| Author | Message | ||
     Midknyte |
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| Jwz7 |
m1 how come buells don't race in superbike open classes?especially in europe?i watched some races about 2 weeks ago and they were racing in italy i think,but it was an open class super bike race.and as you know buells are even more popular overseas then here.is it the rules or is it they just can't compete with the bigger inline 4's?the duc's didn't even finish in the top five and i rememder when duc's used to dominate those races.i love my buell and you know that,but it is true you only see buells racing in the fx series,why not other ama series races?why not in europe against the bigger inl-4 over there?i'm asking you because you are more informed then me on the rules and regulations (Message edited by jwz7 on May 19, 2005) | ||
| Diablobrian |
Sleeper_777 You offended me with the one leg bit  The fact is it is hard to find and buy a BAD motorcycle these days. Most are very refined and highly capable. What we have a shortage of is riders with the ability to exploit and appreciate the capabilities of these machines. There are far too many spec sheet riders and bench racers. This is the world we live in. We have to make the best of it.  | ||
| M1combat |
Simply because the rules wouldn't allow for the displacement needed, and it wouldn't be economically feasable (not that racing really ever is). You would need a LOT of displacement to make the power required at the RPM's you would be constrained to with the pushrod setup. I've never said that the IL4 isn't a superior "race" type engine... Just that the XB chassis is superior to the others. Give that chassis enough engine at the right weight and I'm very certain that the Buell could win in any class that's based on production frames. I'll also say that the XB engine is superior to an IL4 for street use. I'm not saying the XB engine is the best engine for street use, but only that it's better than an IL4. When comparing the XB engine to the SV engine, the SV doesn't have enough of an RPM advantage to outweigh the displacement disadvantage. It certainly has a weight advantage though... Think about this... The XB engine is ~50lbs heavier than the R1 engine. At first that doesn't sound good for Buell, but the XB weighs within a few pounds of an R1. This means that the chassis is 50lbs lighter... Of course, this is all in stock trim and as I recall includes the weight of the engines only, but it could have been the engines and cooling systems (fan and oil cooler I would guees in the case of the XB). (Message edited by m1combat on May 19, 2005) | ||
| Vonsliek |
one things for certain .. if eric(K) gets the right backing & engine, NOHING will beat a buell on the roads. i will try a liter bike next year, just to SEE if all the hype is just that. my buell is unmodded & while i wished it spooled faster & had more snap, at lower speeds the torque is the schizzle!! that means - ebonicly challenged readers - it ••••••• rocks! thank •••• for those little red censor dots!! i love their little ••••••• hearts!!  | ||
| Thepup |
Tuscon,you are right,I am not going to put the purple nikes and robes on and wait for the big Buell spaceship behind the Hale-Bopp comet.Fact one Buell has not won a FX race against Japanese 600's.Fact two Buell is allowed unlimited engine modifications the 600's are not.Fact 3 Buells could not compete in any other class of racing against the Japanese bikes.I guess in this starnge Buell world ,if you do not believe that the Buells are not the bestest bikes in the world y,you are bashing them.There are alot more things in this world to get emotional about,a bike isn't one of them. | ||
| BadS1 |
Let it go Pup.I don't care what you think of your BUELL.Sell it trade it in.....whatever.Do me a favor though get your facts straight on the 600's in FX.They are highly....highly modified.I don't know where you get your info from but they are wrong to. | ||
| Tommy_2stroke |
Pup: What the hell is a "pipple"? Is it like a pointy nipple? | ||
| Firebolt428 |
Pup, besides Honda's big budget for this class has anyone else won it? So to say Buell has never won a FX race is true but who else has besides honda with there trillion dollar budget? | ||
| M1combat |
