| Author |
Message |
    
Davegess
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 09:58 pm: | 
|
No, Dave, there were two RW-750s. You should know that! The one that was "built in 1995" was actually a rebuild of an original. The guys just went and got back the parts!
That is true, I should have said 1 sold. |
Davegess
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 10:35 pm: |
|
some kind of a go-cart?
Newfie the SCCA D-sport race car might be offended by that remark Seriously several of the RW motors were used in D-sport racing a class in Sports Car Club of America that featured pure race cars with all 4 wheels covered. The A-Sport cars of that period had big v-8's the D-sport class had 750 cc two strokes. When Erik started eith these engines the engine of choice was the old Suzuki water buffalo, a 3 cylinder, water cooled two stroke from a street bike. Big, heavy and underpowered. The Buell was perfect for the class. Unfortunatly several folks had tried the engine in it's Barton days and they were fast but blew up a lot. By the time Erik stepped in and got that fixed Kohler was making a modular C and D sport engine that was pretty well developed and, it biggest advantage, was usesd by Jim-Jeff? something Miller the class champion.
Miller was a Kohler employee and managed to get their small engine divison involved in his racing by conviincing them that they could make ans sell these engines profittably. In a contest between one guy in Milwaukee and one of the largest companies in Wisconsin guess who won.
One fellow did persist with the engine and had some sucess but his car was pretty old and I think he may have had a bad crash and kind of faded away. I could be wrong on this.
The engine also saw success in a sidecar at the Isle of Man, winning one of the two sidecar races. |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 11, 2005 - 01:03 am: |
|
Correct me if I'm wrong but the Sparton engine was basically a water cooled top end sat on the bottom end of a Suzuki GT 500 twin cylinder once air cooled two stroke.
The RW 750 Barton engine was a water cooled square four - basically a direct copy of Suzuki's own GP 500 engine but with larger capacity based on cylinders from or either copied off Suzuki's GT750 (Water Buffalo) .
I also heard back in those days lots of cheating went on and even the likes of Suzuki didn't stick rigorously to 500cc!
The two guys that brought the RW type motor into the world, Barry Heart and Ian Dyson, sold everything they had to Erik.
Barry Heart has not been heard of in the industry ever since. Ian Dyson on the other hand runs a very successful company manufacturing transmission units. Nova Transmissions specialize in manufacturing modern transmission units for veteran and vintage bikes. They are also leading the field in design and manufacture of specialist transmission units used in Lotus 7 and similar style kit and replica cars that utilize motorcycle engines such as the Hayabusa, Fireblade and Kawasaki ZX 7 and 9's as their power plants.
Please someone (Dave) correct me if I'm wrong.
Rocket
(Message edited by rocketman on May 11, 2005) |
Steveshakeshaft
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 11, 2005 - 03:51 am: |
|
I recall the Sparton two strokes were three cylinder water cooled two strokes in 350cc and 500cc. The top end was bespoke Hart designed, but the bottom ends were based on the Suzuki GT380 air cooled triple units, not the 500cc twin. I'm struggling to remember exactly more, but I think they used Yamaha TZ250 connecting rods on a modified Suzuki crank. The "Sparton" racers were a Barry Hart engine in a Spondon chassis- hence "Sparton". I seem to recall that the 350 and 500cc triple Spartons of the day were nice bikes but always struggled against the 350cc TZ's. I wonder where they all are now? I don't know how many Hart triples were built.
The square four Hart designed bike was featured in the film "Silver Dream Racer" starring David Essex. |
Davegess
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 11, 2005 - 10:44 am: |
|
The square four Hart designed bike was featured in the film "Silver Dream Racer" starring David Essex.
I have a copy of that, pretty bad movie.
Rocket, baring any correction from Anon I think you have the Barton setup correct.
The Barton motor was very powerful but had a really awful powerband and lots of little  problems that caused them to grenade on a regular basis.
Erik managed to work through them one at a time but it took forever since his only testing time came on race weekends.
The proof that it would work came from the IOM TT race, the performamce of the RW when it finally did run and how fast the race car guy was.
If time had not run out, one maybe two more years of the AMA F1 racing class and the story would be different. And we might not be riding the cool bikes we ride today.
