| Author | Message | ||
     Dsergison |
just wanted to fill you guys in on my recent exhaust purchase fun. the games have just begun. I'll keep you up to date. the story begins at the bottom. I bought a new Wileyco racing exhaust for a stock street bike which I have run in five 20 minute beginner level track sessions with the north east sport bike club (NESBA) I have been in 3 track days in my life. I did not order a 5 year old muffler. Cas4, a dealer of your products, sent me a 5 year old model. It has an obvious design flaw. I work as a design engineer for Belcan Engineering Group. I have background in materials. Your front mount cracks initiated right through the termination of the weld as the muffler vibrated laterally. It's glaringly obvious that your own company discovered this flaw and redesigned the front mount considerably in order to avoid this failure. I have seen pictures of the redesigned mount online. It is unreasonable to compare my stock Buell with 4 team Wileyco race bikes. I fully accept seasonal inspection and possibly packing maintenance. I have only had it a couple weeks. To have to remove and repack the muffler in this time is totally unacceptable. I am willing to give the redesigned parts a chance. I would like to be able to tell people on the Buell groups about how good your warranty policy is. I would like to keep the muffler, it is beautiful. Sincerely, Dan [Sergison, Daniel P.] -----Original Message----- From: Bill Johnson Wileyco USA [mailto:Bill.Johnson@wileyco-racing.com] Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 11:30 AM To: Sergison, Daniel P. Subject: Re: Buell X1 stainless exhaust front mount failure Importance: High Hello Dan, I was passed a copy of your letter and I thought I would let you know who we are doing with a 4 team Wileyco race bikes. First off we expert race 3 bikes and the 4th bike intermediate. The tracks we race in Europe test DB ratings on our Wileyco mufflers at the beginning and end of the race and they can only differ 15% plus noise. In short we change our mufflers every race and even with the high tech packing it barley makes the noise pass at the end of the race. Team Buell Europe runs our full race exhaust dual system and the change both mufflers packing every race also. Dan its normal to check the packing and plus the fact you have a muffler over 5 years old. We have updated our packing types since then maybe 10 times. Take Care and hope I helped. Bill Johnson Engineering Wileyco Europe Wileyco USA / Europe www.wileyco-racing.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Sergison, Daniel P. To: service@wileyco-racing.com Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 5:36 PM Subject: RE: Buell X1 stainless exhaust front mount failure You want me to remove the front of the muffler (the rivets) to get a picture of the packing? This muffler only has 350 miles on it and my engine is stock. I did not buy a Wileyco racing exhaust to repack it every 45 minutes! OK. I will send pictures tonight. Pleast let me know how long it will take to get the new style elbow after you get my pictures tonight. I have a non-refundable track day scheduled for June 25. I need something by then. Thanks, Dan -----Original Message----- From: Service / Wileyco Italia s.r.l. [mailto:service@wileyco-racing.com] Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 1:44 AM To: Sergison, Daniel P. Subject: Re: Buell X1 stainless exhaust front mount failure Please send photos 99% sure the problem is the loss of packing in the muffler and then the muffler starts with immense vibration cracking the front mount and then also destroying the internal baffles. Packing, This can last up to 4,000 kms or as little as 45 minutes on a race track depending on the bike and the rider. Lets see your photos and we will go from there but if there is no packing inside the muffler then it wont make warranty.. Carl Technician #11 Wileyco USA / Europe ----- Original Message ----- From: Sergison, Daniel P. To: Service / Wileyco Italia s.r.l. Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 3:15 PM Subject: RE: Buell X1 stainless exhaust front mount failure 0798 is stamped in a box on the warranty card, and the date is 04SET2001 I bought it from CAS4, Inc 139 143 C North Route 9W Stoney Point, NY 10980 845 786-0620 it was shipped to me on May 5 2005 Thank you, Dan [Sergison, Daniel P.] -----Original Message----- From: Service / Wileyco Italia s.r.l. [mailto:service@wileyco-racing.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 3:28 AM To: Sergison, Daniel P. Subject: Re: Buell X1 stainless exhaust front mount failure Importance: High Can you send me the frame number and date of manufacture printed on the warranty card please? Plus when and where did you purchase the system? Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: Sergison, Daniel P. To: service@wileyco-racing.com Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 8:27 PM Subject: Buell X1 stainless exhaust front mount failure I very recently purchased a Wileyco stainless exhaust for a 2000 Buell X1. I have been commuting with the exhaust for about 200 miles total. This week I took my bike to a track day, and after six 20 minute sessions the front mount has broken on each side where the hanger is welded to the pipe. I received the style with 4 socket head screws securing the front elbow flange. I am told there is a different design available and that it has a different front mount? I can provide receipt and warranty information and pictures if needed. Thanks, Dan | ||
| Koz5150 |
Dan, not that I am against you on this one, but did you read the post/topic I posted here about their new system? I think you need to be talking to CAS4 on this one since they are selling out of date/design mufflers. After my system broke (old system) I worked with WileyCo and they treated me great. The parts were less then one year old and they had just built the upgraded stuff. I also found that the front mount broke due to mounting it incorrectly. I had some strain on the front mount from not taking the time to get everything to fit right. They gave me a new system after I sent them pics of my front mount and the only thing I paid was shipping from Italy. But that was a few years ago. Anyway, what I really wanted to tell you was that I made my old system work for 1 year with a muffler clamp and a short piece of steel bolted between the clamp and the front mount on your bike. This should get you through the track day. I looked at that CAS4 stuff too, some sales people just suck. I am sure you are not the first guy that would tell them they are selling deffective exhausts... | ||