"Fact one Buell has not won a FX race against Japanese 600's." You are correct. It's the end of the world. You're obviously very young. You don't seem to have fully grasped the value of money. Honda has LOTS of it... Independent Harley dealerships do NOT. "Fact two Buell is allowed unlimited engine modifications the 600's are not." Well, that would actually be two facts if you had your head pulled out of your... Oh sorry, This is a family oriented site. I'll let that one go. In any case... Only one of those facts are true. The 600's are indeed NOT allowed unlimited mods. Neither are the Buells though. "Fact 3 Buells could not compete in any other class of racing against the Japanese bikes." Hengh!? That's because it's against the rules. If it weren't against the rules and the rules that were in place were fair then the Buell could compete. That's what rules, regulations and fairness in racing are all about. Look at the European GT Championship... Five or six different engine sizes (from 4L to 7L and that's just in the GT class) and it's GREAT racing... Get a clue please. "I guess in this starnge Buell world ,if you do not believe that the Buells are not the bestest bikes in the world y,you are bashing them." That's not the case asshat... unless of course if you pick up on the fact that the statement you made is a double negative  . I've stated in this thread that Buells aren't a perfect bike... Why do you ignore statements like that and only absorb statements that you feel are derogatory towards you and the way you see life? It's because you have issues my friend... The FACTS are that you need to educate yourself on the finer points of racing AND starting an international money making company. How much did Honda race in the beginning? "There are alot more things in this world to get emotional about,a bike isn't one of them." One - Speak for yourself. Two - The proper term would be "passsionate", not "emotional". Please go get a clue... Then come back. Just because you can't see what the Buell is doesn't mean that it's anything less... | ||
| Shred |
O.K! This has been very educational. Everyone come on down and bring your bikes. So many tracks to choose from and Hwy 60 and Hwy 129 near Suches G.A isn't far. Lets have some fun! | ||
| Midknyte |
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| Thepup |
M! you may want to read the rules on the AMA website.Twin- cylinder aircooled motorcycles:unlimited engine modifications,that is straight from the AMA rulebook.No,you get emotional,like I am talking about a member of your family,you may want to come out of your moms basement every now and then.You tell me what rules are unfair that keeps Buell out of superbike.Look at the times for Supersport which is 600's and look at the times for FX,600's in Supersport are running the same times as FX and not just the Hondas,Make sure you read the rulebook ,M1, unlimited engine mods. | ||
| BadS1 |
Pup FX on par with Superbike.So what are you getting at.You must not follow to closely or understand why those times are so close to one another.Can I ask why you are still here???M1 let this guy go.Pup go join another board. | ||
| Daves |
While the Buells haven't beat Honda yet, they have beat an awful lot of other 600s in these races. They haven't come in last. This season is off to a bad start, wait 2 more weeks for Road America. | ||
| BadS1 |
Can't wait Dave see ya there. | ||
| M1combat |
"unlimited engine modifications,that is straight from the AMA rulebook." I'll give you that one... Well, partially ... I'm pretty sure they have a displacement limit . The rules that won't allow them to run with superbikes are that there aren't any rules to accommodate the air cooled pushrod twins... FX is the only "premier" class that allows what is needed for a Buell to compete. Also... As I recall, the FX Buells would have qualified upper mid-pack (like rows three through six) in the superbike class last year. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. No problem Dana... This is the one subject in which I don't mind feeding trolls. One note about Dave's comment too ... The Buells haven't beat "Honda" themselves, as in the factory racing effort, but they have beat many privateer Hondas and some factory bikes. They were quite competitive in FX (and will be again for the rest of this year and next and so on...) and if Superbikes allowed Air-cooled twins with unlimited modifications, they would be nearly as competitive there as well. More of an "also ran" team at this point, but certainly not the tail draggers you seem to think they would be. You don't seem to grasp the fact that HP is COMPLETELY useless while at max lean angle... Due to this fact, handling becomes MORE important than power as long as you aren't TOO far off the mark. That situation also sets up good battles at "balanced" tracks. The IL4's would have the advantage on "straight" tracks, where the V-Twins would have the advantage on the tight technical tracks. "No,you get emotional,like I am talking about a member of your family" Uhhh, you are . | ||
