| Author | Message | ||
     Thepup |
I keep reading about an article in Performance Bike magazine that has Buell coming in 14th in a 14 bike comparison.Hate to see that,but what can you do.Anyone read this article? | ||
| 12r |
They have their own test track laid out on a disused airfield and every month they put some new hottie thru its paces to see how fast it is. Although the XB is well down the list overall, it has the one of the highest speeds thru the corners but can't compete with 170+ mph top speeds. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/cgibin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=32777&post=439532#POS T439532 It's pretty much what you'd expect if you unleash a bunch of squids on the latest plastic. Personally, I couldn't give a **** about lap times - gimme a real road any day. | ||
| Dago |
I love my bike as much as anyone, but real roads have long straights too. More power is required. | ||
| Gonen60 |
Dogo, good point. everyone here likes to be FAST in the corners, but when straight line speed comes up it's a bunch of double talk. I also love my Buell as much as the next owner, but when you can only talk about corner speeds and we all start making excuses about the straights, their is something wrong. I to want more HP/power also. the streets and race tracks do have straights. more power would balance out the Buell. why only talk about corners... forget "own the corners" let's shoot for "own the roads" "Aim high" my Dad always said. | ||
| Spike |
Real roads also have speed traps, deer, and road hazards. You're welcome to go get arrested for 150mph+ speeds, but I'd like to keep my license (and my insurance) intact. In my case more power would simply be more of a liability and require more restraint. | ||
| 12r |
The track has a two-mile take-off/landing straight which means the IL4s are absolutely flat out along most of it. In the UK we don't have straights like this on public roads and since PB is a UK mag it makes their results pretty academic. | ||
| Benm2 |
I read some of the article, mostly just the Buell related parts. They DID say that it was the best handling current production chassis, or some such thing (paraphrasing), which was cool. Sure, real roads have straights. As mentioned above though, if you're pushing ANY of these bikes to their top speeds on public roads, you are taking some serious risks anyway. | ||
| Dago |
Yeah, the "I don't ride that fast", "You'll get a ticket", "You'll loose your license", "You're risking too much" cards are played here constantly when hp is brought up. Let's forget about that for just a moment and take note that there are most certainly times and places to go as fast as you want to go. My XB will not take me as fast as I want, nor will it accelerate me as quickly as I want 100% of the time. It certainly does so about 90% of the time. But it's when I find myself in the 10% bracket that I WANT MORE POWER. Your XB may have plenty of power for you. Great. But for me (10% of the time), and many others here, it does not. I love every other aspect of this bike. LOVE IT. So why can't Erik just bite the bullet and release an XB-like bike with oodles of power? You're guess is as good as mine. I'm the type of guy who wants to have 1 bike that does everything I want it to do. The XB is SO close. So I'm forced to either have 2 bikes(neither of which will be perfect for me), wait for Erik to give us more power, call Nallins and drop even more $ with questionable return, or shut the hell up and ride what I have. I've obviously yet to decide. But this XB will be in my garage for quite some time to come regardless of what I do. | ||
| Benm2 |
Well, I can't really disagree. Realistically, a suzuki DR250 has "adequate" power for a street bike. Street 'cred' dictates something different though. You CAN get an XB to make more power, lots of it. But if its still not enough, then I guess you'll have to look elsewhere. The "buell's need more power" thing comes up everywhere, and from a marketing perspective at least its true. I can't imagine that more power is NOT planned though. The dual downdraft ram air setup on the FX bikes is WAAAY to cool to be a "race only" setup. Please, please, please, Erik, put it (and the no-see-um true downdraft heads they surely feed) on the XB... | ||
| M1combat |
"call Nallins and drop even more $ with questionable return" I don't think there'd be any question... The operative portion of your statement was "$" though. I'm not playing a card... I think that if my bike did more than 135 I would have done it maybe twice in the last two years. It would have been for about eight of the fifteen thousand miles total. That means it would have been going faster than it currently can for about .00053 percent of it's current life span. Getting to 135 quicker though... yeah, that would be nice  . | ||
| Thepup |
I also seen where the Buells came in almost last in braking distance. (Message edited by thepup on July 08, 2005) | ||
| Dago |
M1, actually the operative portion was "$ with questionable return." I would love to have the warm-fuzzies that Nallins products in the hands of the one mechanic I know and trust would give me my 120 rwhp reliably. Unfortunately I don't. Am I just dead wrong though? Can any decently capable mechanic get the job done? Will Nallins work with him? Will I actually get 120 rwhp? Will my bike maintain it's longevity? Will it still be comfortable to cruise with through the country? As you can see, for me the return is very questionable. But that doesn't mean it won't all work out in the end.  | ||
| Sleeper_777 |
And one article I read said to eat dog crap cause it tastes great... Too many editors, too many paid advertisers, too many big butts sticking up on the back of rice rockets. Go ride several and get what inspires your confidence and ability levels. And don't stop taking motorcycle classes. | ||
