 2000 X1 and Cycle Shack's on my 2003 Wide Glide and it is relatively easy to sneak into the hood late at night without waking anyone. Wish I could say the same for the dogs though. LOL |
Bigblock
| | Posted on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 10:13 pm: |
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Ha ha! Cycle shacks on my 78 Sporty, S+S stroker crank, 5/8" over to 1200. Don't wanna wake the dogs better shut'er off and glide 'er in! About 10 steps quieter than drag pipes, though. |
Timbo
| | Posted on Saturday, August 27, 2005 - 12:48 am: |
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That's why if splitting in moving traffic, do it FAST.
And remember
The faster you go...the more narrow you get.
Timbo |
Diablobrian
| | Posted on Sunday, August 28, 2005 - 12:13 am: |
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gotta love physics! unfortunately though doesn't your mass increase too? I forget. |
Chasespeed
| | Posted on Sunday, August 28, 2005 - 12:20 am: |
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It was sad to hear today that Brunswick will not be removed from the base closure list. Hope that doesn't cheat you out of a close to home shore duty tour there
Well, the President ahs to sign off on it. But I can say this, everything as far as my shore duty is concerned is on hold right now, AND I AM NOT HAPPY, to say the least. I have been on seas duty for 7 straight damn years, been gone most of it, and everytime I get an opportunity to go to shore, it gets trashed....
Anyway, down here in Corpus Christi, MAN, I forgot how hot and humid it was down here...
Chase |
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