| Author | Message | ||
     Rick_a |
All I can say is that's cool, and I can't wait to read about it. It wouldn't surprise me...a Performance Bikes test had the Buell XB12 as the best corner tool, too. | ||
| Xlcr |
You got to give them credit for their chuzpah! They will never let up, the lies just keep coming. They have a mission in life, you see. I hold them in tremendous contempt. (Message edited by xlcr on August 02, 2005) | ||
| Blake |
All, Good grief. Personal attacks are not welcome here. Talking about race credentials is fine. That is on topic and pertinent to the discussion. Chop, You have shown a great ability to demand answers to your questions. That is not a very convincing way to make a point in any discussion. Not very friendly either. Why not simply extend congratulations to the folks at Buell who worked to produce what Bike magazine and their expert panel deem "The best cornering bike ever"? Note, not "best handling" but "best cornering." Why not simply congratulate Buell and the folks there for the great recognition? Why, if indeed you are a "Buell Enthusiast" do you seek to crap on the celebration? That sure doesn't fit the bahavior of what I consider a "Buell enthusiast." Why not simply agree that the Buell ZTL wheel/brake assembly does indeed have real merit? Why are you always on the naysayer's side of the discussion? Buell enthusiast? I don't think so. As to debating the issue, not sure attacking someone who must post anonymously gives any more merit to your views on Buell motorcycles. It pretty much devolves to the point of a personal flame war. Greg likes that kind of think, he's already made himself a cheerleader and has suited up for duty in the personal attack role. Anyway, thanks for doing your best to keep things civil and on topic. So how about some congratulations for Buell wrt the Bike Magazine cover, and how about some recognition of Buell's achievements in innovating and bringing to market a new front wheel/brake system that provides very real and significant benefits to the world of motorcycling? Snail, Dude, if your S3 even with touring bars and touring height foot pegs won't outhandle your Busa, then there is something really really horribly wrong with its setup or something. Not sure I'd indict the handling of a bike based on the dragging of non-rearset footpegs. For that, I might indict its "cornering" ability though. As to the Buell brake, I've outbraked many a repliracer blasting downhill into turn three at Oak Hill Raceway. Yeah with the stock Buell front brake on my '97 Cyclone. Yeah, I gotta clamp down harder on the lever than the dude on his R6, or GSXR1000, but the brake even on the track will always do the job and float the rear tire when racing around OHR. I wouldn't argue that a significantly higher speed track would probably dictate an upgraded brake. At best I'm clamping on the binder at a peak speed of 100-110mph coming into turn two, a 40 mph left hander. Fun stuff. I would be astounded if I could hustle a Busa around OHR more quickly than I can my Cyclone. I mean even imagining trying to do so scares the heck outa me. | ||
| M1combat |
I'd love to... At this point it looks like the only way I'll be getting my hands on a copy will be through a $124 subscription. I'll probably miss the September issue anyway, so I'll wait for someone across the pond to post it. | ||
| Rocketman |
Seeing as Bike is a British mag let me throw a wrench in the works - PB (Performance Bikes) is also a British mag. PB have a Test Track Table and so far 36 bikes are on the table. What is the PB Test Track? The PB test track is 6.2 miles of complex motorcycle torture, specially laid out at the Bruntingthorpe Proving Ground. At one extreme there's a two-mile straight approached at almost 100mph, where pretty much every bike can hit top speed by half way down. It's not fun to ride, most corners are blind, bumpy and off-camber. Surfaces vary massively - it's a test track, not a race track. Vulcans? What's that? The Vulcans section of the PB test track comprises a tight left followed by a slow, bumpy chicane and the scariest hairpin since Cadwell's Club Circuit. Who's riding? Bruce Dunn, 38, has been racing since 1988. Currently 2nd in the British Supermono championship. Fast. Placing........... 1st 2005 GSX-R1000 which tops the table. 2nd Phase One's 04 R1 endurance racer. 3rd is Cecil's 05 ZX-12R (yikes) 4th 5th and 6th go to the R1's 7th and 8th 05 and 04 ZX6R's 9th the 05 999 10th the 2000 model Aprilia RSV Mille R. Apart from the 98 R1 in 6th the Mille R is the oldest bike in the top 10. Out of all the 36 other bikes the only older ones are 12th 1998 Yoshimura X1 Busa. 15th 2000 Holeshot Racing GSX-R1000 Turbo. 