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Jon
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 01:58 am: | 
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Welcome back, Blake. |
Eeeeek
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 02:14 am: |
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"As far as for the comments of the only time an XB will be close to a 999R, man it takes no skill to twist the throttle."
Never highsided, have you?
This is an area where the lower power of the Buell could make it better (easier to manage) for non-racers. It take a lot of skill to twist the throttle on the track.
Vik |
Tramp
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 09:21 am: |
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oh, Geez- I PROMISED myself I'd stay outta this thread, from now on,.
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so I will |
Xlcr
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 02:05 pm: |
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Just dropping in to say I'll finally be riding a new Lightning Long tomorrow at Sturgis. I'll form my own opinions on it, and pay no attention at all to anyone else's. |
Glitch
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 02:16 pm: |
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That's the way it should be.
When I bought my XB9S the press wasn't nearly as nice as it is today.
I rode it, I liked it, I bought it.
37thousand miles later, I'm still happy. |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 02:20 pm: |
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These comments do agree with my personal feelings of an XB9R I tested. Going through 20mph esses, I looked at the speedo to be surprised that I was going between 70 & 75mph. What scared me was I did not feel I was pushing the bike, and it had allot more, totally floored me!
Anyway take it for what it's worth, these are the reasons why the tester felt the XB was better than the 999R. As far as for the comments of the only time an XB will be close to a 999R, man it takes no skill to twist the throttle. I have shut up too many sport bikes on the Nighthawk, when the first curve is reached.
M2nc, you and many others along this twisted thread are misquoting and misunderstanding exactly what Bike said and what Bike set out to achieve. They based much of their findings on physics and feel NOT SPEED The article is titled BEST CORNERING not FASTEST CORNERING.
Who am I to comment on the XB's fine handling and speed through corners is no ones business but my own, but for jeeps sake dudes let's be bloody right here for once if we're going to raise comment. Fast or bloody fast it may well be the old XB, but it is not going to be faster than a longer heavier slower steering 999R . Those words are printed to make you think that longer heavier slower steering doesn't work. The facts are different though aren't they because the 999R is the weapon of choice for Bostrom and Hodgson in AMA and Toesland and Laconi in WSB. Now if I'm not mistaken they've all put the 999R on the top rung of the podium this season which clearly means LONGER - HEAVIER - SLOWER STEERING does work - just differently is what you need to grasp.
Not to slate Buell but LET'S KEEP IT REAL.
Rocket |
M1combat
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 03:14 pm: |
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Of course Sean, but apparently so does shorter, quicker, lighter steering  .
See Blake's post up there... Also... take a look at the "Remove the emotion" portion of the review. You'll see that the Buell scored the same in every category as the 999R except for drive coming out of the corner. Basically... The 999R has more power. That's all (except for that extra $20K USD tacked onto the price I suppose). Keep in mind... I'm not saying that the 999R is crap by any means. Only that I think that the XB isn't crap either . As far as "fastest cornering"... That mostly comes down to weight with a given set of tires once you've made a comparably stable/efficient/stiff chassis design.
Personally... And this is only my opinion... I think that Buell has taken a step forward with Chassis design and geometry compared to ANYONE else. It's the pieces of the puzzle that fit so well together. Sure, it's a little different coming off something from "the old school" but it seems to work . |
M1combat
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 03:14 pm: |
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Which car de-throned the mighty and legendary GT-40? |
M1combat
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 03:35 pm: |
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I'll add one more...
"So it leans for England (well, America) without fear of anything digging in or running off line, responds rapidly to input and carries huge speed well within it's safe limits with a predictable, effective yet gentle power delivery."
It seems to me that it ONLY loses out when it comes to twisting the throttle. I can assure you from personal experience that there is enough power to step the rear out with Metzeler Sportec M1's in at least the first three gears (I haven't tried in fourth or fifth...). Once you pick the bike up it will NOT leave a corner as quickly as a Duck 999R (until you put that $20K USD back into the engine) but I think it'll get into and around one just as quickly. The article seemed to state as much.
Their numbers...
Duck - Lean angle - 10
Flickability - 8
Corner speed - 10
Drive - 9
Buell - Lean angle - 10
Flickability - 8
Corner Speed - 10
Drive - 6
The final page of the article (as noted by M2nc) states that "the next day" (I won't go so far as to say that this was after the test and that the Buell MAY have achieved an 11 on lean angle capability) Armitage took the peg feelers off (keep in mind, they're like a dang inch or more long...) and leaned it MORE than he was in the pic. The feelers were scraping in the pic. I really wish they had a pic of him scraping the pegs themselves. We all know that the XB is capable of MAJOR lean angle with the feelers ON. Apparently just as much as a Duck 999R. Enough to tie it at "10" anyway .} |
Eeeeek
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 05:30 pm: |
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So, M1, do you think if you modified the Buell to 140+ rwhp, that maybe the "feel" they talked about would change?
Vik |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 06:07 pm: |
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Dunno, but the "RHF" denominator would go through the roof.
(RHF=Risk of Hospital Food) |
M1combat
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 06:56 pm: |
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Do you mean where they say...
"There isn't the feel of being a mere spectator in the cornering process as there is with, say... a Honda CBR1000RR"?
