| Author | Message | ||
     Firemanjim |
Chop,that's what made me so mad.I know you are a Buell fan!! | ||
| Imonabuss |
Chop, I have. Ridden Supersport, Superbike, and Formula 1 motorcycles, past and current, that is. And I'll bet the guys at Bike have, too. If you've ridden all the bikes above you are probably wealthier or more fortunate than many on this board. However, if you think these all handle better than a Buell, I cannot imagine why. I happen to think the XB handles much better than a Mille, for example. Not a little better, much better. The Mille is a big, heavy handling bike that can't change lines at all. I think the XB handles better than a 998 or 999 as well, since the Ducatis push the front end really bad at speed and take tremendous set-up time to get the front end right. There are lots and lots of examples of Milles and Ducatis being beaten in European club races by Buell XBs. It sure wasn't horsepower that did that. I think the XB handles better than an R1 or an R6, and yes, ridden on both street and track. Are many of these faster motorcycles, capable of faster lap times on many tracks? Yes, but there are lots of straightaways on those tracks. That still doesn't change my opinion that the XB is the best handling motorcycle I have ever ridden. It goes on any line you want, can change lines at will in the middle of a corner, is tremendously stable (MUCH more than say a GSXR), etc. I'll bet I have much more in the way of race and street miles on performance bikes than you, and I'll bet there are bunch of guys at Buell faster and more experienced than you as well, and they ride and test the competition with the goal of being the best. So, Fireman says you are a Buell fan. I haven't seen it in this string, that's for sure! Why don't you wait for the article, and back off the attack. Because, indeed, you started it, and continue it. | ||
| Cataract2 |
anyone try an FZR 400? Not the 400 but the 600 here. Good handling machine. Buell feels way better than it though. Course, I would expect that from a newer machine design. | ||
| M2nc |
Has anyone considered that most illusive of measurements, where you measure the ease of handling. A very common comment with those testing XBs is how easy it is to ride the bike fast. It may be that stability and easy of maneuvering that Bike mag was using to crown the XB the best handling bike. If more people can ride the bike fast, is that a measure of its superior handling? I know the first time I rode an XB9R, I was going 70+mph through 20mph ess turns and the bike had more. The most impressive thing about the bike is that I really did not have to think about how I was going to set up the bike for the next turn. I just leaned into the turn and the bike took the right line. A mesh of man and machine. Not even my M2 is so transparent to my slightest corrections. So if a bike is the easiest to ride fast, even if its not the fastest, is it the best handling bike? Maybe! | ||
| Snail |
I can only speak with crediblity about my own experiences, I bought new, and still own, a 1999 Buell S-3. Compared to either my Hayabusa or my GSXR its not a contest, the Suzukis are much better handling bikes. Haven't ridden any of the newer models, but I'm sure thinking I'd like to have a Uly. That looks like my kind of bike. One thing I always enjoyed was off road riding my Buell, loved not having a fairing and loved the torque, hated the constant nag that if might/would/could break down. Sounds like the newer bikes are running better than the old tubers. | ||
| M1combat |
They DO seem to be yes  . | ||
| Jon |
Hey Chop, if you're referring to my remark about naysaying, I wasn't an accusation and I wasn't even necessarily aiming that at you (I meant it in general) although you certainly fit the description in this thread.  What I have seen since Laguna is a constant stream of arguing (by a certain few) for arguing sake, against any positive word being spoken about Buell.  That's what you're doing here, in my opinion. What's your point? That BIKE can't be right? How about some thread champagne for a friend that has made the grade? You have a different opinion, that's cool! You have a right! But this is a thread where this accolade is being celebrated. It's just needless to crash the party, that's all. It's really that simple. Maybe I have wrong expectations of what the temperature of a Buell enthusiast website should be....Nah, I know exactly what the temperature should be. As far as personal attacks, etc. That simply is not happening here. An exchange of opinions fired in rapid succession may generate some heat, but no one is being harmed. Now then, KOOL-Aid for everyone!! (Message edited by Jon on August 01, 2005) | ||
| Choptop |
