| Author | Message | ||
     Ceejay |
yea i got lucky on my chain tensioner, I was letting my bike run at idle just after winter, just sitting in the garage thumping along, and kept hearing a strange noise from the primary every so often, after shutting her down and pulling the primary i found out what the noise was. Looked to be broken for some time judging by the top inside of the case, good call on the bolts, will probably also check the little rubber thingy coming out in the same area. Is this crank seal a common problem? | ||
| Reepicheep |
The CityX, at 4k miles, has been virtually flawless (the only problem has been a sticky tach needle, just like my first Yamaha had, which I am not inclined to fuss about). Based on current projections, I expect to have fewer issues with the 9sx in the first 20k miles then I had with the M2 in the first 5k miles. Crank seals, like rocker box gaskets, blow like clockwork (though the crank seals last a lot longer then the original paper rocker box gaskets). | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Bill, I might argue the stator replacement. Most have failed due to chafing on the wires leading from the stator under the clip that holds them out of the way. If the wires don't short, the stator should have good life left. I modified the clip on mine so eliminate any possibility of it getting cut. You simply bend the edges up so they don't cut into the wires. I put a picture in the KV a while back. As you know the new crank seal is much better than the old style. The new one is a double lip seal, the old was a single. Ceejay, when putting in the new seal, make sure you put it in the correct way. The opening should go to the outside, not towards the crank flywheels. This becomes very apparent if you use the insertion tool as the lip of the tool has to seat down into the seal opening. When you are inserting the seal, make sure to lube the outer edge of the seal and race. Also make sure it inserts squarely or the rubber on the outside edge will tear. Don't ask how I know for sure.. All in all, it's an easy fix. By the way, you need to pull the clutch too. No big deal, just another snap ring and nut. Since you are that far, you may as well pull the tranny and check your output bearing. Put some grease in it before you put the tranny back in. Cheap insurance against bearing failure and only takes another 10 minutes or so total. Good luck! Lots of pictures available in the KV about the whole procedure. Brad | ||
| Reepicheep |
All good advice BlueM2, I don't disagree. I would probably not have replaced the stator when I did mine, because I am a chonic cheapskate, but if somebody else told me they did it, I would be thinking "that's not a bad idea". I brought it up because on mine, I replaced the crank seal (wrong), a week after that I went back in to retighten the crank nut, a month later I replaced the crank seal again (right), and a month after that my stator blew (in the windings, not at that clip). I was getting REALLY sick of looking inside my primary. | ||
| Mikej |
I've got the primary cover off my M2 right now to replace the tensioner assembly to the one with the thicker support steel. The original one still looked good except for one corner of the teflon/plastic that appears to have chipped off somehow, looks like a corner got carved off about 1/8"-1/4" thick x 1/2"-1" long or so. I'm going to fish around in the cavity to try and find the errant piece. Don't feel the need to remove the clutch or main drive gear, nor to pull the tranny at this time, so I won't be doing that since I just want to put it back together since nothing looks or smells or sounds funny. I did pick up the newer shifter detent plate, but think I'll hold off on putting that in there at this time as well. Probably tempting fate with all this, but such is life at times and I've got other stuff to do.  (plus, not to mention that fact, I still can't find where I put my clutch spring compressor tool.)  | ||
| Reepicheep |
No need for a clutch spring compressor, just take the clutch pack, stator magnet cup, and primary chain off as a unit. So you need some other excuse  | ||
| Mikej |
"So you need some other excuse" Yes  . How about I just don't feel like doing it right now? Or I don't want to make or buy a sprocket lock tool right now? Or my tools are currently spread across three floors of the house, two garages, and multiple counties at the moment? Or, or, or, well, there are more, but basically I just don't feel like it right now.  | ||
| Ceejay |
Since my seal is leaking-haven't looked yet, is crankcase oil leaking into primary causing it to overfill, causing it to blow out vent. Not arguing at all, just wondering how you guys know this as I never would have thought about it. Since I have very little blowby out the breathers does this crankseal cause bottom end pressure to increase as I also have more pressure in the bag. Mostly to appease my own curiousity as I believe it's right. Also when Reep mentioned dangerous is that due to oiling the back tire? Or could something more catastrophic happen to the engine. | ||