Or
"It feels alive and full of character"
Or
"The rev range is quite short so it needs a bit of monitoring and there's a barage of feedback from the forks"
Or - Maybe you were speaking of the "S"???
"Imagine a 250GP bike's razor geometry thrown about by those bars... Yes, that's what it's like."
Maybe I missed the part you're talking about? |
Eeeeek
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 08:55 pm: |
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To the point:
I don't think it's valid to say that adding 50 rwhp to the Buell would do nothing to change the characteristics of the bike.
Vik |
Henrik
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 09:21 pm: |
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Given similar weight motor, similar weight distribution, and an equally smooth power band and fuel injection system ... I think you're right Vik.
It would however also require a much more controlled throttle hand - which might make the bike less forgiving overall - and therefore make it less suitable for less experienced riders.
Henrik
(I know we've had the power vs. beginner discussions ad nauseum, it is however my opinion ... so there))
(Message edited by Henrik on August 09, 2005) |
M1combat
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 09:30 pm: |
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I agree. You asked about the feel "they" talked about so I was wondering which portion of their talking about the feel you were talking about.
Of course an extra 50 HP would change the feel of the bike, but remember that the XB is biased 52% towards the front AND most bikes that will be built that way will have an extended swingarm... Not that these things would completely mitigate the effects, but they both help along with the low CG (I don't know if it's lower than the 999R but I doubt it). In any case... Wouldn't 145HP be a good deal more than the 999R? Of course... it would be a LOT more torque as well. I would really like to see someone make different sized pulleys and belts... I think that a belt (as implemented with the XB anyway) would be a nice thing with that much torque. |
Eeeeek
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 10:02 pm: |
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999R claimed power: 150
XB12R claimed power: 103
So that's about 50. Real world I've seen a stock 999R pull 135 rwhp and a stock XB12R pull 92 rwhp on the same dyno, same day, so that's closer to 40 hp. Either way, the 999 was designed around a high HP platform for racing. The XB was designed around a lower hp, high torque platform for street riding.
Vik |
M1combat
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 10:15 pm: |
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Completely understood...
I think the manifestations of that would be a lot less pronounced than one may think though. HP is reasonably useless when leaned over a ways and on the brakes.
This means that the XB shouldn't suffer TOO much by having 40 more HP. It'll change the bike for sure. How much? I don't know... Ask Daves. He's the only accessible person I know of who's ridden both on the same day (powerful Buell and mostly stock Buell) AND owns a Mille-R (which seems pretty comparable to the 999). The XB has quite a bit of anti-squat though... and the geometry seems like the wheel base change when you get on the gas wouldn't be too entirely bad.
I'd have to try it out, but I still think the Buell would do well compared to the 999R and the Mille-R... |
M2nc
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 11:42 pm: |
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Not trying to argue especially since I have already stated that I'm on the fence here, but how can I misunderstand a direct quote. It simply reads that the tester prefers the Buell. Not rocket science here, it is his personal opinion that the Buell is better. As was his description of the 999R as slow steering in comparison to the Buell and Aprilia 125. |
Davegess
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 11:55 pm: |
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I think it is cool that the Buell wins out over the Duc on emotion. The Italians who practically define passion are out passioned by an American engineer. How ironic is that! |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 12:08 am: |
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I'd hate to get on the gas too abruptly on a 140 HP Buell. Scary. Very very scary. That kind of HP in that chassis is simply frightening. It's why the FX Buell racing machines competing on the big tracks add some inches back into the swingarm. Not sure what they do with the front end.
Oops, I must have run out of Kool-aid. 
Honestly M1, I've ridden a mere 130 rwhp Buell and it was a big tube framer too. That kind of power coming on that abruptly is something to behold. Very intimidating at first. You should try it.  |
Jon
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 12:12 am: |
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I'd like to juice up my X1. Not because I need to, it's just that I think it is the moral thing do...it's the right thing to do. |
M1combat
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 12:23 am: |
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"You should try it. : )"
Oh I will. I'm thinking about $7000 and a call to one of our sponsors should get me real close to that. If not... I'd bet It'll get me close enough to be scared . |
Jprovo
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 12:32 am: |
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CONGRAT'S BUELL!!!!
I'm glad for the good press.
Imagine how spun everyone would be if they had added in the XB9R and XB9S to the list. By my thinking they would add two more Buells to the top 10 cornering bikes list.
If logic follows: (I know it's a fun OPINION piece, but I'm having fun) The drive out and corner speed rankings would be a point or two lower for the 9 versions of the S and R, but the RHF ranking would be in the 3 or 2 range. Therefore their score's would be right in the top 10.
Of course, if the Brit's had a Buell Blast to ride, it would have most definitely rivaled the Goldie, and probably beat it.... (Ok, so I'm biased, but those 16" tires make the Blast real flickable)
That would make what? 5 Buells in the top 11 spots?? Not to mention the XB12X or the great handling Tubers...
Again:
CONGRAT'S BUELL!!!!
and thank you to the 10 judges at Bike Magazine. Fun article, I hope that more like it are in the future.
James
(Always been an OGRI fan) |
Court
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 05:33 am: |
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>>>>The Italians who practically define passion are out passioned by an American engineer.
The Italians, like the Japanese, have always been a Buell hotbed of enthusiasm. There is still an active RR1000 Club in Italy. |
Jon
| | Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 12:35 am: |
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Right on. |
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