| Author | Message | ||
     M1combat |
"it seems that the arrogance of alot of people here is just plain irratating when we have to justify our bike being better than literbikes/etc.. " I don't think too many people make the mistake of comparing a stock XB to a litre bike too often around here... We all know that the big four litre bikes are faster (well, in a straight line anyway...). Dyna - Keep in mid that I said "Not TOO far off the mark"  . 85 or so HP is too far off the mark . It wasn't a blanket statement at all... It had a specific point and that point was made in the statement. When you are on the very edge of the envelope, the ONLY thing you can do is stand the bike up a little. You use fuel or brakes in any sort of a meaningful fashion and you will overcome the limit of adhesion. This means that HP is useless when at max lean angle. As you bring it up, you can feed in the power, but I'm sure you know quite well, that you need to be a good ways from max lean angle before you can put 180HP down... The configuration of engine in the Buell allows you to put just a tad more power down at the same lean angle though... More like a "big bang" IL4. | ||
| Fogal |
Can you buy a better corner-carving production bike for what a Buell will cost ya??? I’d say that qualifies it as a true sport bike. Ah yeah, any Jap Litre superbike, any Jap 600 Supersport, RGV 250, Aprilia 250, Any Supermotard. You think Buells can take corners any better then a jap sport bike? Thats just buells marketing hype. I love my buell as much as anyone but they are not as good at any japper in any performance category. What they are good at is being unique and turning heads and bringing a bad a$$ sound to the streets. (Message edited by fogal on May 23, 2005) | ||
| Metalstorm |
Just so y'all know, this thread is not completely useless. I've learned more in the last couple days reading this thread than I did in the last couple years. Ok, that may be quite an exaggeration but it sure makes me appreciate my bike more & more every time I read this. I'm not a racing fan, I don't care what can beat what since it means nothing to a guy who rides only on the streets. All I know is that my Buell is fun. The only thing I judge a bike by is it's "fun factor" & my baby has it in spades! I humbly suggest we stop comparing all these different bikes on the track & start comparing them in the real world. I mean they are sold as "street bikes" right? Even the inline fours, correct? | ||
| Thepup |
The Spaceship is getting close,better drink that Kool-Aid.BadS1 you are the moron here.Oldog,guess what,in a XB you have to split the cases to work on the tranny,maybe you need to read the manual.Also I did respond to Court,and as for learning something,I have found out that certain ppl on this board live in a fantasy world.Norris,looks like there is 2 threads now,XB12s transmission seized and 1st to 2nd=Not,check those threads out,mine started the same way. (Message edited by thepup on May 23, 2005) | ||
| Fogal |
Your comments that Buells are inferior to 600s and are not true sports bikes, gets under my skin. Is it not buell that refer themselves as sportfighter or something? They are naked bikes and half naked, they are not full faired RR sport bikes in that way. Buell itself created the term sport fighter in order to distance itself from the RR market. Buells are better compared to speed triples, super dukes, falco's, TL1000's, FZ1 Fazers, MT01 Yamaha's, MV Brutales, these are naked bikes. Slot the buell in with the litre RR bikes and its under powered and handles just the same as the liters, Slot it in with the 600's and its underpowered and corners just the same. Slot it in with the nakeds and its underpowered but handles better then most. One thing about the buell compared to the jappers is the finish is no where near as good as the jappers. The parts backup is no where near as good as the jappers. the quality is no where near as good as the jappers. The reputation preceding the buell is no where near as good as the jappers. The buell is good at making noise and turning heads but if you take off the blinding love for your buell and truly compare it to other bikes it is lacking in many areas. Can someone name a bike in the buells class that has less power? a bike that you would qualify as competition for sales in buells market. | ||
| Diablobrian |
Oldog, I accept your apology, and I took your post in the tone it was intended. I just get upset when people think building a machine, any machine, is as easy as reading a book (or a web page). The real world has a tendency to put the arrogant in their place. | ||
| Metalstorm |
"One thing about the buell compared to the jappers is the finish is no where near as good as the jappers. The parts backup is no where near as good as the jappers. the quality is no where near as good as the jappers. The reputation preceding the buell is no where near as good as the jappers." This is more like it. Although I don't agree with most or any of that (I am a bit biased I reckon), at least it's a more "real world" comparison. Something an average rider would consider more than who finished in what place on what bike in what race. | ||
| Thepup |
Fogal,you are in for it now,they don't take criticism well here or perceived criticism. | ||
| Fogal |