16th 1993 Fireblade. 18th 2000 Honda SP1. 25th 1996 Bimota SB6. 31st 1999 Yamaha R6 (wet track) . 33rd 1984 Ramasses II chopper. 35th 1990 Kawasaki KR-1S. 36th 1991 Yamaha TDR250. 28th BMW K1200S (wet windy and thoroughly awful conditions) 29th 2005 BUELL XB12R 30th Harley Davidson Street Rod The XB12R was 23rd place in the Vulcans section @ 25.90. Fastest Vulcan time 23.52 seconds went to the Yamaha TDR250. The XB12R was slower than 17 of the top 20 bikes in the Vulcan section. The three in the top 20 the XB12R beat in the Vulcans section were the Hayabusa 25.92, Holeshot GSX-R1000 Turbo 26.77 and Honda SP1 26.12. Outside the top 20 the BMW R1200ST was quicker than the XB12R as was the Honda CB1300S and the Ducati 749. Make of these stats what you will. Rocket | ||
| Choptop |
Well taken Blake, if I've been unfriendly its due to the tone of posts directed at me. Lets review... I say - I wonder what has changed? I get an answer. I say - they've gone from pessimistic (a compliment to Buell) to overly optimistic (expressing my doubt that the XB is the best cornering ever...) Note, I dint go on a rant about how Buells suck, about how I hate them, I didnt not use foul language.... I simply said... Bike is being overly optimistic (in my opinion), I wonder why? hardly nasty in tone, hardly raining on a parade. Just addressing the subject at hand. to which I get all kinds of snide comments, personal attacks, questions of my riding ability, questions as to my motivation for posting such a bold question, unfounded comments from someone who cant speak their mind in public, and one threat to shite on my grave. Nice. all of the other BS I and others have posted has had nothing to do with the subject, ie. Buell being the best cornering bike, or my, or anyone elses for that matter, opinion as to whether or not that is true. If I have taken a nasty tone, its been in kind to the attacks. I stand behind my question, and I stand behind my retorts to the snide comments. and now you question whether or not I'm a Buell enthusiast. Nice. So do I need to run down my credentials in that dept also? do i need to show what I've done for the Company publicly and privately to further the brand? Do i need to post examples of my support for those racing and riding the brand? If I do, its a sad day indeed. One raises one little smidge of doubt to a claim, one does not immediately jump and down and scream at hollar at the meer mention of the Buell name.. and yer not an enthusiast? huh, and ya wonder why some accuse the readers here of being cool-aide drinkers. again, I stand behind the tone, claims and subjects of my posts. Clearly it is impossible to even ask a question here without coming to the logical conclusion that one is worthy to have one grave shat upon. | ||
| Eeeeek |
Wow. Just Wow. Anony, thank your for at least spelling my name correctly. I am a club racer and am quite confident that your professionals would hand me my ••• even if they were on Ninja 250's. It ha nothing to do with the bike, they are pros with much more experience than me. Any comments I make are based on my experiences. My experiences are valid in the real world just anyone who has ridden all the bikes in question has a valid opinion. As a side note, I have beaten the CCS West #1 plate more than once, so I must be doing something right. What I have found is that in a racing applicaiton, a Buell needs tens and thousands of dollars of modificaltions and a championship winning rider to compete with less expensive SV650's, RVF400's and the like. It can, in no way, compete with a Mille or a 999. The results are out there in plain text for everyone to see. My own experience with racing against an XB is I got beat. Of course, I've loaned this rider my SV and he was faster than I am. That's partly due to his 10+ years of experience racing in FIM, AMA and local clubs and partly due to his superior natural talent. Ciccoto vs me has no bearing on anything. He'd win even if I was on a much better bike. You're trying to draw me into a flawed argument. M1, you are still loopy. A 999 is a race bike. It's a phenominal race bike with a winning record. Stop trying to compare the XB to a 999. Vik Slower than professional racers. | ||
| Choptop |
I stand corrected.... XLCR did not mean to deficate on my grave, he meant to unrinate on my grave. ya see, I just had a little phone chat with him. Cuz where I come from a man is accountable for his words, and I wanted to find out his intentions, whether or not it should be considered a threat. Its not, as he explained to me, urinating on ones grave cannot be a threat as reciepiant of said golden shower would not be harmed... being dead and all. | ||
| Firemanjim |