yep my point is... as I stated before, the motoring press has gone from overly pesimistic to overly optimistic about the Buell. To answer others, I havent been putting down Buell since Laguna. I questioned Eriks comments about the Buell front end, and the attitude he took during his presentation. As to me being a Buell fan, if you dont know that, you havent been around here very long. As to being fortunate, I am. I am in a unique position that allows me to ride just about any bike I like. Its through a combination of circumstances, being a trackday instructor, being a racer, having a samll bit of disposable income, having a job that lets me work on motorsport media.... all conspire to put my arse in the seat of alot of motorcycles. as to the FZR.. the 600 and 400 are different bikes. The 400 has an alum frame, while the 600 is steel. The 400 is a very capable machine. Ther are some cavets...... its great for the 80's tech that is in its front end, and its sprung (stock) for a LIGHT rider. Sort that out, and its a fine trackday weapon. Flicakble? uhhh, yes. Dont hold a candle to a new supersport machine though. I'm not the fastest rider by far, but then again, I aint the slowest either. I dont claim to be an "authority" on anything other than what I like. But I can offer an insight here and there. Consider the source when you read my opinions, also consider the source of others that post. as far as opinions... The XB handles fine. Is it the best ever? In my opinion, no. I prefer a Gixxer or the Mille for serious riding. An 04 Gixxer changes direction like its wired to yer brain, and is stable as all get out. The Mille isnt as flickable, but is absolutely imposible to upset midcorner. I'm a big boy, and I can change body position mid corner and not upset the maichine. I can change line mid-corner without fear of pushing either end. You give a bit of side to side for that stability, but its there. On a high speed course, give me that any day... The R6? a friggin feather weight scalple. Too light for me, I over power it by a long shot. But telepathinc steering, and you can put it on a postage stamp sized patch of track in mid corner. as to XB's beating Mille's and 999's? Hmmm, I can only say that has to be some poor riding by the Mille and XB pilots... over here its all an XB can do to hang with SV650's (think FUSA Thunderbike and AFM F4). | ||
| Anonymous |
Chopchop, You are not fast enough or experienced enough to puff up your own credibility. Anyone who says a Mille is perfect just plain can't ride at the edge. Willow Springs is not the world. Long straights do not make for cornering. The tracks in Europe do. It's unfortunate that you choose to put yourself up as a guru of riding to the folks here when obviously you aren't. I mean, c'mon and read your terms: "telepathic", "postage stamp", a "scalpel". Ooooooh!!! What a joke. Go back to writing motorsports media for the imports, but leave the real riding abnd journalism to the pros. | ||
| Snail |
Anon., I ride with Chop from time to time and know him to be a pleasent and straight up guy. Why you breaking his balls? You're being a bit sensitive I suspect. Chop, (Alan), at least has a name. He doesn't hide behind a wall. I guess anon. people can be whatever they like because they're not accountable. | ||
| Jon |
BTW, Let's get back to the original intent of this thread, which is a celebration of the fact that the Buell XB12R has been declared the best handling bike ever according to BIKE magazine. Champagne? | ||
| Court |
>>>> a Hayabusa handles better than a Buell? Get the popcorn dear, this is gonna be GREAT! See, this is where, no matter how hard I try to read and believe the internet, I end up spitting coffee. | ||
| Choptop |
Chopchop, You are not fast enough or experienced enough to puff up your own credibility. Anyone who says a Mille is perfect just plain can't ride at the edge. Willow Springs is not the world. Long straights do not make for cornering. The tracks in Europe do. It's unfortunate that you choose to put yourself up as a guru of riding to the folks here when obviously you aren't. I mean, c'mon and read your terms: "telepathic", "postage stamp", a "scalpel". Ooooooh!!! What a joke. Go back to writing motorsports media for the imports, but leave the real riding abnd journalism to the pros. Please post where I said the Mille is perfect. Riding it to the edge? Hmmm, ok, what is your impression of riding it to the edge? or have you? bet not. Have you even seen a Mille in person? as far as me being fast enough, my racing record is online, check it yourself. If you'd like to test my speed, that can be arranged as well. You might beat me, you might not. Like I've said, I'm no the fastest, I'm not the slowest. OPen invitation to a race. Throw down or shut up. I 've never said Willow Springs is the World. Nor does it have long