pup unlike a small clique here i am not interested in the popularity struggle that constantly goes on. I call it as i see it. Alot of the guys that comment in the XB area dont even have an XB they just like to jump in and kick guys when there simply voicing there opinion. I have an XB and i am not blind about the past buell problems and i dont bury my head in the sand about the new ones going on. I have asked myself many questions about the buell and too this day i still dont believe the overall package is better then any Jap bike. Having said that i dont think the italian or english bikes measure up to the japs either. When it comes to quality, build, materials, spare parts, life span, reliability, service and aftermarket parts the japs have everyone beaten hands down. I know most wont agree and i dont expect them to but there is too sides to every story and i figured i would add my point of view. I dont think the buell is that great in the performance stakes and i dont think that the front brake is very good, i hate the constant head wobbles, i hate the dodgy transmission that false neutrals and i hate the fact that the belt can and will snap when im out in the middle of knowhere. Its the price you pay for the advantage of being different in every sense. (Message edited by fogal on May 23, 2005) | ||
| Metalstorm |
Some of us are open to criticism. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I will never ever criticize anyone for voicing theirs. But you are correct. There are many passionate people who do take it as a direct insult to themselves. What can you do? People will be people and no matter where you go, there you are.  I don't think anyone's right or wrong in this. It's really just a big perception thing. Unfortunetly, different perceptions have been the start of most wars. It's really sad. We all have so much in common as riders yet we let little differences of opinion wedge us apart.  | ||
| Thepup |
I was content with my bike,I loved it.This last problem had me looking at Japanese bikes and it really made me aware of the options.I always knew my bike wasn't the fastest and maybe not the most reliable,but it was mine and I loved it. | ||
| Fogal |
The Pup - "Buells do get their asses kicked by 600 sportbikes" No they don't. YOU Do. Quite blaming your incompetence on your bike please. Over the 1/4 mile? 600 RR will smoke a buell out of the box any day. On a race circuit it would depend on the rider but the same rider on an out of the box Cbr 600 and an out of the box XB9 would cut faster laps on a 600 no doubt about it. If anything the stock dunlops that the buells have would be a major factor. Also the 600 has slipper clutch, better front brakes, more power, higher top speed. Equal to similar in and out corner speeds. Better/smoother gearbox. The RR's are just that RR's the buell is not an RR, in stock form the buell will never better an RR at what an RR was built for. Forget riders and variables that have nothing to do with the stock performance of a bike. Look at the bikes on paper and the buell loses. By the way its Quit not Quite. (Message edited by fogal on May 23, 2005) (Message edited by fogal on May 23, 2005) | ||
| Uncle_bob |
Cycle World recently had a special issue on the news stand called Sportbike 2005. It road tested and compared the Buell XB12R with the following bikes. BMW 1200S, Moto Guzzi V11 Coppa Italia and the MZ 1000S. The headline was Alternative twin-cylinder tire shredders that have "it". I believe this is where the Buell motorcycles belong as far as a category. Fun, yet different bikes that have decent performance. I don't think our precious Buells were ever meant to compete with 1 liter racebikes in street clothing. Is that suppose to be a bad thing? On the reliability note..... I'm sorry some of you on this thread have had issues with your bikes. It sucks to be making payments on something that doesn't work. But, please don't throw Buell under the bus as being the only bike with issues. My bosses husband has a BMW LT1200 that dropped it's shaft drive on the way to Indiana. Turns out, hundred of Beemers have had this issue. BMW has done nothing about it. My brothers Yamaha Roadstar had it's transmission replaced from the dealership due to a recall along with every other Roadstar built from 1999 to 2003. He got lucky. Even the Germans and Japanese have brain farts. If you think you have a lemon or no longer like the bike then get rid of the freakin' thing. Meanwhile, until my transmission grenades, I'll keep having fun with my XB by beating up on Jap bikes in the twisties. | ||
| Fogal |
I still think that the ducati's are the worst bike for breakdowns and malfunctions then any other species | ||
| Fogal |
Calm down its going to be alright. | ||
| CJXB |
By registering for participation in this Buell enthusiasts' discussion board you hereby agree that you will not post profane language, nor will you engage in personal attacks or in derision of other users of the board. You agree to treat with respect and courtesy all members of this online Buell enthusiasts' community. You guys need to lighten up and stop getting personal please !! Not to mention how silly and childish it is calling each other names like morons, is that actually accomplishing anything ?!! (Message edited by cj_xb on May 23, 2005) | ||
| Johnnylunchbox |
I have an 1989 Alfa Romeo Graduate. It pops, burbles, makes some smoke now and again, has a flexible chassis, and the top sometimes leaks. It is less reliable than a toyota tercel and probably won't run as long. It is less comforatble than a toyota tercel. A slammed civic could most likely beat it in a race. But you know what? My alfa has more soul in it's exhaust note, that in any part of that civic or tercel. So if you want to argue that a "liter" bike is better just because you can quote numbers from a database and specs, then you just don't get it. I like my Japanese bikes, but I also like my Buells. | ||