Xlcr needs cool down and apologize.Totally out of line comments from someone who has been around here how long?Vik and Chop have been part of this board for a long time,participating in many BRAG activities over the years. I went back and read Chop's comments and nowhere was there any namecalling,backbiting,snide,rude comments.He merely stated his views--this is America,right? And anon did give him some snotty snide replies that I thought were in poor taste. And Blake,Chop kinda reminds me of you in the way he doggedly pursues an answer---just as stubborn. At least he is speaking from his personal experience,unlike some of the detractors. I expect this sort of behavior over on Sacborg or Labusas--certainly not here. | ||
| M2nc |
Chop, Snail, I get it. I understand what you are trying to say. Your opinion is yours and it should be respected, even if one disagrees. I am in the market for something sportier than I have now. If I go with a Repli-Racer, the Suzuki GSX-R750 is my first choice, though an RC51 comes a close second. If I go with a Super Sport Tourer, either the XX or the Busa would be nice, though the Honda fits me better. If I go alternative outside of Buell, Ducati 748 and Moto Guzzi V11s call my name. The problem is that I know I like to ride. I put about 15,000 miles a year between my two bikes now so I want something I can live with on the street. There the XB-R really shines to me. Though the M2 is more comfortable than an XB, it feels heavy in comparison, not to mention the low pegs. An XB would give me the handling limits I'm looking for with the street ability of a Buell. Do you think that the handling limits of other bikes are worth giving up the street advantages of the XB? | ||
| Choptop |
so lets flip it... who here thinks the XB is best cornering bike ever, and why? (other than the article says so). anyone? | ||
| Choptop |
dunno how to answer M2nc... what do you see as the street advantages of the XB, and what so you think are the handling limits of the other bikes you listed... not being a smart •••...just trying to see where you are coming from, to address your questions. you currently ride an M2? is that right? | ||
| M2nc |
Chop, Trying to pick your Brain. I do not have the experience with Repli-Racers, but I have seen the maintenance cost of them from friends. On the Buell side I know guys with Buell XBs that are pushing 20,000 miles and other than oil and tire changes, one front rotor, and a spark plug wire, the bikes just ran. Do you feel that Valve Adjustments and other maintenance cost are worth the expense because they handle that much better than XB-R? | ||
| Eeeeek |
M2nc, I was at a similar crossroad when I sold my X1. I needed a bike that I could put a lot of miles on and run hard and fast. I chose the 954. In my opinnion, it is one of the best and most underrated street (note, street) bikes ever made. It has a good range, great handling, power (both low range torque and top end), brakes, some built in storage, good ergos and it has Honda reliability. I think the 1000RR, while a better handling bike with more power, is not as good. My maintenance costs on my Honda to date are simply oil changes, a set of brake pads and brake fluid. I'm at 16,300 miles now, so I should have the valves looked at soon. I'll post up how that experience goes. I checked out the XBS and didn't like the seating position. I did like the XBR, though. I do not feel like I made any compromises with my Honda. I could not go with the XBR because I was still feeling the pains of having my old X1 in the shop so much and was unwilling to beta test another bike. That and I had already felt the power of the Honda. The M2 was a great bike, I just think it needed the X1's forks. I would have loved to have seen a M2 with S1 narrow bodywork (I'm pretty sure someone on this site made one). So back to the topic. You can't beleive me, I'm just trying to sucker you in with lies. Vik (Message edited by eeeeek on August 01, 2005) | ||
| Daves |
Don't know if the XB is best, I haven't ridden every bike out there. I am no where near pro racer fast. I does work better for me than others I have had the chance to ride. I like the XB, doesn't mean you have to. | ||
| Bigblock |