| Daves |
Dago, You have mail. | ||
| Cataract2 |
I also seen where the Buells came in almost last in braking distance. This kinda makes me raise my eyebrows just a bit. I wonder how much time they actually spent on the bikes. | ||
| Buells Rule! (Dyna in disguise) |
Here's a question. why is that when this same magazine posts a test regarding nothing but corner speeds & the Buell excels, well then everyone is posting results & mentioning how fair & unbiased they are. Yet when they do another test & your bike of choice doesnt fair so well then they didnt spend enough time on the bikes or they are pandering to their advertisers...BTW Buell is a big advertiser in their magazine. | ||
| Dago |
That's because Buell's are simply the best. Don't you know this by now after being such a long-time member here? | ||
| Krassh |
Just resurrected by '93 GTS1000 with new plastic because of a low speed get off. I have not been on the bike in almost a year. Love my XB but I still love my GTS1000 as well.  | ||
| 12r |
Is it me or is it getting hot in here ? Intentionally or not, an American company has created what is probably the ultimate motorcycle for the traffic-infested roads in England and parts of Europe. Yes it lacks power when compared to bleeding-edge rocket ships but who cares ? It is not a broadsword to slash and bludgeon thru all in its path but rather a rapier to thrust deep into the heart of the countryside and withdraw without loss of blood. There, I've gone all poetic. Y'all have a great weekend. | ||
| M1combat |
"Yes it lacks power when compared to bleeding-edge rocket ships but who cares ?" Squids. The song remains the same. Power is useless when leaned over. ANY motorcycle can keep itself upright in a straight line. There are only two ways to differentiate... Power and handling. Everyone THOUGHT that the Japs and Italians were going for BOTH, but they weren't, just making subtle refinement to a box that they all figured they had pretty close to perfect . Most companies choose power because it's a LOT easier. All you have to do is run a balancing act between component price and purchase price vs. your competitors... No REAL thinking involved in making power. There's certainly thinking involved in making power at a competitive price though, and that's where their thinking was pointed. As long as your bike handles as well (read - Pretty much the same) as theirs then why rock the boat when you have the vast majority of the buying public convinced that they can't handle any better or that all bikes are far superior to the general populations ability to ride them? Buell comes along and builds a bike that's both easier to ride fast AND more capable on the limit and people start bitching about it's lack of power... I say they're jaded squids. The XB isn't meant to be a race bike (although it makes a good one with more power). Streets aren't for racing. That said... The XB keeps up with whatever has thus far been thrown at it on my favorite eleven mile stretch of road regardless of displacement or class... I only have ~17K miles of street riding experience (15 of it in the last two years, the other two spread out over the three prior to that). It's not ME... The bike is EASY to ride fast. Will an XB keep up with an R1 on the track? It depends on the track. Will an R1 keep up with an XB on the street? It depends on the street. (Message edited by m1combat on July 08, 2005) | ||
| Dago |
I want to take the cake and eat it too. But I've never been one to be satisfied. And I'm not talking about street racing. I'm talking about wanting the power that 10% of the time where it's appropriate and safe. So I guess I'm a squid because I want my bike to be perfect for me. The XB is one step (~25rwhp) away from that. And since it's so close, I sit in the camp of cheering to Erik for more ponies as apposed to completely jumping ship on the brand. But I'm very happy to hear that your XB is perfect for you. Maybe one day I'll find one like that for myself. BTW, I understand all of the virtues the XB brings on the table. I humbled a few i4's during my last track day. Gobbling those guys up through the tight stuff is fun. What was more fun was talking about the pluses and minuses of each bike type in between sessions. We all had an open mind that lead to a better understanding of motorcycling in general. | ||
| Benm2 |
C'mon! Do you really beleive that? In 1982, a top-of-the-line AMA Superbike made 150rwhp, now you can buy streetbikes that do the same. Also, if it were that easy, why wouldn't the Buell's have more now? While the Japanese may all be pushing the same edge, it is the edge. The MV1000, for example, costs THOUSANDS more than a GSXR1000, and makes less power. Economies of scale, blah blah blah, but the bike has enough cost associated with it that it should be superior in every respect. Maybe that power thing is more difficult than you portray. | ||
| Bigj |
The PB showdown specifically timed the bikes through the twistiest, slowest section named "The Vulcans". The Buell was the second slowest through that section, a scant 2/100's of a second faster than the 'Busa, which was the slowest. The Buell's overall lap speed was 15 seconds slower than the next slowest bike, the Daytona 650. The Buell's stopping distance was 5 meters longer than the next worse bike, the Hayabusa. The 40-120 mph top gear test? Buell came in second to last, ahead of the Daytona 650. Before you start doubting the mag, this mag's test last year, that included the Buell, is actually available on the Buell website. Just food for thought.  (Message edited by bigj on July 08, 2005) | ||
| Buellishxx |