| Brucelee |
"I love my buell as much as anyone but they are not as good at any japper in any performance category" At least with me as the rider, my XB is significantly faster in the turns than my 02 Ninja 600 was. The 600 wailed WAY up top in the RPM range but was a total dog down low, you know, where us NON RACERS actually spend most of our time. | ||
| Uwgriz |
I'm sure I'm going to regret posting in this thread, but I had to address this: but the same rider on an out of the box Cbr 600 and an out of the box XB9 would cut faster laps on a 600 no doubt about it. In a stock racing class, the XB9 runs as an ultra-lightweight where the 600 runs as a middle weight (two classes up) so yes, the same rider would put down better lap times on the 600. But you can't really compare the two. That's like saying that same rider would put down even better lap times on a 1000 so the 600 must be an inferior bike. Apples and oranges. As far as FX, the XB12 runs as a lightweight in stock trim so if you want to look at it that way, regardless of modifications (and all FX bikes are modified), the XB has to jump a class in addition to everything else. So as far as the Buell getting its ••• kicked by 600s, 21 guys on 600s couldn't say that last year at VIR while only two guys could (Duc finished third). | ||
| Ronlv |
i got buell because i dont like long forks, and i wanted a harley street carver and so far i have not been beaten by anything, car or bike while street carving this is the coolest STREET bike i have ever owned if i wanted a race bike i would have gotten a r1 or something, but i dont race and i am not going to race everyone stops to see what it is and likes it, its a conversation starter for sure when i rode from vegas to laughlin riverrun with my freind and his cbr1000, i smoked him street carving thru traffic, kept up with him on the straights(we were doing 130)and smoked him thru the canyon, the only time he could do anything is when there was a straight clear open road ahead and when we got there he felt out of place on his jap bike jap bikes are for japs :-) except for my dirt bikes i like diffrent | ||
| Johncr250 |
This is some thread! I love my Buell too, but you must be in fantasy land if you think an stock XB can beat a stock 600 or 1000 Replica Racer! Even a 600 will crush an XB in 1/4 mile, top speed, braking, or any other perfomrance catagory. A 1000 or gsxr 750 will blow the Buells off the road. My gsxr 1000 pulls harder in 4th gear than my friends XB9 pulls in first. But the XB is still a cool bike. The Buells are great streetbikes that are different, the big four jap bikes are race bikes that you can ride on the street. Ride what you like and have fun, the only street or track a Buell is gonna beat a 600 or 1000 around is a Go-cart track or in your dreams. | ||
| Norrisperformance |
Mr Fogul Smokie, Fogal, Stavross, Peel, Aussie_buell_riderz, Maverickbuell, Juggalo081 Who every you are today. Please check this link out, and get educated. Performance Bike magazine tested the following bikes, and the XB12 had the best corner speed and times. Read it and weep ! Ducati 749s GSXR 600 ZX10R ZXR400 Husqvarna SM450-R Buell XB12R www.buell.com/en_us/news_events/inthenews.asp (Message edited by norrisperformance on May 23, 2005) | ||
| Spatten1 |
On the street or track corner speed is not always indicative of the fastest way to get around. With a powerful engine you have the option of diving in deep, squaring off the corner and squirting out. I'd say that in Europe where the tracks are perfectly smooth and camber is perfect that corner speed is more applicable than anywhere else. I haven't seen Nicky hanging the rear out as much as he used to, as it just wasn't paying off for him there, but on our tracks it did. I may be way off on this one, but that is what I think I've observed. SP | ||
| Spike |
Performance Bikes disagrees with you. They put the XB12R against a GSX-R600, a ZX-10R, a 749S, a SM450R (motard), and a ZXR400. They datalogged each bike's time and speed through a series of corners. At the end of the article they take the fastest pass by each rider on each bike for all three corners and add them together to get a total time for each bike. The Firebolt has the fastest time by over a full second. Here are a couple quotes from the article: "it's apex speed is at least 2mph up on the Suzuki" "The Buell feels particularly good through the complex, the fairly high, close bars letting you through it in hard, and it's so secure over on its ear, even with the pegs touching down" "it's short and goes where you want it to" "the bottom-end grunt of the Harley lets it pull third and fire out to the hairpin on a wave of torque" "But the bike I felt best on leant over was the Buell. It wasn't the quickest steering, but once in a bend the Firebolt felt super stable." "The Firebolt is absolutely flying, just touching down the tip of the hero blob" "It's just so stable leaning over. It doesn't drop in as easily as the big ZX but once it's over it gives me so much confidence, and you know if it hits a bump or something you're not going to get knocked offline." "But the itsy-bitsy Buell with its bonkers GP geometry is fastest round here." "But the diminutive Firebolt would be my choice on a super-twisty track." "the Buell is just as good as it was at Croft, holding a line and inspiring us all to push harder." This one is my personal favorite: "So here's the deal: if you want the scientifically measured quickest bike through corners take the Firebolt" So, care to dismiss the datalogging equipment as being a part of Buell's "marketing hype"? **Edit: Norris beat me to it by ~23 minutes, I should have been faster with the quotes. Great minds think alike! Mike Luddy, Jr. '04 XB12R (Message edited by Spike on May 23, 2005) | ||