Hmmm, I've only rode a VERY poorly set up XBR, and that one certainly wasn't the best handling anything. My well setup M2 with rearsets and Racetech forks handled WAY better, and I'm QUITE sure IT"S not the best handling anything either. Anyway, I've ben on a track once, and may have plenty of fast street miles and think I have a pretty good feel, I sure don't claim to know ANYTHING! Many of you here have WAY more experience at that track thing than me. But do we even know what this article is talking about? I sure don't. Best cornering Bike, what exactly do they mean? Chop, I really haven't changed my opinion of you, that was a little gentle ribbing, I did however have issue with tone(not entirely your fault) in light of thread . You said they were being overly optimistic, I had a slight issue with that seeing as we have yet to see what was actually said or tested. Don't judge a book by it's cover. The tone taken by a few here on this thread can easily be taken as an attack on our beloved Brand here. I am all for discussion on this and ANY appropiate subject on BWB. NMeither am I a coolaid drinker, prefer good single malt meself. Considering degeneration of behaviour here, I am hesitant to partake in this thread any longer. I have met and rode with some great people from BWB over the years, and learned a lot and hope to have helped some, too. Sorry to say this thread has left a sour taste in my mouth, and I'm not blaming any individual, but seniority on BWB doesn't excuse ganging up on someone who is objecting spiriridly yet remaining civil. The uncivil ones have no exccuse, I hope I haven't mistakenly been so myself. The XBS seating was an issue for me, too, Vik. The R seemedmuch more comfy, but it 's no M2! I think I'd like to borrow somebody's R for a week or a month, I could probably get it set up proper like and give you guys an honest evaluation by then... anyone want to le tme borrow theirs(heheh)... | ||
| Buells Rule! (Dyna in disguise) |
Blake...a cheerleader? Because I side with Chop when he asks the question regarding just exactly whats in the article? Nobody here seems to know but everyone is cheering for some reason. I stated I had no opinion on the article in question since I havent read it...btw I went to Barnes & Noble as wells as Borders today & all they had was the July issue. M1 jumped on Chop as did a few others because he expressed his opinion. I notice you dont admonish anyone jumping in the feeding frenzy so long as they were attacking Chop...I mean what the hell is that crap about urinating on graves? You have deleted a lot of other posts that were nowhere near that bad. I guess discusion is fine so long as its 1 sided? | ||
| M2nc |
Eeeek, funny you mention the 954, I have scoped one 954 and two 929. You are right, it is one of the most misunderstood bikes. Its a repli-racer, that was meant for the street. Unfortunately in a US market of Sport Bike or Cruiser, such a bike is lost because its not considered the fastest of the Repli-Racers, even though it is probably the most streetable. Personally, I like it. BigBlock - I second you comment on borrowing an XB-R for a week. I know the bike will never be as comfortable as my M2, but its not replacing the M2, just complimenting it. | ||
| Choptop |
Well the differnce you speak of, cost and handling... are pretty much as wash for street riding. If you can wrench on yer own, the XB is fine for maint. getting to the valves isnt too hard, the belt means hands off the final drive system and no mess. On the other side, there are some street bike and or replic-racers that offer comparable handling, and at the risk of having my grave urinated on, dare I say may even handle better. The maint. costs can be "more" if you have a shop do all the work instead of doing it yerself. Note, one can check the valves on a I4 just as you can on an XB. Is it harder? slightly. Do you HAVE to have the shop do it? Nope. You can do it on yer own. So the "cost" would be more effort, not more $. Chains and sprockets do wear, and they sling lube. So figure, at 15k a year, a new chain and set of sprockets a year. Lube sling? wash yer bike. non issue. as far as better handling of others being "worth" is... thats kinda up to you. I'd say comfort would be the fisrt issue... if you are more comfy on a XB than say...a Busa or Gixxer 750, XX or the like, then no the handling differences would make that big a difference... but then again, the costs are that much different either. I would say pick the one you like the best, and you think you'd be the most comfy on for those 15k miles. but then again, I dont ride hard on the street anymore. I save that for the track. Myself? maybe I'm getting old, my street ride is a FZ1. Why? its comfy. I'm a big guy, its a big guy sized bike. The handling needed help, so I put some $ into the forks and shock to get them up to my liking. Plus, it was the closest bike to my ole S3T, but had more power, better realibility (percieved or otherwise, it was an isue for me), is quieter (yes that was an issue for me too), and had a big knowledge base and usergroup behind it. | ||
| Choptop |
ahhh, if its not REPLACING the M2 (a mighty fine bike in its own right).... XB, 954... pick yer flavor. and yes, the 954 is a suprising bike. | ||