| Road_thing |
Ceejay, you've got it right. Crankcase oil is overfilling the primary and the spillage could potentially throw oil on your rear tire. rt | ||
| Reepicheep |
Nothing potential about it... It will eventually oil down your rear tire. Probably not the whole thing, but enough to make things get squirmy when you are likely riding hard anyway. I just know it because it happened to me twice and I fixed it twice. 8k miles after the last fix, after tons of riding in the rain and multiple washes, I traded the cyclone in. The poor sales guy (Bill) at F&S Buell in Dayton, came back into the shop laughing, and holding the plate from the Cyclone that he had pulled off to return for me while I was doing paper work. The front of the plate was spotless (I had cleaned it up for them) and the back of the plate was covered in a thick goo of Mobil 1 gear oil and road grime. | ||
| Ceejay |
yea it has already almost got me a few times, that not so fun squirmy feeling pulling hard out of right turn, or the "wiggles" on sweepers. I guess I was just wondering if it would do something catastrophic to the motor. I ordered one yesterday from DaveS hopefully upon breaking in there I don't need anything else, I already have the updated primary gasket and tensioner, just reading the KV can make a person's wallet start to feel smaller just by looking. When you say dowel rod from tinker toys you're just talking about a blue or red or green right. I'm pretty much a shade tree mechanic with kids so those are my weapons of choice also. Thanks again for all the help/guidance. | ||
| Henrik |
Ceejay; I'll be sending the crank seal tool out to Hodakaguy - Tom - sometime this week. If you can wait until he's done with it, he can ship it to you. Then you can do the return shipping when you're done. Henrik | ||
| Ceejay |
Wow, thanks Henrik. This board rocks! I may have to depending on what I find huh? It always scares me after reading the KV....I will probably tear into it this weekend and see if I need anything else, so I will definitely get in touch with Tom. Thanks again. | ||
| Reepicheep |
LOL! You nailed it. I used a green one, use the other colors at your own risk. | ||
| Ceejay |
 | ||
| Court |
>>>This board rocks! That is an accurate statement. | ||
| Buellistic |
BUELLERs: If you'll would adjust you primary chains to 5/8" to 3/4" on the tight spot, it would help the following to last longer: STATOR/ROTOR(replacing the BATTERY every two years helps every thing in the electrical system ... FLYWHEEL SPROCKET SHAFT OIL SEAL ... PRIMARY CHAIN ADUSTING SHOE PAD ... "PLUS", not to forget the REAR DRIVE BELT(chain) by adjusting to 2" play on the tight spot(TUBE FRAME MODELs) ... In BUELLing LaFayette (Message edited by buellistic on June 07, 2005) (Message edited by buellistic on June 07, 2005) | ||
| Jackbequick |
Yesterday I started hearing a metallic clanking noise in my transmission. I would hear a few clanks just before and as I came to a stop. If I was not rolling or in neutral, nothing was heard. When I got home, I put it up on stands with rebar through the axle and I hear the noise when I put it in gear (tire turning but drive line not loaded). Noise stops when I pull the clutch in or go to neutral. Sounds like something loose in the transmission area. Today I check the primary chain, it was okay with no tight spots and not too loose. Lube level (Mobil 1 75W90) was right, I pulled the primary cover and the tensioner is fine, barely even scuffed (3,100 miles on bike). So I looked for something obvious in the gear and shifter forks and detent area but can see or hear anything. When I roll the tire by hand there is not noise at all, the output side is dead quite. Cycling the gears by hand and turning tire does not create the noise. Pulled the plugs and motored it over with the starter in 1st and 2nd and don't hear the noise. I'm thinking my next move will be to pull the crank pulley and clutch pack and look around better. Any suggestions? | ||
| Reepicheep |
Did you check the backplate for the tensioner? The shoe part is fine, it is the metalbackplate that cracks, and it can be pretty subtle if it cracks on the non visible side. They usually first break into a C shape. Could be pins backing out of the shift drum also, or something weird with the clutch plates. (Message edited by reepicheep on July 25, 2005) | ||
| Gundog |
Here's a question . My 99 M2 came back from the shop after a stator replacement. The gearchanges have been slow and balky. It's more difficult to find 1st when coming to a stop. I checked with the shop, and was told they filled the primary with Sport Trans. So, I drained and refilled with Mobil 1 expecting the smooth shifting to return. It helped, but not much. Linkage feels free, and clutch is adjusted properly. Any ideas? | ||