| Dsergison |
you told me so! --I was waiting for that. I did contact cas4 today and told them I wanted to know about their return policy. I can fix this thing myself I know by TIGing in a gusset that will prevent it from flexing through the weld area. but I don't want to do that to get by the track day and then have them say I voided my warranty down the line. Dan | ||
| Koz5150 |
I totally undersdtand. I used the muffler clamp method because it didn't damage the pipe to where it looked like it was altered. | ||
| Trojan |
I would love to know who 'Team Buell Europe' are, because in all our time racing the XB both in the UK and Italy I have never heard of an official Buell race team in Europe. | ||
| Dsergison |
even more  Bill, I slid the screen out yesterday and looked down there. The packing looks the same all the way down. When are you going to be satisfied? I think I am going to have to order a D&D exhaust today or I am going to be screwed out of next weekend. Not to mention my bike has been in my shop for a week now. High frequency resonance of the screen has nothing to do with it. The engine only turns 6700 rpm, that's not high frequency. The packing is like new, that's not it either. It's the Vtwin shake and the poor design of the old front mount. I had 14,000 miles on the stock (ugly, heavy) exhaust, It is not flexing the hanger through a weld. Sincerely disgusted, Dan -----Original Message----- From: Bill Johnson Wileyco USA [mailto:Bill.Johnson@wileyco-racing.com] Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 10:16 AM To: Sergison, Daniel P. Subject: Re: Buell X1 stainless exhaust front mount failure Check the rear end cap for packing. You will need to remove it and send Steve the photo. Once the packing is gone the screen vibrates at a high frequency. This vibration breaks the front mount and destroys the baffle and then the rear clamps. We race in Europe. 17 races each season. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Sergison, Daniel P. To: Bill Johnson Wileyco USA Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 4:08 PM Subject: RE: Buell X1 stainless exhaust front mount failure Bill, thanks for your time. I hope you have seen the pics I sent. My packing is like new. Frankly I don't understand how the wire screen inside has anything to do with the front mount. Is this screen the baffle you're talking about? I'm referring to this comment from your tech- (Please send photos 99% sure the problem is the loss of packing in the muffler and then the muffler starts with immense vibration cracking the front mount and then also destroying the internal baffles.) I got to look very closely at the broken mount and it runs right through the crater on the end of the weld and a inclusion on the other end. The front mount was redesigned to keep it from cracking because they cracked. I have seen the new design, it has no welds in the area that flexes. Buells vibrate immensely, packing or no packing. You sell exhaust systems for them. I ride a stock one and occasionally go to track days. Your marketing led me to believe this was perfectly reasonable thing to do with a performance racing exhaust. Cas4, a Wileyco dealer, lied to me and sent a really old model. (Our intermediate rider is a 17 year old girl and she's not riding all that hard) Well, thanks. I openly admit I am nowhere near as good as a 17 year old girl. I'm floundering around in beginner class track days with street bikes with the lights taped over and we aren't allowed to pass except for the straights and we have control riders who ride around with us to show us the lines. I don't race at all. off topic- Could you send me some more information on this Buell race class. do you mean FUSA thunderbike or something else? A lot of friends on the Buell boards would love to know more about it. Dan Sergison -----Original Message----- From: Bill Johnson Wileyco USA [mailto:Bill.Johnson@wileyco-racing.com] Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 8:30 AM To: Sergison, Daniel P. Subject: Re: Buell X1 stainless exhaust front mount failure Importance: High Dan, Our intermediate rider is a 17 year old girl and she's not riding all that hard but we still change the packing every race. In fact in the super stock class we see all the riders with aftermarket exhausts changing their packing every 3 races. These are Buells only races. The Jap bikes are a lot less of packing eaters compared to the v-twin. In regards to design. We changed the design not for design flaws but to help people who don't check their packing. The new style can resist longer with no packing BUT the inner baffles will still give away in the end. Be advised we have one shop worker (welder) with over 8,000 kms on a old series muffler like yours with stock packing! He checks it every year but the packing has lasted. It all depends on the rider and his habits. Bill Johnson Engineering Wileyco Europe Wileyco USA / Europe www.wileyco-racing.com | ||
| Dsergison |
pics    | ||
| Dsergison |
I fixed it my self. I fully boxed it in. No more flex. None. I would have prefered to have the controlled flex of the newer design to protect the other components maybe? Oh well. This part won't be the problem again.   | ||
| Koz5150 |
Looks good. Much better then my muffler clamp fix! | ||
| Awprior |
Dan, A little tough to tell by the pics, but from your description, the weld failed at the tails of the welds, across the mounting bracket itself? You've GOT to have a wrap around the bracket or a continuous weld like you did for that design to survive on a Buell. Have to. Ending the weld where it originally did induces a crack to the weld. Just a matter of time until it broke. Nice work fixing it yourself, though. I doubt you'll have problems now. Notice, I said nothing about packing. Alex | ||
| Koz5150 |
The new style bracket wraps all the way around. I guess that is what WileyCo discovered also.   | ||
| Awprior |
Ken, That's how it should have been done, even with the tack welds. This stuff is what a do for a living. New design, great. Old design, not so great unless it's going to be a centerpiece. Alex |