| Tramp |
gentlemen.... GENTLEMEN: It's a motorcycle, for pete's sake. ...I, as yet, have no opinion, as I've not ridden that one yet. no wee-wee on no graves | ||
| Tripper |
Badweb as Sacborg. o lord. | ||
| Tramp |
it's everywhere, believe me. there's a guy on ATC's forum who's crowing about how badly the ulysses sucks....based on....you know..... the pictures  | ||
| Lovematt |
No argument from me on the handling of the XB (both R and S). These bikes are the most solid handling bikes wether turning or rolling in a straightline that I have ever experienced. On top of that the older Buells were the best before I got a chance to experience the newer ones... (Message edited by lovematt on August 01, 2005) | ||
| Slaughter |
The XB is the best handling motorcycle in my garage. | ||
| Jon |
Chop "so lets flip it... who here thinks the XB is best cornering bike ever, and why? (other than the article says so). anyone?" I do. I believe that BIKE magazine (a world renown motocycle periodical) and it's crack staff of testers and riders and writers sincerely believes that after taking on all comers. I think that is just great and great for Buell. What next? | ||
| M1combat |
To quote Vik... "Wow" I really didn't think this would become a peeing contest of such epic proportions (no pun intended), and Chop... I sincerely apologize for that. That's quite un-called for. You are correct, you did "just" ask a reasonable and "seemingly" simple question. I did see the "overly optimistic" remark as a jab at the XB. I can take those... really... I can  . It certainly elicits a response however, and I think it would be reasonably safe to assume that you knew it would. I doubt that you expected my response to be exactly positive... I maybe OVER-reacted (apparently I'm prone to it when these XB's are the subject), but I suppose what's done is done. My apologies for the over reaction bit. Now for the reaction bit... I'm all for everyone having their own opinion. I may not agree with it, but I will indeed fight to the death for your right to express it. More than a couple moto rags and moto journalists seem to have gotten it so far. It's not just me. What do YOU see as the handling deficiencies of the XB platform? Specifics if you will. I am truly interested in hearing the heart felt opinion of someone with more experience than I have... No joke. I plan on doing as many track days as I can before the local race series down here starts up again. I would have done so earlier this year, but my girlfriend and I have just FINALLY found a nice place to live and I've finally worked myself back to where I'm only spending about 40% of my money surviving. The rest is play money  . In any case, I probably haven't shown it as yet, but I DO value your opinion. You may not be able to convince me your RIGHT ... but I'm all ears anyway. | ||
| Danny |
7-29-05 1:51pm Blake posts cover of BIKE magazine 2:54pm M1Combat "Beetlejuice's" Chop 3:37pm Chop asks a question I perceive as innocuous. 3:40pm Anonymous answers question with ambiguous answer. 3:42pm Chop replies to Anon's answer, complete with smiley. 3:51pm Anonymous gets snide. 4:29pm Chop replies in a civil manner. 4:41pm Another snide Anonymous post. 5:00pm All Hell breaks loose. 8-02-05 1:10am Realizing my kind is neither wanted nor welcome here, I decide to go back to my corner of the web. See you on the road, but if you want to find me online, you know where I'll be. Danny 95 S2 02 V-Strom Big wheels rollin', big wheels rollin', movin' on | ||
| M1combat |
Oh, and it WOULD have been cool if you had offered congratulations to Erik and the engineering teams for getting MORE THAN ONE article to publish text stating that the XB is indeed the best handling and/or cornering bike there is. | ||
| Oldguy |
Haven't followed this thread much, but my OPINION is: It is Bike Magazines OPINION that the Buell is the best cornering ROAD bike made in the past 100 years. (Says so right on the cover of the mag.) Others may have a different OPINION. As for me, I haven't ridden ALL of the bike manufactured in the past 100 years (must have been a heck of a pain getting all of those bikes together for the comparison) and with my numb butt, probably couldn't tell the difference between the best and the worst. I do think that this will sell a lot of magazines and cause many heated letters to the editor to be written. Wonder if they counted on that? Congratulations to Buell. I hope the publicity creates a lot of interest. I hope when those prospective customers walk into the HD/Buell dealership that they find a salesperson who knows Buells. Glenn - This has been my OPINION, that is, if I am entitled to one. |