| Shotgun |
Possible over-tightened primary chain? | ||
| Reepicheep |
And give the mobil one time to work it's way around. | ||
| Jackbequick |
I looked the tensioner over real carefully, it is the old style and I'll replace it with the newer one, but it is not cracked or defective in any way. Like I say, only 3100 miles on it. I got the crankshaft nut off this evening, I have to get a 1-3/16 or 30mm socket tomorrow to get the nut off the clutch. Jack | ||
| Gundog |
I'll check the primary tomorrow. And then take a ride to distribute the oil all around. Thanks guys!! | ||
| Jackbequick |
I'm a little baffled now. I pulled the clutch and spent about 2 hours playing around with and in the transmission and can't seem to find anything that would be the cause of that noise. Rolled through all the gears and looked for a dragging gear or shift fork and can't find one. The two clips are in place, the shifting is smooth and easy, the pins the pawl work on are fully seated. It has the later shifter detent. That detent is sort of a wobbly fit on the end of the drum, I guess that is normal. Clutch pack is tight, no rattle or noise there. I had checked the chain for too loose before taking the cover off and it seemed fine. But I found some chain slap marks on the bolt boss above and just aft of the small cover. Those looked fresh, I'm hoping that was what I heard. I'm going to button it all back up and see if the noise is still there. Oh well, it gave me a chance to bond with the inside of primary and get some quality time with some parts I've never met before. At least they know I care about them... Jack | ||
| Reepicheep |
The wobbly detent plate is normal. Actually, so are the chain grooves in the cover Did you actually pull the tranny? The inside of the 5th gear drive assembly is worth checking if you are in that far already, and it would really let you give the rest of the tranny a really good inspection. The 5th gear drive assemblies are a weak link in the Evo drivetrain. | ||
| Jackbequick |
Thanks Bill, I did not pull the tranny. I'm going to pull it apart again and will pull the tranny this time. If I put it in gear (idling, rear wheel up on stands) there is a soft intermittent metallic clanking noise. I listened around with a dowel and can't localize it to either side or any specific area. Jack | ||
| Reepicheep |
That's annoying. At least it is straightforward to pull the tranny on a tuber... | ||
| Jackbequick |
Well I figured out my driveline noise and it turned out to be sort of dumb on my part. Tightening up the primary drive chain a little made the noise go away. I had the drive belt adjusted looser than called for as per the KV. Maybe a little too loose. So the loose drive belt, and a slightly loose primary drive chain, combined to let the primary chain slap a little as I slowed and stopped. When it was up on stands and I put it in gear, with no weight on the bike and a completely unloaded driveline, it worsened the problem. If I sat on the bike, put a light touch on the brake pedal to create some drag on the drive,give it just a little gas, everything quieted down. Why was the primary chain too loose? Because I was not lifting it firmly enough with my finger when I checked it for freeplay. I was lifting it too lightly and what I thought was about 3/4" of total up and down play was more like 1-1/4" of play. Thanks to John at Hancock Cycle for this piece of education. When I went for a test ride it was also shifting better. The 1st to 2nd clunk was much quieter and all the higher shifts felt smoother. So now I'm older and smarter. Grrr... Jack | ||
| Hans |
Hi Jackbequick, Congratulations and welcome to the club of Buell dumbo`s. So far two members: You and me.  Hans | ||
| Jonsbuell |
Hey is there an easy way to get the primary cover off my y2k cyclone hung up with the clutch cable mechanism. First time attempting to get it off have a gasket leak.Trying to unhook the cable end inside cover and remove assembly what are the next step's to remove cover service book is lame or maybe it's me ! LOL Thanx J.B. | ||
| Dave |
Primary tensioner has to be loosened and I've always unthreaded the clutch cable. DAve | ||
| Bluzm2 |
You are removing the clutch actuator right? The cover's not coming off if you don't. | ||
| Jonsbuell |
Thanx guy's i know about the chain tensioner was trying to get clutch actuator off book say's to turn clockwise something else i am missing? Is there a short cut to clutch cable removal or just loosen jam nut on down tube have not done this step yet (remove or loosen cable)The actuator is the main gig how to remove ?Thanx J.B | ||
| Jackbequick |