straights. You obviously dont know the track. I dont only race at Willow, there are a few others thrown in for good measure, again feel free to check my record. Tracks in Europe have just as many curves as say... Oh, Sears Point, Laguna, T-Thill, Button, Willow... Read again, I never said I am a guru, I said I've ridden this bikes, these are my impressions. I never said I write for a living. Yes, to me, the R6 does indeed feel like a scalpel. It takes only a slight body twitch to make it change lines mid corner, hence the "telepathic" comment. If you have any of your own impressions that sum up the handling of these bikes, please feel free to write them. But I fear you dont, and you wont. That would be too real for someone who doesnt even have a name, a face, or from your posts... two I.Q. points to rub together. In short, until you add ANYTHING to this discussion, feel free to... well, I'm not going to post something nasty here cuz Blake wouldnt have it, and I'll live by the rules of his board. but in short, you got nothing. You are nothing. You dont have a name or a word to say. Thank you, drive through. | ||
| Snail |
Court, I can assure you that my Busa out corners and out handles my '99 S-3, (as did my Gixer prior to turning the Gix into a LSR project.) If you don't believe me just hop on a plane and pop on out here and try it for yourself. Note, I said MY S-3, not any other Buell, MY '99 S-3. I qualified that in my original post. The footpegs on my s-3 rub before the bike gets leaned over very far. The third gear shift on my Buell takes deliberate concentration. The frame flexed so much on hard corners that the swing arm got scratched and I had to add the Bartels alum stiffeners. My Buell shakes so bad it makes my hands go to sleep. The back brake doesn't work at all, and the front brakes are weak. I said it and I meant it. My Hayabusa out performs and handles better than my S-3. Period. | ||
| Choptop |
Thanks Snail. As far as ball breaking, I wouldnt even call what annon. is doing 'ball breaking'... if it is, its sophmoric at best. Ball breakng is a fine art, one not everyone can master, myself included. To start, the best ball breaking requires at least a cornel of truth that once pointed out will get under the skin of the subject. That has yet to be displayed in any of Annons' posts. for reference, think about what MikeyP would say if he were trying to break my balls. Its a far cry from what Annon has posted. Which mainly ammount to wild swings in the dark. and he/she/it has resorted to the crutch of all when they have no point to address the subject... the personal attack. I've retorted in kind, cuz its fun, and cuz, well he/she/it chooses to hide their face, so why not rub a little mud on the fake picture of a person on the internet wall? | ||
| Choptop |
so round and round we go... but yet no one posts what the article says... or has anyone even read it? (Message edited by Choptop on August 01, 2005) | ||
| Choptop |
actually no Jon, I wasnt speaking to your ney sayer comment, I didnt see that one.. i think I was speaking to Blakes. | ||
| Jon |
I'll second Snail's comment about Chop. Been around him several times and always a pleasure. I think the heat is being generated due to the fact that we've only just begun to enjoy this accolade for Buell and now we're in a rowe over whether those guys at BIKE have any real basis to have the opinion that they do. Others have differing opinions, OK...no problem..a slap on the back and a nod of recognition. But should the present topic be dilluted or derailed in the process? I hope not...I for one would like to party on this one for a while longer. Maybe we have a different thread for the free and valid experiences of others that can be debated, masticated, and deliberated so we can leave this thread intact. Just seems a shame to gut this thread of it's original contents for the sake of an arguement. BTW Snail, The article refers to the XB series, not the old Tubers that you and I have. | ||
| M1combat |
"as I stated before, the motoring press has gone from overly pesimistic to overly optimistic about the Buell. " How can you be sure? You keep asking people if they've brought YOUR bikes to their limits. Why? We haven't been the ones bashing them. Admittedly, you are bashing the XB somewhat mildly, and sometimes just by inuendo, but why can't you just say "Hmmm, a trusted magazine seems to like them quite a lot, maybe I should give them another cahnce" or at least something to that effect. We (for the most part anyway...) just sit here and think "Wow, aint it cool... etc...". I have a better idea... Why don't YOU ride a Buell to as close to it's limits as you can (and you haven't been there unless you break a few... you know that) and open your freakin' eyes? You may be a Buell fan... It doesn't sound like it, but maybe you are. Fine. Put YOUR money where YOUR mouth is and go ride a damn XB w/ something other than D207's AND tune the suspension to yourself (keep in mind, it's somewhat sensitive to style and mass of the pilot). I don't mean to try someone else's. I mean go buy one, put some good tires on it and then ride them off of it a few times. See how you feel THEN. You've given Aprilia that much right? But YOU are the Buell fan... Stop stealing my lines . "Thank you, drive through." P.S. What characteristics DO make a good handling bike in your book? I'm pretty sure that stability and maneuverability mid-corner will be the ones but what say you? | ||