| Spike |
Be careful with statements like that . . . there's a certain someone here who likes to take statements like that and refute them with physics and calculations that demonstrate available torque in different gears. Hopefully he'll do that for us in this case. Mike | ||
| M1combat |
No one says an XB will smoke a litre bike... (Except on twisty roads , and it WILL). A 600... they're pretty comparable... Really. I know the Buell is down on power and all that, but it's a lot easier to ride it fast. I think that maybe some of the people who are un-willing to accept that are people who don't really know what a good curvy road is... We're talking very twisty mountain roads. It's no use twisting a throttle and hitting 150 in a straight line... That will just get you thrown in jail... Around here, on the Spars the cops will literally tell you (as I've been told) that they don't CARE how fast you run the spars (about 3-400 turns in 11 miles) but just DO NOT cross the double yellow... About 80% or the Spars is corner. The Buell is faster through the corners than just about EVERY other bike made (It's been proven by EVERYONE that's ever decided to do a real test so don't even argue it...). That means the Buell is faster for 80% of the road. The rest of the road where the Litre bikes can actually use their power aren't long enough to make up the difference. They just aren't. Now, take the other side of the Spars... A buell would have a very difficult time keep ing up with a 600... That's more about power/acceleration and outright speed... Sooo... It depends on the track... "Even a 600 will crush an XB in 1/4 mile, top speed, braking, or any other perfomrance catagory." Ummm, No. It depends on the road. If you want to be a scpec sheet racer, go ahead, but when you put the Buell in it's element (A tight twisty road or race course, The Buell will be competitive with just about anything. You don't seem to understand motorcycles very well... When you are leaned over you can't use all the power available to you. Until you get upright enough to be able to use more than 90 HP or so, you don't have any more power than a Buell. If the next corner comes up quick, you NEVER have any more power than a Buell (a little less actually due to the power delivery of a V-Twin and how it works with the tires...). Therefor, Where I like to ride, The Buell has enough power and handling to beat JUST ABOUT ANY other bike. I'm NOT saying that the Buell is the fastest bike out there or that it's "The Best" or that it's "Perfect". Only that it does what it was designed to do better than most any other bike... | ||
| Doughnut |
 Why the pissing match here? If you dislike Buells, why do you have one and/or hang on a Buell site? You know the people here like Buell, so why come and start bad mouthing the bike? No, my Buell is not a R1. If I wanted an R1 I would have gotten one. I got my Buell knowing what it was and what it was not. SO WHAT if someone's 600 can beat me. I bet their dad can beat up my dad as well. SO WHAT. I love my bike. I hope you love yours. If you don't, find one you do and get it, but please don't tell me that mine bike is inferior. Are others' lives so trouble free that this argument is such a big deal? I really envy you if this is so. My comments are not directed at anyone specific. I just don't get what the big issue is with this thread. | ||
| Spatten1 |
I think this thread is interesting because we all buy bikes for different reasons, but we all own Buells. There are huge disagreements over whether the Buell is the ultimate tool for different types of riding, but we all ride Buells, nonetheless. I hope my XB eventually makes me as comfortable in corners as my ZX9R did, and getting clip-ons and dialing in the suspension will be part of the process. However, the XB is definitely the most fun bike I've ever owned, especially at slower speeds. | ||
| Brucelee |
As usual, Doughnut has it exactly right! "Why the pissing match here? If you dislike Buells, why do you have one and/or hang on a Buell site? You know the people here like Buell, so why come and start bad mouthing the bike? No, my Buell is not a R1. If I wanted an R1 I would have gotten one. I got my Buell knowing what it was and what it was not. SO WHAT if someone's 600 can beat me. I bet their dad can beat up my dad as well. SO WHAT. I love my bike. I hope you love yours. If you don't, find one you do and get it, but please don't tell me that mine bike is inferior. Are others' lives so trouble free that this argument is such a big deal? I really envy you if this is so. My comments are not directed at anyone specific. I just don't get what the big issue is with this thread." | ||
| Norrisperformance |
Spatten1 My last bike was a 01 ZX9R also. And I'll have to say it was a great bike. But it was in no way, for me as confident inspiring in the corners as my XB12R. And the XB is so much easier to turn in and change my line if I need to. Could it be the riding position on you XB9S takes a different approach and riding style. The riding position on the XBR is very close to the ZX9R. All this being said, I had the ZX9R on the track several times but have not been on the track yet with the XB. And it’s hard to put a bike though the real test on the street. PS: I’ve seen 751 motorsports, but never stopped there. |