| Eeeeek |
Wow, M1, you are really deep in the Kool-Aid. "... and if Superbikes allowed Air-cooled twins with unlimited modifications, they would be nearly as competitive there as well. More of an "also ran" team at this point, but certainly not the tail draggers you seem to think they would be." You put Mladin or Hodgeson or anyone you wish on an unlimited Buell and you would still not see a top ten finish in SUPERBIKE. My, god, you're talking 200 hp bikes here! Your statement that HP is useless is way off the mark. Obvioulsy, it means something because both Zemke and DuHamel were faster on their more powerful bikes. Had your theory played out, Hodgeson should have won at Sears Point, one of the most technical if not the most technical track, with the 999. He didn't and I don't think anyone will stand beside you and say that an XB is a better bike than a 999. Vik | ||
| M1combat |
Holy Cow... Who's deep in the Cool-Aid? I didn't say that the Buell is better than a 999... Anywhere... I didn't say that HP is useless... I didn't say they would/could get a top ten finish... I said they wouldn't be the tail draggers that some people seem to think they would. I said they would be "nearly" as competitive there as they are in FX. As I recall, the FX Buells would have qualified mid-pack in last years superbike lineup (or was it Supersport? I'm pretty sure it was Superbikes). Please read what I type . Thanks. /EDIT - Although I DO think the XB rolling chassis is superior to the 999 chassis... (Message edited by M1Combat on May 19, 2005) | ||
| Daves |
Hey Vik, nice of you to drop by! | ||
| BadS1 |
Eeeek 180hp bikes.But I have seen a good rider win with a lot less HP in a Pro thunder class.That would of been Michael Barnes.He took a 85-90 hp SV 650 and won by almost 42 seconds if I remember right.But I do agree a Buell couldn't do Superbike and be competitive.Oh Barnes did that at Daytona this year. (Message edited by bads1 on May 19, 2005) | ||
| Eeeeek |
Sure, the FX FRONT RUNNERS would have been in the third row. You also have to remember that the privateers that Buell was beating were just that, weekend warriors on near stock bikes while Buell had some hired gun riders on HEAVILY modified bikes. Regardless, there weren't too many factory teams in FX last year and the Buells just weren't putting in championship performances. So I guess your statement is true. The XB's would be nearly as competetive in Superbike as they are in FX. Seeing as how Buell has zero points in FX, that's very accurate. Vik | ||
| BadS1 |
Eeeek are you nuts??? Heres last year. Miguel Duhamel... Team Honda Jake Zemke ... Team Honda Vincent Haskovec.... Tam Emgo Suzuki Alex Gobert ..... American Honda Erion Racing Jason Pridmore ..... American Suzuki Doug Chandler .... Ducati Theres six heavily sponsored team with awesome riders that Buell infact didn't do bad against them last year. | ||
| Eeeeek |
Let's look at that list, BadS1: Miguel Duhamel... Team Honda Factory Rider, check Jake Zemke ... Team Honda Factory Rider, check Vincent Haskovec.... Tam Emgo Suzuki Emgo. Pretty far from a factory team, labeled as a privateer Alex Gobert ..... American Honda Erion Racing Factory rider, check Jason Pridmore ..... American Suzuki The "Team" he rode for folded 1/3 pf the way through the season and he financed most of the rest of the year with his STAR school until that ran out of money, at which point Jordan gifted him some money to finish the season. Hardly factory support. Doug Chandler .... Ducati Entered the season at race 5. How's the Buells do? Overall Points Rider Points(position) 13 122 M. Barnes 23 (8) 21 (10) 22 (9) 20 (11) 25 (6) 0 (31) 11 (20) 0 (26) 0 (25) 15 114 M. Ciccotto 20 (11) 22 (9) 0 (25) 24 (7) 0 (18) 21 (10) 0 (25) 27 (4) So, that's an average of a 15th place finish. Not exactly good; but, much better than I could do. Vik | ||
| BadS1 |
Vik Buell also started what in the 3rd race of the year...correct me if I'm wrong?? The real bad finishes were either DNF's or DNS's other then that they were right there with them with only about 10% of there budget. | ||
| Doughnut |
Please fill in, what is DNF, DNS? I am trying to follow. | ||
| BadS1 |
Did not Finish...Did not Start. | ||
| Spatten1 |
Vik, Chill out, the Buells only had 1300cc to work with, cut them some slack. Of course, it is impressive that any Japanese bike with all that inferior chassis geometry can even keep up with a Buell. | ||
| Spatten1 |
OK, everybody flame me. However, I'd appreciate comments more from people that have actually put some real time in on a Japanese sportbike riding hard. | ||
| Doughnut |
Ok.   (Message edited by doughnut on May 19, 2005) |