It wouldn't take much to make the xb12 a real "allround" bike. Here's my suggestion to the motor company: 1 - six speed transmission (overdrive) 2 - 20-25 more hp 3 - 1500 more rpm All of these relatively easy at the factory level. Six speeds are available from Baker, so I'm sure h-d could fit somethng in there. HP and RPM could be coaxed out of a little more compression, some more head work/exhaust and some balancing. I know I would be quite content if I could "cruise" @ 100mph @ around 4k RPM. More top end is one of those things that's nice to have when you need it. There aren't too many times when you can go flat out, but when the opportunity is there, it's there! | ||
| M1combat |
What tires? I know, it sucks to have to change tires to make a bike really handle, but that's the case with the XB. I don't like it either. They should use 208GP's or just 208's as the OEM tire IMO (quite frankly, VERY proper technique will ALSO cure a good deal of the problems with the D207's save the wet grip). "C'mon! Do you really beleive that?" Yes as a matter of fact. All of those manufacturers that are boasting MASSIVE amounts of more power have race bikes that make a good deal more power in race trim (as does Buell). The production bikes are not at the bleeding edge of HP production (that edge most certainly DOES require a good deal of thinking). They are at the bleeding edge of HP/cost/bottom line vs. the competition. "Also, if it were that easy, why wouldn't the Buell's have more now? " Because Buell made the choice to use a torque engine as opposed to a high revving HP engine. Why don't any of those bikes make good power at 15 miles per hour? Why are they bad STREET bikes? Look at it this way... We make ~90-92 HP from ~1.2L. An '06 Z06 makes what... ~500HP from ~7L? That's ~71.5 HP/L for the Chevy. That's ~75.0 HP/L for the Buell. The Chevy is water cooled... I think the Buell is doing pretty good. "While the Japanese may all be pushing the same edge, it is the edge." No it isn't. It's the edge of THEIR box. Buell made a new box. Buell's box is better for your average corner. The Japanese box is better for your average straight (assuming it's fairly long and not too close to any corners). Are you aware of the fact that the current Buell engine is 50 pounds heavier than an R1 engine? Are you also aware of the fact that the bikes are pretty close to the same weight? What does that mean? That means that Buell is FAR beyond the Japanese/Italian "edge" in chassis engineering. Mark my words... The Japanes and Italians are SCARED of the day Buell designs a proper race engine that's the same or similar weight to the R1 engine and fits the XB frame. It won't even NEED to make as much power . Which would make it through a good section of tasty twisties faster... A Plymouth Hemi Cuda (take your pick of whatever year you would like) or a '79 Ferrari 308 GTB w/ four webber carbs? Which do you think would make it around the IOM-TT faster? The Nordschleife? | ||
| Midmofirebolt |
Correct me if I'm wrong, but 25-30hp would put us at about the same power as a Duc 999. From my understanding, Ducati and even the jap manufacturers have got just about everything there is to get out of the twin(for the most part, there is always more but cost is a factor). Now I remember reading somewhere that you have to get the valves adjusted or something every 5,000 miles on the Ducati, plus the normal stuff, while when I hit 5k, I changed the oil, checked to make sure nothing was falling of the bike and was pretty much on my way. I know we all love our bikes and we all want improvements, but I doubt that many of us want to deal with the extra service($) and extra cost(Duc 999 is $18k, the 999s is $23k and the R is $30k) for 25hp. I know this doesn't take the 4 bangers into account, but really, would it be a buell with more than 2 cylinders? | ||
| Vonsliek |
er .. the buell race bikes are around 135 hp & 178mph, right?! hal's pa & company .. destroke yer bike, bore it out .. make small changes to stuff, like nikasil coating on cyl bores .. its all out there .. precise #'s .. the bigger race bikes rev freer & higher & have lightened cranks .. i priced it out once & it adds abt $10k + labour. which u cld buy a new jap literbike & go faster on for less. ducati's & aprilia's run faster & have more hp & rev WAY higher & are BOTH vtwins .. the honda rc-51 is faster & a water cooled vtwin .. as are italians (in this instance). i KNOW buell cld run them into the ground .. chassis is first & handling, then power. perhaps its a prudent exercise on the buell company's management to see if a market exists in sufficient #'s to jstify development of a race-ready streetbike. i see harley are pushing the vrod derivatives harder & given computer aided engineering & fast prototyping, there is NO way buell/hd couldn't produce in short time a working smaller cpacity, faster revving revolution for the buell chassis. of course being a public company will slow things down .. didn't the revolution take 6 yrs to get to market?! wankers! seriously wonder if buell ever will be competitive against production 600's so long as hd run it .. afterall, why change when the world is buying more cruisers that are harley styled?! love it for what it is or spend the bucks to make it competitive & then, hence NOT a buell. | ||
| Vonsliek |
think of the buell as a fun, stonking torquer w/ BMX on steroids appeal! i do! | ||
| Midmofirebolt |
I like to think of it like a Viper. Attention grabbing looks, tire smoking power, American muscle and tons of fun(ok 400lbs of fun). Kind of like showing up to a black tie function in a wife beater and jeans. | ||
| M1combat |
I like to think of it like a Cobra... But that's just because I'm a Ford guy . I suspect that a lot of the people who don't REALLY like their Buells just don't have any good twisties anywhere near them. I have one other idea, but I'll just keep that one to myself... |