| Buells Rule! (Dyna in disguise) |
Stop stealing my lines Chops been using that before you had even heard the word Buell, in the grand scheme of this net business you are a complete newbie. Chop has been around for quite some time & I think you should just back off. You bought your XB not that long ago & if I recall the story somewhat correctly you had a major pain getting it...wont go into details though. You dont have jack for experience on other bikes & want to try to jump in the ruckus & attack Chop with your rudimentary basic knowledge of bikes, in particular only 1 bike. Normally I'd just delete this kind of crap and suspend the author until he agrees to cease the posting of such crap on BadWeB. But this is the exact perfect example of the kind of inane bullshit personal attack from a cheerleader trying to stir up divisiveness on this board. So take notice all. I will not tolerate it. Greg, There is not a single redeeming fact containd in your post, nor anything pertinent to the topic of discussion. Your post above and those like it, devoid of any topic related information and designed solely for personal attack, is absolutely not welcome on this board. Truth be told, YOU are not welcome on this board. Not when you see fit to post crap like this.  Blake PS: Don't even argue with me, not here, not by email. Capice? (Message edited by blake on August 01, 2005) | ||
| Choptop |
Why don't YOU ride a Buell to as close to it's limits as you can (and you haven't been there unless you break a few... you know that) and open your freakin' eyes? ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ uhmmm, I have ridden a Buell close to the limits... thats the point. | ||
| Cowboy |
I would like to add my 2 cents worth to this. It is almost imposable to judge a bike unless the bikes aare set up for each rider by the same man. I ride a X1 set up for me by a raceing friend on metzler tires It is great,my son rides a XB12 firebolt that the same man set up for him he is 65 lbs heaver than me and is on dunlop tires. we switch often when out for a ride and neather is happy with the switch. you decide. | ||
| Daves |
Hey, Chop I see this thread is still going. NC30? Nope 998? Yep, not on a track though but I did ride a 996 but i was kind of slow then 999? Nope, I'd love to though R6? Yep, on a track GSXR 600? Yep, on a track also RC51 on a track GSXR1000 on a track X1 on track M2 on a track CBR600F3 CBR600F4 CBR600F4I CBR900 CBR929 Sean's R1 is a 02 or 03, Dyna, help me out. It is his race bike and it was very powerful but didn't handle the corners(for me) even close to the Buell. I also rode Hoban's race Buell that day and it also would've walked all over the R1 in the corners(again, for me)and I was being careful with it, they needed it to race a few days later. Sean can easily beat me with his R1 or when he had a SV650 race bike. He is a better rider than me(I'm still working on it) I still like the XB better than any of these bikes in the turns. Doesn't mean the other bikes are bad. Ride what you like | ||
| Daves |
See,  I am ahead of a metric bike! With "racing numbers" Photo from DVKphoto | ||
| Snail |
Looks like you're about to get lapped. | ||
| Imonabuss |
Of course, Snail. Every Buell out there is just a moving chicane for import riders. Freakin' unbelievable. | ||
| Buells Rule! (Dyna in disguise) |
Every Buell out there is just a moving chicane for import riders. So, you've been on the track with Mr. Saddlebags then?  Dave knows what im talking about...dude was scary, real scary. | ||
| Choptop |
Of course, Snail. Every Buell out there is just a moving chicane for import riders. Freakin' unbelievable. lighten up Francis... its a joke... | ||
| Daves |
That dude was scary! Nope not about to be lapped, as a matter of fact I am about to be passed, that is the last corner before the straight. He got me at the very end of it. No matter I just passed him back in turn 3, on the outside! | ||
| Daves |
PS, After passing him in turn 3 I never saw him again that session. I guess a 1.46 mile course with 9 turns didn't give him a big enough advantage. |