Screw the clutch cable adjuster all the way in (make the lever loose and floppy at the bar). Pull the thing with the spring that pushes against the cover off. Put a small flat bladed screwdriver in the screw and turn it clockwise and it will force the hex shaped adjuster thing to back out of the actuator (the screw rotates on a bearing, it is not threaded into anything on the other end), when the hex is clear of the actuator, you can unscrew it by hand. Slide the actuator out and off, unhooking the cable and the thing it attaches to from the arm. Unscrew the clutch cable where it enters the primary cover, you will have to rotate the entire cable housing along with the hex nut/fitting, they are free to turn in the support up by the adjuster and will rotate with some encouragement. The threaded portion is long, don't give up. Unlock the tensioner adjuster nut and back the adjusting bolt all the way down. If the muffler is still on and in the way, you can use a 1/4" hex bit and a 1/4" wrench. All the allen head bolts (11 small and two large?) have to come out and the cover should come off. Tap it with a rubber hammer or padded block of wood gently a few times if it is stuck on. Did you say you have a service manual? Jack | ||
| Jonsbuell |
Jackbequick thanx for the info did stop @ HD dealer to get new primary gasket did not need the upgraded chain tensioner they told me the deal with the screwdriver and acutator plate was easy to do just was not sure if i had missed something else. All back together no leak's woo hoo but exhaust is sitting to high need to rehang it better...... bummer....! J.B. | ||
| Jackbequick |
Good to hear it all back together. I have not pulled my muffler yet. I can get the drain plug out for oil changes and I use a 3/8" long piece cut off of a 1/4" allen wrench to turn the adjuster. The service man says to replace the clamp when you pull the muffler so I have been avoiding it. I clean any oil off the muffler with aerosol parts cleaner. That short piece of 1/4" hex is also good for taking the intake manifold off. If you have not changed the slow speed jet to a #45 and drilled the mixture adjusting screw, that will be something that makes a major difference in starting, warm up, and especially, slow speed smoothness. So when you pull the carb to change the jet, you'll also want to replace the intake manifold seals (air leaks there are not uncommon and also contribute to problems like rough idling and low speed stumbling). Jack | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Jack, Replace the clamp? Are you talking about the front muffler clamp? If so, your service guy is a couple of cans short of a six pack. I've had bot of my bikes off MANY times for numerous exhaust systems. Still using the same stock clamp. They don't wear out like a worm gear hose clamp. Don't even give it a second thought. Go for it. Brad | ||
| Phat_j |
it is rec. by the moco to replace the clamp every time, they are "one time use" now with that being said, go ahead and use it, i've done so many many times as well | ||
| Jackbequick |
Thanks guys, I assumed they were being reused. I'm a new Bueller, when I read that in my Service Manual I decided to try leaving the muffler in place and it is easy enough to do. I assume the clamp gets heat hardened and brittle eventually so the moco lawyers wanted to cover their butts in case one falls off. The little extra time I spend working around the muffler an cleaning some oil off of it is less than the time to remove and reinstall it. When I pulled the primary cover I draped a piece of 4 mil or so plastic over the muffler and that caught the worst of the mess. I simply threw it away when I was done. I've become mildly addicted to those cans of aerosol parts cleaner from VIP ($1.50 each on sale). The stuff is great for getting any kind of oily residue off of almost anything. Jack | ||
| Jonsbuell |
I think there talking about the rear hanger on exhaust. I have had mine off 3 times and one of the hanger nut's is stripped now ! Had to loosen header bolt's at head and move pipes down i ran it with no muffler sounded kul 2 ! Be careful with clearence on air box if your still running stock box i know most of us have changed them out for something cooler J.B. | ||
| Jackbequick |
No, its the clamp on the inlet end of the muffler (on the M2 anyway). That is the only part they say to discard when removing the muffler. It must be because of heat embrittlement, if that fell off the header might be a little loose on the muffler inlet pipe but I don't think there would be any danger of the muffler dropping down wit the two other supporting points it has. There is one description of an accident on the board where the front of the muffler dropped down, dug in, and "pole vaulted" rider off the bike. I don't remember the model or specifics. Jack | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Jack, That was a defective muffler, it broke at the can, not up by the header junction. No worries! |