More details and photos at www.davegess.com |
Lake_bueller
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 11, 2005 - 11:13 am: |
|
Back on subject....I'd agree that an ST model would not be a sound business decision for BMC. That doesn't mean I can't get enough of my 1998 S3T. While it doesn't have the "creature comforts" of the BMW, it has heart and soul. Nobody looks twice at a Beemer, but everyone takes a second glance at my S3T (and usually a 3rd or 4th look at my White Lightning).
Will I every replace my S3T.....only when I can no longer ride. |
Whodom
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 11, 2005 - 11:50 am: |
|
There seems to be universal agreement that the S3T's didn't sell well, but did this make them "losers" for Buell? There are not THAT many unique parts to an S3: bodywork, fairing, instrument panel, tank, bags and bag frame. Anything else? (I don't think that they had unique frames, but I could be wrong.)
I can see that if you had to do massive tooling to produce a near-totally unique bike there'd be no chance for a new sport-tourer. But if you can mostly use parts from your existing bikes, it would be a lot easier to recoup the investment selling a small number.
That said, there doesn't appear to be any easy way to stretch/modify an XB into a serious sport tourer. However, if they do introduce a new, larger bike (M2 replacement? adventure tourer?) adapting it into a sport tourer would be a lot easier. |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 03:25 am: |
|
Oops!!!!
Rocket
(Message edited by rocketman on May 12, 2005) |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 03:29 am: |
|
This is indeed off topic so to quickly conclude.......
Steve I believe you have the Sparton right. Sorry for the confusion. I posted a pic or three on BadWeB back around early 2000 or 2001 of a Sparton that was sat on Nova Transmissions stand at the Autosport Int show.
Here's one of Nova's tranny units for the little Super 7 type cars.
Rocket |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 10:12 am: |
|
The square four was a similar layout to the Suzuki, with rotary valves, separate cranks and a jackshaft between them. but did not have any parts interchangeability other than the shift forks. So, I don't think it counts as a copy. The cylinders were totally unique, with nothing in common with the Water Buffalo or the RG 500. The GT750 was a three cylinder BTW, with piston port cylinders as opposed to a four cylinder with rotary valves.
It actually used more Yamaha parts than Suzuki ones, because the connecting rods and bearings as well as the piston rings and pins were Yamaha TZ-750. Come to think of it, the clutch friction plates were also Yamaha TZ 750. Of course the steel plates were different.
But unique parts there were aplenty. Actually that was one of the great weaknesses. In the desire to be unique, the lack of parts interchangeability made the task of building and racing these in small numbers a monstrous one.
Scuff a cylinder? Go cast a new one, get it machined, plated and honed. A crank pin? Get a chunk of the right material (no, not the material Barry Hart used!), precision machine it to near size, hard chrome plate it, then centerless grind it to a tenth... A transmission gear? Call your friendly neighborhood hobber... But wait weren't we scheduled to race this weekend? Why is the rider running the milling machine? |
Davegess
| | Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 10:26 am: |
|
Why is the rider running the milling machine?
For the same reason he is now running a motorcycle company, nobody else would do it quite right! |
Dano_12s
| | Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 10:33 am: |
|
Sure would nice if H.D./Buell had a S/T version of something.Seems like it wouldn't be too costly in R.+D.work in making a fairing work at 75mph-120mph[occasionaly],rider+pass. all day comfort,removable luggage,just a dream????? |
Whodom
| | Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 11:25 am: |
|
This thread seems to be headed towards Buell building a new sport tourer with a state-of-the-art square 4 two-stroke in a stretched XB frame...
 |
Sandblast
| | Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 12:32 pm: |
|
Awesome! |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Friday, May 13, 2005 - 02:31 am: |
|
Thanks for the accurate info Anony. Please accept my apologies for making a poor job of trying to remember my two-stroke Suzukis. Hell you wouldn't believe I owned nearly every damn one of 'em at sometime or another.
As for my Buell history - I admit I'm somewhat rusty these days so i'm off to stand in the corner and revise.
Rocket |
Steveshakeshaft
| | Posted on Friday, May 13, 2005 - 03:35 am: |
|
Mr Gess, you really are going to have to get this book written. I'm looking forward to the read. |
|
